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Pentagon independently concluded Islamic Jihad responsible for hospital blast

President Joe Biden was asked by a reporter in Israel on Wednesday what made him confident that the Israelis weren’t behind the explosion that killed hundreds at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday.

Biden responded that it was “the data I was shown by my Defense Department.”

Two U.S. officials told ABC News the Pentagon independently concluded the Gaza hospital blast was likely caused by an errant Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that fell short of its target.

JewGoblin ,

you mean the hospital parking lot?

praise_idleness , (edited )

For the reference, this is about 500 people:

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/d385fc03-4513-46fa-ad23-86c27a3adda3.webp

Some radical estimations talked of -1000 deaths. This is 1000 people:

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/602134ed-efbf-4c6e-9379-b99fcf01647f.webp

azertyfun ,

Both of those estimates come from Hamas sources (well the 1000 people one IDK where you got that from).

JFC people you can criticize Israel without gobbling up a terrorist organization’s fat propaganda dick. For now we just have no way to know how many people died in that hospital. Find another war crime to criticize Israel for, they’re not that hard to come by.

praise_idleness ,

You don’t get it. This is to show how ridiculous 500 people claim is. Was the parking lot full of clown cars? If not, 500 claim is pretty much self evident fake news, let alone a thousand.

azertyfun ,

Ooh gotcha. Unfortunately I’ve read some wild conspiracy theories about this in the last few days so I immediately thought this was more of the same… sorry lol

praise_idleness ,

I get that. It’s one thing to blame Israel for bombing civilian targets but those Hamas apologists are mental gymnastics Olympians.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah if they’d said a dozen people died I’d believe it. That crater looked like a stick of TNT went up, not a 2000 pound bomb.

If it has exploded directly overhead in the center of 500 people packed like sardines I don’t think it could have killed more than a couple dozen.

blitzkrieg ,

Yeah, the hospital wasn’t filled with civilians hurt/running away from bombings after Israel told them to run away because they’re gonna bomb them again.

No way it would have had +500 humans in there.

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

But the hospital wasn’t hit, the parking lot was.

blitzkrieg ,

The parking loot is a part of the hospital.

Does it seem out of this world to you that there would be +500 humans in the parking lot of a hospital in a crisis like this?

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

Yes, it seems absolutely impossible. 500 people is a massive number.

blitzkrieg ,

You have never seen a parking lot as big as the conference in your image?

You can’t possibly imaging 500 hundred humans running from being bombed staying together in a parking lot of a hospital that is smaller than the conference in your images? You can’t imagine that at all?

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

Jammed full of people, not unless there’s a concert. In an emergency you try and get people into the hospital as quickly as possible, and people aren’t going to arrive all at once. I could see 50 people killed in a hospital parking lot during an emergency, but 500, absolutely not.

blitzkrieg ,

The hospital is already full.

My friend, we’re taking about people being displaced and running away from being bombed to hide and get treated in a hospital, and your response is “No way more than 50 humans were in the parking lot”?

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

They were not keeping hundreds of people in the parking lot, that’s an absurd claim.

blitzkrieg ,

You living in your safe place can’t imagine how much people would go to a hospital after being bombed.

What happened was so horrific that you can’t even imagine it.

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

You’re so willing to believe Hamas propaganda about the numbers. No, 500 people did not die from the failed rocket launch.

Look at this blast zone, you really think 500 people were in there:

th.bing.com/th?id=OIF.KNvlh4O%2fw%2fLvXfQQvHFl1A&…

This is not a giant wall mart parking lot, this is a tiny intersection with a dozen cars in it. No, there were not 500 people in there.

blitzkrieg ,

Yes, displaced people hiding from being bombed can be piled up in a parking lot to an extent you apparently can’t imagine.

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

I can’t believe you’ve taken in this Hamas propaganda so completely.

No, there is zero chance there were 500 people in that tiny ass parking lot full of cars, you could not fit them in there.

Just look at the pictures of the place, zero chance there were 500 people there.

praise_idleness ,

After not so careful consideration, I’ve decided to trust your claim. 500 people died because of hamas’s sheer incompetence and then used as a propaganda.What a tragedy.

blitzkrieg ,

Hamas doesn’t have rockets that can kill +500 humans in a single strike.

If they had that, Israel would be toast.

Spzi ,

Yes, that might be the case under the current circumstances. The above picture helped to imagine what 500 people look like crammed squarely in a space. I doubt the 500 hypothetical people resting in the parking lot were placed more tightly than that.

