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Turkey's Erdogan calls on Israel to stop attacks on Gaza 'amounting to genocide'

ANKARA, Oct 20 (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Friday called on Israel to stop its attacks on Gaza, which he said amounted to genocide, and urged the international community to work for a humanitarian ceasefire in the region.

In a post on social messaging platform X, Erdogan also said Israel was provoking non-regional actors instead of turning back from its mistakes in Gaza, adding that the region needed saving from the “frenzy of madness” supported by Western powers and media.

Dogyote ,

He was also heard mumbling, Turks know it when they see it

IronpigsWizard ,

Meanwhile he continues airstrikes against the Kurds in Northern Syria/Rojava, using the Gaza crisis as a distraction.

alienanimals ,

Remember when Erdogan came to the US and started having his men beat US protestors?

drislands ,

A broken clock is right twice a day.

febra ,

Yeah… as much as I hate his guts, on this one he’s at least right. Now let’s hope he stops bombing kurds.

deadcat ,
@deadcat@aussie.zone avatar

Why would Israel stop while there are still hostages?

dlatch ,

Maybe, just maybe, because literally thousands of innocent human beings are dying? I sometimes feel like I live in a different reality that this needs to be said.

deadcat ,
@deadcat@aussie.zone avatar

I understand that, but how are Israel supposed to get their hostages back?

dlatch , (edited )

I honestly don’t know, but just simply flattening all of Gaza can’t be the way. Both from a humanitarian perspective (it can not be okay to murder thousands if not tens of thousand by the end of this to save a few), but also in practical sense. I’d even argue the chances of killing the hostages are huge like this, as long as they don’t know where they are.

Imagine if these hostages were held on Israeli territory, they wouldn’t just bomb the shit out of that, that would be considered absurd.

SlikPikker ,

If blood libel was true, would it have justified the Holocaust?

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

The irony...

DragonTypeWyvern ,

I’ll never understand why they insist on conflating the Ottoman Empire with Turkey.

Well, I understand, Erdogan would love to be the Caliph, but it’s still ridiculous to feel like you have to defend the actions of an imperial state that was dissolved.

Pelicanen ,

It’s unfortunately more than just that

DragonTypeWyvern ,

I think people are noting the similarities to the Armenian Genocide with the situation in Gaza. Namely, the forced displacement of millions of people for religious differences, which Turkey denies as a genocide because the Ottomans didn’t set up death camps.

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

Turkey is okay with Hamas firing rockets at Israel though.

little_cow OP ,

Hamas is using Turkish drones https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f23bb773-9edf-4484-9a0a-1ce596eae060.pnghttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/de14788d-a88c-4d2b-8300-b9ecfbb64685.pngyenisafak.com/…/turk-sirketi-gelistirdi-dunyada-l…

vxx ,

Of course. His radicalised base is generally pretty antisemitic.

dumdum666 ,

Sooo… are there still rockets being fired from Terrorists? Are the hostages still being kept by the terrorists?

Why should Israel stop attacking the terrorists?

A_A ,
@A_A@lemmy.world avatar

You are being sarcastic here… right ?

dumdum666 ,

Not at all.

Long read THE OPERATION IN GAZA 27 DECEMBER 2008 – 18 JANUARY 2009 Factual and Legal Aspects

angrymouse ,

I don’t like Hammas, specially because they were funded by Israel to attack Fattah and other members of the PLO in the 80’ and spread terror until today.

But right now Hammas is trying to negotiate to release their hostages, but for Israel is more important to bomb Gaza (supposedly Hammas, cause of course there is no secular civilians in Gaza) than the safety of their own citizens.

Its not like Israel could still attack Hammas after the deal, you know?

MxM111 ,

Yeah, it sounds in your posts like Hamas are the good guys, care about the hostages, trying to release them against Israel will. Of course this is after Hamas without provocation brutally killed 1500 civilians, and captured those hostages. But of course, it is Israeli fault.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

without provocation

Sure only if you ignore the past 80 years of brutal oppression and colonisation.

MxM111 ,

You should look for the meaning of “provocation “ when we talk about brutality killing 1500+ civilians. If you point to history as provocations, then Jews can give you a looooooong list of 3000+ years “provocations “ and where would it lead us?

Spzi ,

I guess it makes sense to not claim things like “without provocation” in this context. Especially when you’re aware the other side disagrees.

MxM111 ,

It is especially important to point to this and discuss this with the other side, otherwise what we achieve if we avoid topics on our disagreement? As for provocation, the attack was prepared for multiple months, and likely years. If anything provoked this attack at this particular time, it is the prospects of normalization with other Arab states such as Saudi Arabia. Hamas wants to destroy Israel, it does not need normalization.

angrymouse ,

I don’t get what part of

I don’t like Hammas

spread terror until today

You read as

Hamas are the good guys

You are fighting a strawman my friend.

