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jcdenton ,
@jcdenton@lemy.lol avatar

Good intentions as there’s a lot of antisemitism from outside viewers, but it doesn’t set a good precedent.

Lols ,

the good intentions are a pretense at best, the french governmenr is perfectly aware that criticism of zionism is not antisemitism

they dont want jewish folks to feel safe, they want palestinians to feel unsafe

AngryCommieKender ,

They want protesters to feel unsafe. The French government is getting sick and tired of the French national hobby, and are trying to quash the population. Thankfully the French people are absolutely incorrigible, and will continue their favorite pasttime in defiance of silly authoritarians

fosforus ,

Pro-Russia protests were just fine though even though the methods of murdering in Ukraine are not that different.

JohnDClay ,

Were there many pro Russia protests in France?

fosforus ,

I don’t know if it was many, but sure were some. Like in Europe in general: lemonde.fr/…/how-russia-is-staging-fake-protests-…

mycatiskai ,

Time to protest for free croissants. Two bread solution

Just pick a ridiculous thing to protest against but know that what they are actually protesting is for a free Palestine and a peaceful solution that allows both Israeli and Palestinian people to live without the fear and death they currently deal with.

olafurp ,

Watermelons were used by Palestinians to protest until Israelis banned it. Free watermelon protest should work.

Cyberflunk ,

youtu.be/rGVgjS98OsU

Fedizen , (edited )

Why is like 100% of western media doing this shit rather than discussing imposing real trade restrictions on Israel. (also wtf do all these simps fucking love saudi arabia?)

deft ,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

tycho ,

France is making a large part of its own defense system (fighter jet, navy ships, etc.) and for it to be financially viable, sells some models to other countries. One very good client is Saudi Arabia. You will never hear criticism from this government against Saudis.

Yawnder ,

Since when does the media impose trade restrictions?

iByteABit ,

If you thought any measures taken for Ukraine were because of morals you’re very mistaken

scarabic ,

I’m sorry, France. You are straight up Islamophobic. Go fuck yourselves.

Hadriscus ,

Our government is, and most specifically cette tête de pain sucé de Darmanin

IdealShrew ,

it’s not like there’s nothing to fear

scarabic ,

From girls wearing a veil to school?

IdealShrew ,

from an ideology that is at odds with the local culture

RubberStuntBaby ,

What about anti-Israel protests, are those still allowed?

febra ,

I’m part jewish, european, anti hamas, pro palestine. Why wouldn’t I be allowed to show my support for Palestine? Israel is trying to starve out two million people with a siege and I am not allowed to say anything about it?

AngryCommieKender ,

I’m guessing the French government is just seizing on the first opportunity they thought they had to quash the national past time of The French People. Outlaw a protest because you think the majority of the people will support such an action, and you can eventually outlaw all protests.

CallateLoSico ,
@CallateLoSico@lemmy.world avatar

Disgusting racists and fascists

JoeKrogan ,
@JoeKrogan@lemmy.world avatar

I’m sure this will sit well with the Muslim population of France. Pro Palestine is not pro hamas nor is it antisemitic.

30mag ,

The French government doesn’t care much about that.

edition.cnn.com/2023/…/un-hijab-olympics-intl/

yumpsuit ,

They sure are strutting right up to the reigning world champions of effective street protest and sticking their chins out, aren’t they?

(Your username makes me hear the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer Krogan blood rage laugh, by the way)

charonn0 ,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

Regardless of where you stand on the Israel/Hammas situation, the state shouldn’t have this kind of power.

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

The French government fears unrest. Protests in France are not peaceful, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a highly sensitive subject.

I have been on the Palestine side since the beginning of its violent colonisation, but the Hamas attacked civilians, not warriors. It was an act of pure terrorism. Very reminiscent of the events in France on November 13, 2015, when terrorists attacked concert-goers at the Bataclan.

QHC ,

Hamas is not all Palestinians.

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely. And Israel government is not all Jews. But people are especially stupid when they are angry, and boy my French people can be very angry.

lolcatnip ,

If it were truly about “unrest”, they’d ban demonstrations in support of Israel also. This is just the government telling people what opinions they’re allowed to express.

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Support of Israel is understandable in this context considering the innocent people that were killed. And I don’t think that Palestine supporters would attack people demonstrating support of Israel.

What I’m sure of though is that far-right/nazi movements will attack Palestine supporters, probably under cover. We call it “casseurs”, people who are here to break things appart to undermine the event’s credibility. Palestine support is almost left-party only in France. The goal of the far-right is to make us leftists look like violent terrorists.

On the other hand, letting this happen would weaken Macron’s government image. They can’t afford another episode of violence, even if it would weaken the left, it would much certainly enforce the far-right much more.