Next, look at pictures of the detonation crater, which has the size of a sewer manhole. Imagine that explosion going off in the middle of the audience of 500 people. Would they all die from that? The sheer amount of body mass and flesh would shield the people in rows 20+ from the explosion.

I bet you couldn’t kill 500 people with whatever exploded there, if you tied them directly onto the bomb, or rocket, or whatever. Is there any precedent of a terrorist attack or military strike or anything which killed that many people with a similarly small explosion?

blitzkrieg ,

You can’t imagine people running away from being bombed being more tightly packed than people attending a conference?

Spzi ,

Ok, fair point. But still, the explosion only has finite power. Shock waves literally do have a kill limit. They cannot rip through waves and waves of human flesh and still come out deadly on the other side. At some point, the energy is absorbed, the fragments are absorbed.

blitzkrieg ,

At this point, no one is arguing about how many people died, people are arguing about who did it.

Now, who has a rocket that can kill hundreds of humans, the Israeli army, one of the most powerful armies in the world, backed by the US, the most powerful army in the world, or Hamas, who make pitiful self-made rockets from metal pipes?

Spzi ,

no one is arguing about how many people died

Oh, people are arguing about exactly that. We’re even in a subthread which is all about the number 500!


<span style="color:#323232;">You don’t get it. This is to show how ridiculous 500 people claim is.
</span>

Now, who has a rocket that can kill hundreds of humans

As far as I know, all evidence points to a palestinian device, including the small blast radius.

And the claim that “hundreds of humans” were killed is most probably fake news.

I’m not interested to go into further rabbit holes. This cannot be resolved in debate anyways. Future investigations might reveal what happened, we cannot do that here.

blitzkrieg ,

Alright, this thread is arguing about how many people were killed. The rest of the world is arguing about who did it.

But the western media and the president of the US are saying Hamas did it.

This is the president of the same country that lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to invade them, and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians(In Iraq alone). And their response years later was “Sorry, my bad”.

What makes you think they won’t lie about this? Or anything else?

AngryCommieKender ,

I’m sure that some valets manage to get “parking loot”

blitzkrieg ,

Are you making fun of this tragedy?

AngryCommieKender , (edited )

The tragedy of the Hamas v Israel conflict? No.

The misspelling of “parking lot,” in the comment I replied to? Yes. I am joking about that in particular, because I have to find humor somewhere.

Socsa ,

The video seems pretty clear tbh. An aircraft dropping bombs would be quite loud, and a missile would be visible.

Ilovethebomb ,

Which video was this?

KillLGBTQ ,

Let's just wait this out. No need to get involved.

angrymouse ,

USA is directly involved on the conflict with more than 5000 soldiers ready, believe in this is like believing in Belarus statements about Ukraine war.

BBC does not found any evidence of the attack from any side but al Jazeera had a live stream that shows a rocket comming from Israel at the same time.

This argument that the blast site does not appears to be from a Israel’s warhead is shit. Israel would not target a Hospital directly and this could be a piece of the rocket that broke off.

slrpnk.net/post/3200423

Scrof ,

Israel doesn’t use rocket artillery, Al Jazeera is about as unbiased a source as China Daily and Russia Today, that is 100% paid propaganda for the dumbest people around.

NoiseColor ,

Al jazeera is one of the most credible and reliable news agencies in the world. It’s nothing like rt or China daily and certainly better than anything US has. But obviously one should not go to al jazeera for news about the middle east.

DoomBot5 ,

Certainly never listen to any of their Arabic reporting. You might be in for a shocker.

nonailsleft ,

Al Jazeera is owned by the state of Qatar, the same Qatar that is probably the biggest donor to Hamas in recent decades.

NoiseColor ,

Thanks for this commonly known information, but that changes nothing to what I’ve previously said.

angrymouse ,

Yeah, BBC is also completely biased.
And calling Al Jazeera biased?
Dafuq are you talking? You come here, spit a lot of shit baseless and call it a day, average internet user.

LadyAutumn ,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    DoomBot5 ,

    Qatar sure is. I wonder which government runs AJ…

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i believe Hamas would do it on purpose just to make Israel look bad.. it probably wasn't even a mistake.. i mean, they use their own people as meat shields all the time, it wouldn't be a surprise if they bombed their own kids..

    freepalestine ,

    gaza is about the size of jersey and one of the most crowded cities in the world. if you shoot 1 ton missiles into a crowd of people to hit one target, chances are you are going to hit more than just your target

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    they would do it on purpose

    freepalestine ,

    or perhaps israel kills people on purpose when shooting those missiles?

