I have only this moment realised that the prayer is referencing the xtian communion giving of bread symbolism, and not just randomly demanding food as if the writer was hungry
Is it, though? Or is it saying “Give us our basic staple needs”? It would be useful if a theologian could chip in on the dates, but I suspect this prayer predates bready communion
From my brief and poorly remembered Christian education, there were at least 3 occasions where the Big J handed out food and drink, and made explicit connection between his god powers, and the catering. So the idea was there in some form from at least the writing of the gospels. But yeah, it would be good to hear from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.
Historically? All of this is at least disputed. Within the church canon? “[Jesus] broke the bread, gave it to his disciples and said ‘Take this, all of you and eat it, for it is my body, which will be given up for you.’ When [the last] supper had ended he took the cup. Again he gave thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples and said 'Take this, all of you, and drink from it. For it is my blood, the blood of the new covenant which will be shed for you and for all so that sin may be forgiven.”
Theologically speaking it’s not a matter of debate at all that communion predates Christ’s death and therefore the founding of the Church or the establishment of the Lord’s prayer.
Communion is the Christianization of the Judaic holiday of Passover. The referenced verses are literally a group of Jews celebrating Passover, on Passover. Not only do the forms of communion predate Christianity, they predate Christ. If you read a few verses before that, possibly depending on which gospel you’re reading, it literally says that.
I’ve heard this as a reference to the bread that was given to the Israelites in the wilderness - manna. In Exodus, the Israelites are instructed to gather and prepare it each day. In the exegesis of that connection, I believe it is Jesus encouraging believers to trust in God for his provision daily.
I can’t argue the classical Greek etymology, but the argument about redundancy flies in the face how I was taught the Lord’s prayer. “Give us this day our daily bread” ~= “Give us our bread today as you do every day”.
Even as a kid I always just thought it was a metaphor. It’s not like god is out here giving people literal bread everyday so I figured it was code for “stuff you need to be okay” whether that’s bread or the courage to face the day.
Everyone arguing dumb things here because of a dumb title. Pronounce = how it phonetically sounds, Nickname = alternative or shortened name. They are not synonyms :)
I’m fluently bilingual in English and Spanish, and I grew up going to a Spanish speaking Presbyterian church. The kids in my high school taught me that “pan” (the spanish word for “bread”) was slang for “pussy”, so everytime my grandpa (the pastor) recited the Lord’s prayer, I always had a huge smile on my face thinking about him asking God to give us our daily allowance of pussy.
Fun story! They came to that conclusion because they discovered a text which had what they believed was another very similar word ("epiousi") that, in context, meant "necessary" or "enough for now." That text was a shopping list.
Then the text got lost for a long time, and when they found it again, new eyes on it realized that they'd misread the word, so it was back to square one.
Επιούσιος (e-pi-u-si-os) is a composite word (you can make an astronomical number of composite words in Greek if you want to express a new concept, such as tele-phone) and in this sentence it means that which will nourish us for the day. So daily is quite fitting here.
The daily translation also makes the term redundant, with “this day” already making clear the bread is for the current day
Yes, but it doesn’t make it clear that it is something you receive every day. If I say “give us our pizza today” it doesn’t imply that I have a daily pizza party (I don’t, just a silly example).
It actually makes the “this day” part redundant. Give us our daily bread works fine. I feel like the addition makes it seem like a demand or that it might not come.
I don’t think it makes it redundant. If the literal translation of the component words mean “that which will nourish us for the day” as @NoMoreLurking asserts, then it is saying “give us today that which we need to eat for the day.” That’s basically saying, “thanks for giving us today all we need to make it through the day.”
It depends. “our daily bread” may mean the ‘bread’ that one needs every day, not necessary the bread that one actually gets everyday.
So it makes sense from the standpoint of someone praying (aka begging) that TODAY they’ll get the nourishment they need every day, because they aren’t really sure if they really will.
First of all, if you are going to accuse me of being fake, at least get my name right, that’s esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress Margot Robbie to you.
Let me tell you, 10 year old me in catholic school really thought he was on to some comedy gold when he realized this day and daily was some confusing shit.
Nobody ever laughed. Turned out, I’m not really funny.
No, you have been misinformed. AC/DC is an acronym for alternating current/direct current, the two types of electricity. It’s fitting because they play electric guitars, and are a heavy metal band. Get it? It was quite witty in 1973.
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