So in the end, yeah fuck that.

Zaktor ,

Support of Israel is understandable in this context considering the innocent people that were killed.

Innocent people are actively being killed in Gaza as we speak.

What I’m sure of though is that far-right/nazi movements will attack Palestine supporters, probably under cover. We call it “casseurs”, people who are here to break things appart to undermine the event’s credibility. Palestine support is almost left-party only in France.

A leftwing event being attacked shouldn’t undermine the legitimacy of the left. A false flag attack on a pro-Israel demonstration might though.

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Innocent people are innocent people. You cannot cherry pick who deserves human rights and who doesn’t.

The fact that the murderer state of Israel killed and continues to kill innocent people is not an excuse for the barbarism we’ve witnessed.

I will always stand with Palestine, but certainly not for the terrorist Hamas.

Zaktor ,

Innocent people are innocent people. You cannot cherry pick who deserves human rights and who doesn’t.

Yes, and by saying supporting Israel was understandable and thus wouldn’t be banned, the implication was that supporting Palestine was not understandable. No one is holding pro-Hamas rallies in France, they’re holding pro-Palestine rallies.

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

the implication was that supporting Palestine was not understandable.

I absolutely never said that. The “thus” is entirely yours. I never talked about pro-hamas rallies.

I said that the Macron’s government fears that pro-Palestine rallies degenerate into violent riots.

I also never said I agree with the interdiction, as I’m ready to fight far-right-wingers. Always have been.

jarfil ,

Demonstrations in support of Israel have not (yet) ended up in burning stuff in the street.

France doesn’t have a “free speech” clause before the “be civil” clause. In the US you can be an ass in the name of free speech, in France you can be civil or shut up.

scarabic ,

France does this because of Charlie Hebdo.

The US didn’t even do this over 9/11.

WhiteHawk , (edited )

Tbf there weren’t a lot of pro-Al Qaeda protests in the US after 9/11 (and btw there were a lot more islamist terror attacks in France than just Charlie Hebdo)

mwguy ,

Europeans don’t believe in free speech.

jarfil ,

Europeans believe in being civil first.

mwguy ,

We just wish you’d man the fuck up and stop saying you do have free speech. Shits annoying.

jarfil ,

We’re allowed to straight up lie to a judge in order to defend ourselves… while “everything you say can be used against you”, so much for free speech.

Honytawk ,

Because we believe in freedom of expression.

We do indeed do not follow US laws. Strange how the world works, right?

mwguy ,

freedom of expression.

That’s also not true, as evidenced by this ban on expression.

Lols ,

you can tell because this decision by the french government is currently seeing universal fucking praise

gamermanh ,

Damn, France taking an L on this one

Jilanico ,
@Jilanico@lemmy.world avatar

L for Liberté

potterpockets ,

I mean thats the only one that matters clearly. Who even need Égalité or Fraternité? /s

Time to start threatening to roll out Le Madame.

phoneymouse ,

Liberté to protest for government approved causes

erranto ,

I don’t now how do we still consider France a democracy . Controlling public opinion by banning protests and controlling the narrative through billionaires’ owned media, isn’t what comes to my mind when thinking about democracy, reducing it to the freedom to choosing representatives is a slippery slope towards authoritarianism

joneskind ,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah Macron and his goons are out of control. I’m 45 yo and I’ve never seen a President that tyrannic and authoritarian, and he’s self-proclaimed centrist. Even the right wing governments I’ve known never went that far. And it’s not going to get any better.

Historic parties have been wiped out from existence in the last 10 years. There are three major parties left. The far-left run by a grumpy old egomaniac (Mélenchon) that ruins any chance of a left win. The center (Macron) which is definitely more right leaning than the historic Right party. The far-right (Lepen/Bardella) which is everything like the current US Republican Party, without the weirdos and outright liars (making it way more dangerous).

My country is an awful mess right now.

jarfil ,

Sounds like the same way we still consider the US a democracy.

phoneymouse ,

Does France have free speech protections? Seems like this would be unconstitutional in the US, but not sure what laws exist there.

erranto ,

They have freedom of the press, but no freedom of speech they way it is guaranteed through the US constitution. in fact they have laws against hate speech and antisemitism.

phoneymouse ,

Interesting, it would seem one can support a Palestinian state and oppose retaliation against innocent Palestinian civilians for the actions of an extremist group without being engaged in hate speech or antisemitism, however much the west really struggles with this concept.

erranto ,

They know which side they stand on and they want all their citizens to align to it.

phoneymouse ,

If that’s their justification then did they forget what democracy is about? It’s quite literally the opposite of having the government determine the people’s stance.

roguetrick ,

They're democratic, just not particularly pluralistic. Everybody's gotta be culturally French, very tyranny of the majority types.

jnplch ,

Because it’s a stick to beat Muslim citizens with. It’s what all conservative French governments have been doing for the last 15 years, more or less openly depending on Le Pen’s (father or daughter) polling numbers. Darmanin is about as anti-Muslim pro-police-state as they come.