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    it doesn't matter what else, perhaps.. i know Hamas would do it, just to intensify the conflict.. and so does everyone else..

    time_lord ,

    Israel is the size of New Jersey. Gaza is something like 140 Sq miles.

    Squizzy ,

    Israel doesn’t need help to look bad, fucking despicable.

    downpunxx ,
    @downpunxx@kbin.social avatar

    Palestinians lie, and the world blames Jews, then the world targets Jews, and when the truth finally comes out, no one apologizes, the hurt and blood cannot be rescinded, because "The Jews deserved it anyway"

    angrymouse ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    chaogomu ,

    The IDF has launched missiles at hospitals and schools in the past, and then claimed that they were "Hamas strongholds".

    They have no credibility. A fact that Hamas is actively exploiting. Not that Hamas has any credibility, either.

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    A fact that Hamas is actively exploiting.

    By being equally as un-trustworthy.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I would love to see their proof that this wasn’t Israel. Israel showed footage taken 40 minutes after the attack as proof that it wasn’t them.

    What proof is the pentagon going on? The pentagon is a US military entity that is heavily involved already with promoting and disseminating Israeli propaganda. I, and many others, will not believe it until we see proof.

    BaroqueInMind ,
    @BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

    Do you seriously want to see a video of a hospital full of women and children blow up? The fuck is wrong with you?

    You listen to a doctor when they recommend you something because they are professionals dedicated to their job but hypocritically reject the same kinds of information from other sources full of dedicated professionals without issues.

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    The United States government is quite possibly the least trustworthy organization in the entire world and I have absolutely 0 faith for them to accurately provide any information that would in any way be detrimental to them or their allies.

    The Israeli state is an active apartheid state that confines Palestinians to large ghettos and legally deprives them of their human rights. They have spent the last 70 years continually committing atrocities and war crimes against Palestinian men, women, and children. Their defense minister recently referred to Palestinians as “human animals,” and they are being led by a man who has been openly genocidal towards Palestine for the last 30 years. I literally do not trust a single word that comes from the Israeli state on absolutely anything. They have lied continuously since this conflict began and are openly racist and discriminatory towards Muslims. I have no doubt in my mind that a military that routinely shoots journalists and medical staff would bomb this hospital. They have already bombed other hospitals since this conflict began.

    There is a huge difference between the intricacies of biology and of where a fucking missile came from. They would provide proof if they had it. They have every single reason to want Israel’s name cleared. Even cropped video footage or whatever data they have. I will believe it when I see it.

    BaroqueInMind ,
    @BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

    I am unable to rebuke your comment and only can say that it is coherent and valid.

    NoiseColor ,

    There is plenty of evidence out now.

    Its also normal for hamas to try to politicaly exploit the situation. On the other hand Israel has done things like that before, so it wouldn’t be completely out of character.

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    The israeli, palestinian, russian, chinese and american governments are quite possibly the least trustworthy organizations in the entire world and I have absolutely 0 faith for them to accurately provide any information that would in any way be detrimental to them or their allies.

    Ftfy

    cmbabul ,

    The Catholic Church belongs on that list

    Edit: also the Protestant sects

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Fuck yea they do. I’d like to add the rest of the governments of the world as well.

    cmbabul ,

    Hey now, leave Rojava out of this, they’re doing some really cool stuff out there

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    For now they get a pass

    cmbabul ,

    You should look into them, and the political concept of democratic confederalism they’ve applied to their region of Syria/Kurdistan. Its about the best system I’ve encountered for humans to organize themselves that prioritzes sustainability, equality, self governance, and cooperation

    Annoyed_Crabby ,

    I’ve seen more people blaming muslim/palestine for this war and say they deserved it than people blaming jews instead of the zionist for causing this war. You all really like to use jew as a criticism shield don’t you.

    hh93 ,

    Have you been on the internet in the past week? Sure politicians and newspapers are generally more towards that kind of statement but Lemmy and Twitter are basically flooded with solidarity with Palestine and yesterday I saw multiple threads about this incident with sources that claimed it was Israel which had people being all “of course they would do that” and if the article was about Israel denying involvement the most comments were not believing that.

    Some people started spraying stars of David on houses where Jews live in Berlin yesterday and another person threw a Molotov at a synagogue.