I was just responding the point that still exists hostages in Gaza, I don’t expect that Hammas cares about hostages but I expect that Israel care about their citizens, because the first is a militia, and other is a state with one of the best army in the world.
Independently of what I believe or not, when Israel says “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”, it is just a political decision, maybe even this negotiation would not work, but is not something that Israel strategists are venting.

MxM111 ,

Ok, fair enough. You should also notice them that Israel still did not start the ground offensive.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

Hammas is trying to negotiate to release their hostages

Hamas can release the hostages at any second. There are no negotiations required for Hamas to cease their active imprisonment of kidnapped people.

vind ,
@vind@lemmy.world avatar

But the hostages are likely the only thing standing in the way of a full blown ethnic cleaning.

However, don’t confuse this with me defending Hamas in any way.

dumdum666 ,

But the hostages are likely the only thing standing in the way of a full blown ethnic cleaning.

Wow - just wow.

So to put this into perspective: You are saying that Hamas PREEMPTIVELY took civilian hostages, while massacring more than a thousand other civilians, to PREVENT a „full blown ethnic cleaning“ in Gaza? An alleged ethnic cleaning that now is supposed to take place AFTER Hamas and the Islamic Jihad Terrorists murdered all those civilians?

However, don’t confuse this with me defending Hamas in any way.

Noooo… this is not defending Hamas and Islamic Jihad at all. But I do question your ability for reasoning.

vind ,
@vind@lemmy.world avatar

Not at all.

Them taking the hostages was horrible in the first place and likely no real forethought was had for that plan.

But, after Israel’s war crimes and them showing no sign of slowing down, it is likely the hostages have been one of the only reasons the careless bombings and killings of thousands of civilians (half of which are children) haven’t been even worse (as unfathomable as it may seem)

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Because thousands of innocent civilians are being killed too?

dumdum666 ,

Copied from a different comment: Prove (!) that the casualties in Palestine aren’t primarily Hamas Terrorists. The claim by their „Health Authority“ means nothing - because that is Hamas.

Tenthrow ,
@Tenthrow@lemmy.world avatar

Well this is just a bad take.

surewhynotlem ,

Because their aim is shit. If my aim was as bad as theirs, I wouldn’t have kids.

dumdum666 ,

Their aim is shit? Prove (!) that the casualties in Palestine aren’t primarily Hamas Terrorists. The claim by their „Health Authority“ means nothing - because that is Hamas.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

amnesty.org/…/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-i…

“In their stated intent to use all means to destroy Hamas, Israeli forces have shown a shocking disregard for civilian lives. They have pulverized street after street of residential buildings killing civilians on a mass scale and destroying essential infrastructure, while new restrictions mean Gaza is fast running out of water, medicine, fuel and electricity. Testimonies from eyewitness and survivors highlighted, again and again, how Israeli attacks decimated Palestinian families, causing such destruction that surviving relatives have little but rubble to remember their loved ones by,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.”

Alternately:

Ordering the evacuation of a million people, causing a humanitarian crisis:

who.int/…/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-…

Then launching an air strike on the same people attempting to evacuate?

www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/…/index.html

ghostdoggtv ,

It’s called diplomacy, start practicing now because there won’t be any more opportunities when the whole middle east have each other under siege like Israel is doing to Palestineans now.

dumdum666 ,

Interesting take

So the murdering of those civilians on October 7 was a call for negotiations by Hamas?

ghostdoggtv ,

No, dummy. The taking of hostages was though.

Why9 ,

Sooo… are there still rockets being fired from Terrorists?

Yes! And they should stop before more innocent civilian lives are destroyed; not that they care about civilians at all!

Are the hostages still being kept by the terrorists?

I think they just kill them rather than take hostages, right? They consider them to be like animals!

Why should Israel stop attacking the terrorists?

Ohh, you meant Hamas?

dumdum666 , (edited )

You don’t seem to understand the concept of war. If Hamas deliberately places launch sites close to civilian infrastructure, which is a war crime in itself by the way, this infrastructure becomes a legitimate target. Civilian casualties have to be avoided but not at all costs. Especially if Hamas Terrorists wear civilian clothing.

This is International Humanitarian Law - the Law of War.

I think they just kill them rather than take hostages, right? They consider them to be like animals!

ISIS style killings is not beneath Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And yes - those Terrorists act like animals deliberately.

Why9 ,

Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. All they have is civilian infrastructure! By your definition, they shouldn’t be allowed to retaliate at all if they didn’t want to risk civilian deaths.

Israel is bombing hospitals, schools and civilian houses with dozens and dozens of reports of children and innocent civilians being horrifically murdered as a result.

And let’s be adults and stop gassing for a minute: Israel wants Gaza to shrink, and said as much, as if illegally stealing all that land to begin with wasn’t enough.