Cryophilia ,

“Freedom of speech” as it’s known in the US is slightly misnamed. It’s more accurately “freedom from government regulation of speech”, and the EU doesn’t really have the same protections.

SHITPOSTING_ACCOUNT ,

Most European countries do have free speech protections, but with much more limitations than in the US. (IIRC the US would also not allow e.g. speech calling for a lynch mob, as long as it’s specific enough.)

Various forms of hate speech, including support for terrorist organizations, are covered by those. Terrorist usually isn’t just what the government dislikes; it usually requires (or is subject to review by) a court decision.

There are obvious arguments against such rules, but there are very few social benefits to letting people support literal child murdering terrorists, call for the lynching of certain groups of people, claim that the Holocaust never happened and should be repeated (sic), or just march up and down the street in Nazi uniforms showing off their right arms much to the dismay of any survivors, their descendants, and the people who would be next on the list.

The main risk is the government abusing its power to ban all anti-government protests. Europe has decided that this risk is small enough with all checks and balances in place to be worth the social benefit. The US has decided otherwise.

mwguy ,

IIRC the US would also not allow e.g. speech calling for a lynch mob, as long as it’s specific enough.

Participation in a lynvh mob is illegal, but calling for one I don’t believe has been tested in court and would likely not pass judicial review (IANAL).

Wodge ,
@Wodge@lemmy.world avatar

Trump has been calling for violence regarding his many court cases, and has since been put under a gag order. Calls for violence do not seem to be protected under the 1st amendment.

mwguy ,

You can’t loose your rights in the US without due process. Trump is under a gag order after a valid due process made it so.

hiddengoat ,

They have a lot of things that can be set on fire. That's a form of free speech protection.

Cryophilia ,

More importantly, they have a police force that won’t massacre protesters.

ArmokGoB ,

They shelled our peaceful protest in southern California with tear gas mortars. Peaceful protest isn’t even de facto legal in the US.

Stuka ,

Lol there is nothing about this comment that isn’t over the top dramaticism.

theacharnian ,
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

The government of France bans protests… I’ve heard that one before I think. What did the French do after?

xkforce ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    WalrusDragonOnABike ,

    When did the yellow vests cut off heads?

    xkforce ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    WalrusDragonOnABike ,

    Seems like a pretty reasonable reaction to me? What other notable protests would people who didn't die 200 years ago think of? I don't really follow French news, so maybe I'm missing other more recent stuff?

    xkforce ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    wildginger ,

    I think youre just massively overreacting because you only know a single moment in fances history.

    The obvious answer to “oh, what did they do last time they banned protests?” Is “they started a protest about it.”

    France protests at the drop of a hat. Banning one of their top 10 favorite pasttimes is obviously going to cause a protest.

    WalrusDragonOnABike ,

    As wild pointed out, France has a reputation for frequent and massive protests regularly (compared to places like the US). Like, I was partly joking about the recent news thing because its a meme at this point. Obviously I don't know what was in the mind of theacharnian, but my first thought was to think about what most recently happened when France made major news for protests against banning protests.

    PunnyName ,

    I think you’ve lost the plot.

    Cryophilia ,

    It’s a pretty Eurocentric take to think that the yellow vest protests are on everyone’s radar.

    roguetrick ,

    We're taking about France. I'm American and like BBQ but I'm not going to complain about not following international news when we're in a fucking thread in a comment section talking about fucking France.

    Cryophilia ,

    Sure but we’re in world news, not France news. We’re talking about France but you can’t expect everyone to be familiar with French politics.

    WalrusDragonOnABike ,

    I'd say it's more of a g8ish centrism. I don't care about French news in particular. But their protests get a lot of world new attention. I doubt equivalent protests in a place like Hungary would get similar attention, but it would if it were Japan.

    formergijoe ,

    Eat cake?

    Hadriscus ,

    We beheaded the cake

    thrawn ,

    Every government seems to know the people won’t actually do that anymore. Peaceful protest was encouraged when the alternative was violence, but now that it’s not, it can be safely banned. The French are ironically a great example— they are notorious for their protests and revolution, yet when the government ignored them and raised retirement age, nothing happened.

    I’m not saying this is good or bad, nor calling for action. It’s merely an observation. I further observe that perhaps this is the humanity tamed enough for governments to once again put the people last, but with the firepower to enforce it eternally. We need good people seeking public office to prevent this, and other solutions.

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