    There is a shitton of anti-zionist rhetoric out there which fluently merges with anti-semitism

    Annoyed_Crabby ,

    While i acknowledge there’s extremist out there and neo nazi joining the fray, and you should acknowledge that the call to violence by Israeli government is indirectly causing the fatal stabbing of a kid and his mother, the thing is, i don’t see anything anti-semitism on the post you’re talking? All they were doing is doubting the word of Israeli Government because they lied, lied, lied, and lied, but i never see this sort of comment hurling at all Jew, it’s only the “other side” that keep bringing jew in whenever israel is being criticised.

    Well i wouldn’t say “never”, but close.

    ParsnipWitch , (edited )

    I don’t see Jews giving out candy and celebrating on the street when Palestinians are killed. But that’s what is happening here in Germany when Hamas kill and kidnap Israelis. Some Palestinians and their supporters celebrate this.

    Annoyed_Crabby ,

    That is because it’s not a war between Jew and Palestinian, it’s a war between Israel and Palestine, and Israeli are the one celebrating when Palestinian are killed.

    Confused? Don’t be, just ask yourself why it’s always have to lump all Jewish people together when people merely criticising Israel(the government), but when talking about Palestine it’s only on to Palestinian(which it should be) .

    ParsnipWitch , (edited )

    I don’t heard about any celebrations of Jews or Israelis because of the bombings. I am sure you can post some links?

    Here are Muslims and/or Palestinians and/or pro-Palestine-protestors celebrating the attack on Israel:

    morgenpost.de/…/angriff-israel-krieg-hamas-neukoe…

    tagesanzeiger.ch/demonstration-in-berlin-radikale…

    taz.de/Hamas-Unterstuetzer-in-Berlin/

    There is more, these are just the first I could find from Germany.

    Annoyed_Crabby ,

    https://monyet.cc/pictrs/image/60c759b9-17cd-45b1-bcdc-d58f43c72c56.jpeg

    I’m not even talking about the celebration.

    Annoyed_Crabby ,

    Ohh right before i forgot, and i know it’s irrelevant to the point i’m making, but here you go

    moneyinphx ,

    And the US’s official statement was that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and we needed to invade. Sure…

    dumdum666 ,

    Since this discussion comes again and again and again, here a Crosspost from a similar thread that shows the „morning after“:

    So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.

    Questions I personally have:

    • where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
    • why does the building seem undamaged?
    • how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
    c0mbatbag3l ,
    @c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

    Most of those cars don’t even have displaced metal like an explosion, most of it is charred in a secondary fire. Plus what infrastructure does Palestine have to clear the supposed 500+ bodies? Do they have a first world crisis response group hiding somewhere?

    I’d say less then a couple dozen could have possibly died given the impact crater and damage, and that’s assuming all cars were loaded with people and they got instantly trapped and burned to death which probably didn’t happen.

    There’s so many points of “this seems unlikely” on the Hamas side that it’s not worth taking them seriously about it. It’s propaganda through and through. We have more than enough actual documented war crimes from Israel that this “boy who cried wolf” shit is just going to exacerbate their victimhood through discrediting the very real things that they have done wrong as being “probably also propaganda.”

    assassin_aragorn ,

    It was also their official statement that Russia was going to invade Ukraine.

    The intelligence agencies actually concluded that Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction. It was the Bush administration that spun it as a certainty and created the lie that they definitely had them.

    Stamau123 OP ,

    You mean to tell me there hasn’t been President America running things for 200+ yrs straight?

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Uncle Sam has been pulling the strings all this time

    Socsa ,

    Yeah but this time there’s video

    Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
    @Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

    Is Islamic Jihad distinct from Hamas?

    Nougat ,

    It is a different group. How much they align with each other and/or cooperate, I do not know.

    hassanmckusick ,

    Hamas is the closest thing to a real government that Palestine has. Hamas has stated a willingness to accept a 2 state solution, they used to want all the land back but now they just want peace. Some countries like NZ take the time to differentiate between Hamas (not terrorists, political arm) and Qassam Brigades (the terrorist military arm of Hamas).

    As far as I have read PIJ is just terrorist who wanna kill all Israelis.

    Nougat ,

    ... differentiate between Hamas (not terrorists, political arm) and Qassam Brigades (the terrorist military arm of Hamas).

    So kind of like Sinn Féin vs the IRA, this makes sense.