That’s what this is all about. Terrorist settlers in the West Bank are clearing out villages by walking about to people and shooting them at point-blank range, with soldiers only a few feet away, just watching and not reacting. They’re not even ‘at war’ and those terrorists are clearing Palestinian Territory.

This is simply and truly a Nazi-esque genocide, conducted by people whose grandparents likely witnessed those horrors first hand. They should know better.

dumdum666 , (edited )

Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. All they have is civilian infrastructure! By your definition, they shouldn’t be allowed to retaliate at all if they didn’t want to risk civilian deaths.

You don’t seem to understand. It is war. If a building became a military target because Hamas Terrorists were in it or near it - that building became a legitimate military target according to International Humanitarian Law. Israel is then legally allowed to destroy that target, even though this might cause civilian deaths. I personally don’t like this, but this is the reality of war. A war that Hamas has brought to the Palestinian people.

And let’s be adults and stop gassing for a minute: Israel wants Gaza to shrink, and said as much, as if illegally stealing all that land to begin with wasn’t enough.

The stance of Israel is: If you attack us, you have to pay for that by losing land. And several Terrorist Groups have attacked Israel quite a lot to be frank. Of course the territory gets smaller and smaller every time.

That’s what this is all about. Terrorist settlers in the West Bank are clearing out villages by walking about to people and shooting them at point-blank range, with soldiers only a few feet away, just watching and not reacting. They’re not even ‘at war’ and those terrorists are clearing Palestinian Territory.

If this happens, those people are criminals and should be put in jail.

This is simply and truly a Nazi-esque genocide, conducted by people whose grandparents likely witnessed those horrors first hand. They should know better.

This is Bullshit - and you know it. If Israel wanted genocide, they could have done it several times already. There are ten times as many Palestinians now, compared to creation of the state Israel in 1948. You do realize how incredibly bad the Israelis seem to be with this whole genocide thing?

On the other hand: Remind me again what the Hamas founding charter says about Israel?

ShroOmeric ,

I’ll remember these kind of comments next time I hear that “never again” nonsense.

dumdum666 ,

You definitely should remember this, since this is the reality of war that Hamas has forced on the Palestinian people. And Hamas tries everything in their power to exacerbate the civilian casualties by deliberately placing their launch sites close to civilian infrastructure and civilians as a whole and also dressing like civilians.

So tell me, how should Israel protect its own citizens against the Hamas/Islamic Jihad war criminals that STILL fire rockets against civilians?

Maalus ,

Let me guess, they should “protect its own citizens” by commiting genocide by bombing everything to the ground in the Gaza Strip?

dumdum666 ,

Quit throwing around the word genocide, if you obviously do not know what it means. It sounds fancy and strong though, doesn’t it?

Let me guess, they should “protect its own citizens” by commiting genocide by bombing everything to the ground in the Gaza Strip?

You cannot answer a question with another question.

How should Israel protect its own citizens against the Hamas/Islamic Jihad war criminals that STILL fire rockets against civilians?

Maalus ,

I know exactly what “genocide” means. It means a deliberate killing of a group of people with the intent of destroying their nation / group. It also means displacing people out of their lands to get rid of their national identity. I wonder if that has happened recently in Gaza.

I can ask an obviously biased person on the internet if they support genocide. Which you do - otherwise you wouldn’t try to say it’s not genocide, and then ask “what else are they supposed to do if not commit genocide? :(”

zenitsu ,

Civilians die and are displaced in every war, that doesn’t automatically make it genocide lmao. Are they levelling the west bank too?

Maalus ,

Another one excusing genocide as “just a war”.

zenitsu ,

God forbid anyone ask you to be more precise with your definitions instead of shitting out whatever word gets you the most emotional points.

Maalus ,

Genocide is a precise enough definition for what is happening in Palestine.

zenitsu , (edited )

Clearly passes the bar for “precision” in your mind, though that bar seems low. Genocide is a bit of a pointless word to throw at Israel because you’d have to automatically apply it to the other side too, the side that has blatantly declared its intent for genocide but just doesn’t have the power to back it up fully. So before accusing Israel of genocide without doing the same for Hamas, imagine what things would look like there if the power dynamic was reversed.

dlatch , (edited )

Let me ask you two questions.

If Hamas is forcing this upon the Palestinian people, and is forcefully preventing civilians from moving away from them, that makes the Palestinian people effectively hostages of Hamas. So if the Palestinian hostages happen to be near Hamas terrorists, are they acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?

Eventually, Israel will find out where the Israeli hostages are being kept. Obviously, there will be Hamas terrorists near them. Are the Israeli hostages acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?

If you answered yes to one question, and no to the other, you should ask yourself why you put different value on the lives of innocent human beings. Is it what side of a fence they are born on? What nationality they happen to have? What religion they believe in? The color of their skin?

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