    DoomBot5 ,

    And here we go with the latest attempt at propaganda to make Hamas look like the victims. Yeah, what you said is full of lies. Especially the part about Hamas wanting any kind of solution where Israel exists.

    hassanmckusick ,

    theguardian.com/…/hamas-new-charter-palestine-isr…

    Telodzrum ,

    Hamas is a violent terrorist group whose sole aim is to visit suffering on Israel and it’s people.

    The Palestinian Authority is the closest thing to a government that Palestine has and, while it’s corrupt and ineffective, it’s leagues better than Hamas which runs Gaza as a violent gang.

    Rengoku ,

    If they (Hamas) really wants two state solutions he would not have blown up Israel indiscriminately.

    hassanmckusick ,

    Remember when we almost had peace but then a Kahanist assassinated Rabin?

    Rengoku ,

    Sounds like a very distant fairy tale.

    So how is it even related with the issue at hand again? Another make up link of two unrelated incidents?

    hassanmckusick ,

    https://lemmy.discothe.quest/pictrs/image/e4ee2c82-6df0-47f4-b0d7-cb32aab16418.jpeg

    hassanmckusick ,

    Yes, you can usually find it abbreviated as PIJ and supposedly has ties to Iran

    givesomefucks ,
    1. He was asked on the street by a random reporter.
    2. His quote includes “likely”
    3. For the last couple years Bidens off the cuff remarks haven’t exactly been reliable.

    Yet people are treating this as an official stance of the US Government…

    li10 ,

    I’ll take what the president says as the stance of the US government, and I don’t think that’s remotely unreasonable…

    If he’s making mistakes with off the cuff remarks, then he needs to stop making off the cuff remarks.

    givesomefucks ,

    Well, the president is stopping short of saying it was Hamas yet, so there you go.

    fubo ,

    Nobody thinks it was Hamas. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) is a different Iran-supported group.

    givesomefucks ,

    No one from the US government has said it was anyone…

    Just “it doesn’t look like Israel is responsible”

    Yet people are acting like it’s undeniable proof…

    Goldoad ,

    Good enough for me.

    Fades ,

    The same people who jumped on the Israel definitely bombed that hospital bandwagon are now so sure that nothing short of 100% proof could ever sway them

    Wakmrow ,

    A week ago Biden said he saw beheaded babies

    kent_eh ,

    I’ll take what the president says as the stance of the US government

    It’s certainly more likely to be the correct way if looking at it than it was a few short years ago.

    trash80 ,

    If he’s making mistakes with off the cuff remarks, then he needs to stop making off the cuff remarks.

    He does it almost constantly. The Democratic party would owe a great debt to anyone who can find a way to keep him from going off script.

    newsweek.com/joe-biden-starts-israel-trip-major-g…

    rambaroo ,

    Biden’s been making stupid off the cuff remarks since the 80s, it’s practically what he’s known for.

    iAmTheTot ,
    @iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

    Uh, did you miss this part?

    Two U.S. officials told ABC News the Pentagon independently concluded

    givesomefucks ,

    The embedded tweet:

    While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday.

    So the investigation isn’t concluded, there might not have even been an official investigation, and all they’re saying is Israel “isn’t responsible”.

    None of what OPs headline claims.

    iAmTheTot ,
    @iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

    That's a tweet from the white house national security council. That's completely independent of the article's claim that two pentagon officials gave them info.

    givesomefucks ,

    So those two officials haven’t officially said it…

    And even if they did say it to journalists, there’s nothing to back it up?

    iAmTheTot ,
    @iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

    What exactly are you trying to get at? I've literally rebuked every claim you've made, but your stance just seems to boil down to "they are lying."

    givesomefucks ,

    I’ve literally rebuked every claim you’ve made

    Many antivaxers and trump supporters have thought the same thing…

    iAmTheTot ,
    @iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

    Lmao okay buddy. Good job not answering my question.

    gmtom ,

    Wow shocker the pentagon is defending its close partner in the war. Ill beleive them when they actually release evidence not just “The pentagon said so.”

    Stamau123 OP ,
    1. He was asked on the street by a random reporter.

    Out of anything this is the strangest complaint. Why wouldn’t he answer a street reporter?

    givesomefucks ,

    Because Biden’s biggest fans have spent years defending his misspeaking by saying his stutter makes him get words mixed up when he’s randomly asked questions…

    So when he’s stopped to get asked a random question, we need to wait a day or two to see if that’s what he really meant to say, or if his stutter made him somehow say the wrong words again.

    NewNewAccount ,

    If the administration comes out with a revision or clarified updated statement then I’ll likely accept that too. For now, words out of the presidents literal mouth are as much of an official statement that I need.

    givesomefucks ,

    Must have been a confusing seven years for you then…

    NewNewAccount ,

    Which seven years are you referring to?

    givesomefucks ,

    For now, words out of the presidents literal mouth are as much of an official statement that I need.

    The most recent seven…

    I didn’t think I needed to specify that

    NewNewAccount ,

    Admittedly Biden is old and boring and sometimes confusing. Trump was a gaslighter whose words also represented the office, but that I couldn’t trust.

    I don’t have to wake up worrying about some dangerous shit that Biden tweeted though. I’ll take this any day of the week.

    givesomefucks ,

    Well, yeah.

    The world isn’t black or white. But if you’ve been accepting anything a US president says as enough…

    Saying it’s been an issue for 7 years is an understatement. Which is why you asking g me to clarify was so weird.

    Obama was only decent because of the drastically low bar we’ve had for decades.

    NewNewAccount ,

    I’m accepting it as “enough” in the very narrow definition that words from the president qualify as a statement from the office.

    vertigo3pc ,

    “Iraq has WMD’s” is a similar statement, backed by an entire administration, that also led to unnecessary deaths.

    Its a political statement, because if Israel did attack the hospital, then that’s another outright war crime right after Israel was threatened by Jordan, Lebanon, and Iran.

    Zippit ,

    They’re lying, I mean the US. Nothing new here.

    donuts ,
    @donuts@kbin.social avatar

    This is the part where you show the receipts...

    givesomefucks ,

    This is like a child demanding proof Santa isn’t real…

    Fades ,

    The person making a serious claim like that holds the burden of proof.

    givesomefucks ,

    And yet Israel has shown none…

    underisk ,
    @underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ah yes. Just like Iraq had WMDs.

    Sure is crazy how, of all the places a rocket misfire could have landed, it struck a place guaranteed to be full of people. A baptist hospital, no less, which would definitely drive up religious tensions in the area if it turned out it was bombed by HAMAS. Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.

    freepalestine ,

    Israel is a genocidal state but most arrows point towards a misfire. They don’t have the money for quality weapons and don’t have the training. This looks like a pretty small warhead struck and the surrounding petrol in the cars erupted into flames. Don’t buy into spreading misinformation, it just weakens our cause. anyways, fuck israel.

    underisk ,
    @underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

    My dude, HAMAS rockets are barely capable of doing property damage, let alone killing hundreds of people. You expect me to believe that one of these things broke apart mid flight in the perfect fucking way to strike at the fuel supply and set it off in the middle of a huge building full of people? That this practically Rube Goldbergian chain of events is the more likely explanation? One of us is definitely spreading misinformation here but I don’t think it’s me.

    freepalestine ,

    if you look at the images there is hardly any property damage. there is no crater. there are a few busted windows and some charred cars. not an expert but it wasnt some kind of WMD. and im not entirely sold on the 500 mark either.

    its not gymnastics. israel is flattening gaza with bombs and has attacked “safe” escape routes. im not denying that. but hamas also has awful equipment and little military training, misfires are expected.

    chakan2 ,
    @chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

    When they’re firing thousands of these things? I think it’s possible.

    I don’t have a dog in this fight. It’s a religious war that will go on until long past my years here.

    kiwifoxtrot ,
    @kiwifoxtrot@lemmy.world avatar

    It hit a parking lot at the hospital, not the actual building. Here’s an Initial analysis that was posted elsewhere on Lemmy.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    I think it's at least as plausible an explanation as Israel deciding to piss away the most goodwill it's had in decades by bombing a hospital parking lot for absolutely no reason other than to kill some civilians.

    burntbutterbiscuits ,

    What do you mean “our cause”?

    Isn’t truth the cause, and to stop the killing of ANY civilians? And to stop the needless killing on all sides….

    donuts ,
    @donuts@kbin.social avatar

    Oh you sweet summer child, I wish.

    freepalestine ,

    I have no idea what you’re asking. Yes I would love if people stopped this madness and gave palestinians their homeland back. what does that have to do with facing the facts of one tragedy? friendly fire happens.

    burntbutterbiscuits ,

    I’m no politician but that suggestion is even more untenable than the zionists here

    Stamau123 OP ,

    Israel couldn’t have hoped for a more favorable outcome, how fortunate.

    They could have done damage to the hospital proper, that would have been more favorable in this escalation plot you nailed down. Why another escalation is needed after raids are already commencing, I dunno, the plot is just so dastardly. The anti-israel riots after this event are undoubtedly going to be used by Israel to give carte blanche to start striking Gaza! Oh wait, that was already happening. A plan so good it is accomplished before it starts.

    Also the density of Gaza would make it more probable than not that hamas/Islamic jihad bombs would land in population dense spots when they land short. You don’t hear about the IJ bombs that didn’t land in hospital parking lots, and assuming otherwise would be rife with logical fallacies.

    All in all these events gave Israel nothing that they didn’t already have, and stalled Arab meetings to boot. IJ got a pr coup from uncritical media, and the whole event has been muddied into useless circles.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Just like Iraq had WMDs.

    This line really doesn’t mean that much anymore after critics used it to say the claims that Russia was going to invade Ukraine were untrue.

    Healthy skepticism is warranted, but let’s not use arguments that have become hollow.

    rambaroo ,

    It’s not a hollow argument, the US has a long history of blatantly lying for political reasons. And the Iraq lie resulted in the US murdering 1 million+ Iraqis, acting like it’s irrelevant because you don’t want to hear criticism of the US is a bullshit response.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    And people repeatedly said this about the US claiming Russia was going to invade Ukraine. How did that go?

    WhiteHawk ,

    What makes you think this is the only rocket that misfired? We just wouldn’t hear about one that crashed into an empty piece of desert.

    freepalestine ,

    I just want to respectfully remind everyone that just because this tragedy was likely not perpetrated by Israel, it does not mean they are absolved of any of the hundreds of war crimes they have already committed.

    MindSkipperBro12 ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    freepalestine ,

    Israel has killed thousands and displaced millions…because they think it’s their god given right to conquer the land. most of the country agrees that arabic people should not have the right to live in land that was palestine a few years back. they are an apartheid state and have essentially wiped out most of an ethnicity and culture in 70 years.

    go fuck yourself

    V17 ,

    Israel has killed thousands and displaced millions…because they think it’s their god given right to conquer the land. most of the country agrees that arabic people should not have the right to live in land that was palestine a few years back.

    The goal of palestinian nationalists is literally the same thing with the roles reversed. I fail to see a difference apart from the fact that Israel is stronger and we're more critical towards it since it's a democracy and should know better.

    freepalestine , (edited )

    Palestinians are brutalized on a daily basis. Their land was stolen after WW2 then slowly usurped and terrorized while the world kept funding Israel. That was originally palestinian land, and there were even jewish communities in that palestinian land. Now it is an ethnostate that lets new yorkers take some guy’s ancestral home because he’s of the correct ethnic category.

    e: it’s quite strange to have to explain to people why a genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid is bad.

    V17 ,

    Palestine as a country has never existed and Jews have as much of a historical claim to the regions as Palestinians do.

    freepalestine ,

    So for you, a millennia of history, distinct cultures, and dialect are meaningless. People who migrated and forcibly colonized in 1948, with no connection to the region or land have as much of a claim to it as an ethnicity who has lived there for centuries.

    So if that’s your argument do you just believe that israel has the right to go on a conquest and slaughter palestine? Genuine question.

    bernieecclestoned ,

    Have you never heard of middle eastern Jews? Genuine question

    freepalestine ,

    of course, I even said there were Jews that lived in palestine before annexation. one is a ethnicity and the other is a religion, so I’m not sure how that’s relevant.

    even if i follow your train of thought, jewish palestinians existed so they have the right to create an ethnostate?

    bernieecclestoned ,

    Because both Palestinians and Jews existed in Canaan. Both have equal claim to territory, which is why a two state solution is the only solution.

    V17 ,

    So if that’s your argument do you just believe that israel has the right to go on a conquest and slaughter palestine? Genuine question.

    I don't believe my comment indicated that. I simply don't believe that Palestine has the right to go on a conquest and slaughter Israel either.

    There are things that Israel did that I strongly disagree with, in recent history most of them are connected to West bank settlements. There are more things that I disagree with that Palestine did. I think that the 1948 UN proposed 2-state solution would have been more than reasonable, and it would have likely put Palestine into a much better position than it's in now, but one can't change the past. We'll see if Israel government becomes more reasonable and thinks of a more current lasting solution, but I'm not holding my breath.

    So for you, a millennia of history, distinct cultures, and dialect are meaningless.

    Why do you think so? Jews also lived in the area, and the ones who came later afaik generally migrated and purchased their land legally, with the exception of migration during WW2, which was not legal, but imo pretty understandable since it was literally done by refugees running from the holocaust. People argue that it wasn't kosher since the region was under British control, but before that it was under the control of Osmans and before that the region was afaik under control of someone who conquered it for most of its history. It has never been a country.

    Obviously this doesn't give Israel a claim over the whole region, but I don't think they have any less of a right for existence than Palestine.

    snooggums ,
    @snooggums@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah, is there any place in southern Gaza that isn't packed full of the people they told to move there from the north for 'safety'?

    DoomBot5 ,

    You rather they stay on top of the Hamas terror tunnels Israel is targeting? Hams would like that.

    diomnep ,

    Lmao, “terror tunnels”

    agitatedpotato ,

    They killed multiple journalists earlier this week and killed at least 6 in a strike on a school and this hospital debacle has drowned all of that out.

    praise_idleness ,

    Just because they did a lot of bad things doesn’t mean that you can blatantly lie about killing 500 civilians and then get away with it. Can Israel lie about Hamas beheading 500 babies? And when they do, are you going to accept the narrative of well even if they didn’t do it, they did a lot of bad things? Don’t think so.

    I get why you’re saying that, but that doesn’t help anyone.

    crypticthree ,

    You know multiple groups of people can be wrong at the same time right

    praise_idleness ,

    You know that is exactly what I’m saying, right?

    Shardikprime ,

    Are both of you people even capable of saying anything which isn’t a question GOD-DAMN

    SilentStorms ,

    I mean, Isreal bombed that same hospital 2 days earlier, was conducting bombing campaigns in the area, ordered the evacuation of the hospital less than 24 hours before, and kept changing their story around it. It was a pretty fair assumption that it was them until more evidence was produced.

    Fades ,

    Could you please provide a source on the bombing of the same hospital 2 days earlier by Israel?

    SilentStorms , (edited )

    anglicannews.org/…/anglican-run-al-ahli-arab-hosp…

    Sorry for the weird source, I grabbed it from Wikipedia. I could try to find something more reputable later today. It’s hard to find sources on every specific bombing, as they’ve dropped many thousands in the past week.

    Edit: This is anglicannews because the Anglican Church runs the hospital, so this is actually about as direct a source as we’re gonna get. (I see that part in the headline now, I was tired when I found this earlier)

    SilentStorms ,

    Better sources as promised:

    Photos: m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0JJ1N8Rv…

    NY Times (mentioned towards the end of the article): nytimes.com/…/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-explaine…

    NPR (midway): npr.org/…/heres-the-available-evidence-of-what-ha…

    Lyrl ,

    Israel was asking every place that had civilians in the north, including this hospital, to evacuate them south. Which itself is highly problematic, but the warnings were not specific to this hospital.

    SilentStorms ,

    They specifically asked for hospitals to be evacuated in addition to the general evacuation order

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Can we hold hamas (and palestine for giving them a holdout) for their war crimes, or is your logic only one-way?

    WhiteHawk ,

    No, people here are incapable of thinking in anything other than black-and-white

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    You speak the truth, even if it was meant to be sarcastic.

    Kedly ,

    Yeah, because condemning one side means you cant condemn the other…

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    This is why I asked haha

    CubbyTustard ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Stamau123 OP ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a24dff65-5ea3-4334-9904-d3077b5e30fe.jpegI mean, it doesn’t appear to be out of the range of their other ordinance. Cars burnt out but Clay tiled awning still uncracked, road appears drivable. Unless you’re still working with the outdated information that this was an airstrike that killed ~500

    ryathal ,

    If Israel was going to blow up a hospital, they would have done a better job. It’s pretty much the same blowback for partially and completely destroying one.

    agitatedpotato , (edited )

    newsweek.com/mysterious-case-gazas-al-shifa-hospi…

    Well heres one hospital strike in 2014 that the consensus is they are responsible for, and again it was a strike that hit off to the side and they claimed someone else did. So in the case where this would have been Isreals fault, it would look very similar to another hospital strike they did do.

    They even used the same excuse blaming Gaza terror organizations, not Hamas directly.

    Son_of_dad ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    donuts ,
    @donuts@kbin.social avatar

    Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets towards Israel. (Pretty much all of them seem to have been blown out of the sky by the "iron dome" defense system.)

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