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Tenacious D’s Newcastle show postponed after comment about Trump assassination attempt

The latest show on Tenacious D’s Australian tour has been postponed after senator Ralph Babet demanded the pair be deported following an apparent joke about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump.

American comedy rock duo Jack Black and Kyle Gass were due to perform in Newcastle on Tuesday evening, but the show – part of the band’s Spicy Meatball Tour – was cancelled without notice on Tuesday afternoon.

Concert promoter Frontier Touring said on social media that it regretted “to advise that Tenacious D’s concert tonight at Newcastle Entertainment Centre has been postponed”.

Video from the event showed (Kyle) Gass being presented with a birthday cake and told to “make a wish” as he blew out the candles. Gass then appeared to say “don’t miss Trump next time” – just hours after the shooting at Trump’s rally in Pennsylvania that left the former president injured.

john89 ,

Can’t make jokes without getting deported from Australia?

Politics really is just a show for morons.

Evil_Shrubbery ,

I mean, it used to be that you got deported to Australia for spicy comments about the ruling class.

tacosanonymous ,

Oh how the turntables.

Evilcoleslaw ,

It’s either that or a booting.

BakerBagel ,

Australia is essentially just Texas without guns. It’s run by an ultra-consvervative government that doesn’t give two shits about anything other than resources extraction and pretending aboriginal populations don’t exist.

shrodes ,

Uhhh no. The current government is a centre-left party not too dissimilar to the US Democrats.

They’re still fucking useless but at least they’re not dangerously incompetent like the last few right wing governments, or dangerously competent as the current opposition leader (who is an ex-cop) would be in power

Moneo ,

Y’all are fucking weird. When a right winger makes comments encouraging violence, you denounce it and demand that person face the consequences of their actions. But the Trump assassination attempt has revealed to me that a lot of you are just as reactionary as right wingers. Trump is a horrible person and the world would be better off without him, but if you can’t see why assassinating him is not only morally wrong, but also just a bad thing for anyone who has faith we can win the fight against fascism, then quite frankly you’ve lost the fucking plot.

Kyle went made a joke that condoned an assassination attempt hours after it happened. Literally everyone involved, including Jack Black, and Kyle himself realize that what he said was extremely inappropriate.

Literally everyone in the fucking world realizes that political assassinations are a bad thing, but y’all are over here in your bubble thinking it was totally justified because Trump is a horrible person.

Are you in favour of police brutality? Are you in favour of capital punishment? Why do you get to decide which violence is appropriate and which violence is inappropriate?

Seriously fucking annoyed with Lemmy’s user base right now.

SeducingCamel ,

Shinzo’s turned out pretty well

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, assassination apologist.

SeducingCamel ,

Lmfao happily. Hope we get a two for one

Ibuthyr ,

How is it difficult to understand that an assassination attempt at an extremely bad person (a fucking pedo mind you) who might be governing the world’s strongest economy is absolutely something to root for? This asshole is destroying the USA and any credibility it had left. This cunt is going to be used by nazis all over the world. This sphincter face is bad for the entire world. He demonstrated it once when the worldwide nazification wasn’t as advanced as it is now. Next time will be catastrophic.

Fuck this piece of shit. I hope someone sends a fucking quadcopter with C4 strapped to it in his fucking asshole of a face and blows him to pieces.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, advocating violence.

aesthelete ,

Literally everyone in the fucking world realizes that political assassinations are a bad thing, but y’all are over here in your bubble thinking it was totally justified because Trump is a horrible person.

As someone who would have been glad he was dead, that’s not the entirety of the reasoning. Plenty of horrible people don’t deserve to be killed.

However, Trump is a specific type of “horrible person”. He’s one that is campaigning to be king for four years again (thanks to the supreme court and the toadies that make up congress), after having just fucked up the entire country for four years and then trying to overthrow the government because he lost an election. This asshole not only evaded but also destroyed the system of any other type of justice he can face.

He’s extremely likely to bring down whatever is left of our democracy when he (seemingly inevitably) returns to power in around six months.

So, I don’t give a single fuck about his troubles.

EDIT: “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

Zaktor ,

And there are very literally hundreds of thousands of people who are dead because of him and his intentional choices to choose politics over public health in a deadly pandemic. When I saw the news I thought, while it could just be someone acting politically, there are also a lot of people who lost cherished family members to his actions and now see him not only not seeing any consequences, but on the path to do it all again. I’m surprised this is the first serious attempt, frankly.

rainynight65 ,

It wasn’t too long ago that right wingers were marching the streets in the state of Victoria, calling for the then-Premier to be hanged. One woman who later got elected to the Victorian parliament said she wouldn’t rest until she saw him hanging from the end of a rope.

Guess who didn’t oppose those calls for violence? The same people who got their knickers in a twist over this one, that’s right.

rainynight65 ,

They’re not getting deported. The senator who made that demand is on the fringe, doesn’t belong to any major party or group, and speaks for nobody but himself. He couldn’t have dialled up the histrionics any more if he’d actually tried.

pyre ,

as always, they’re based.

i don’t think that idiot killing him would accomplish anything but don’t pretend it would’ve been a sad day if we lost a SELF-PROCLAIMED WANNABE DICTATOR.

TommySalami , (edited )

I tentatively agree. The man himself I have no sympathy for, but an assassination of presidential nominee would have made everything even worse. GOP would get a huge boost, and could replace Trump with someone that is actually competent enough to fully implement their 2025 treason-esque bullshit. Not to mention how much that would have inflamed an already looney tunes level of political discourse.

It’s also just not how we should do things in America. Call me a hopeless patriot, but we should try to live up to the ideals we espouse.

razorwiregoatlick ,
@razorwiregoatlick@lemmy.world avatar

Why does everyone say they would get a boost? Literally no one who is going to vote for Biden is going to change their vote because of that. At most it would energize the base but Republicans don’t really have an issue with that like Democrats anyway.

pyre ,

the problem isn’t that a replacement candidate energizes republican voters, it’s that TFG energizes democratic voters. he invokes a lot of negative partisanship. there are a lot of people who think “bOtH sIdEs aRe tHe sAmE”, but more people think so when one of the sides isn’t the orange turd, so with him gone there would likely be less turnout for democrats.

idk why people keep forgetting how unpopular he is and always was. the reason biden is getting his ass kicked in the polls isn’t because his opponent is popular. it’s because he’s giving major “died years ago and being weekend at bernie’sd through the election season” vibes.

Zaktor ,

He was shot by a conservative. Why would there be a boost? It’s not like this would be in an alternate universe where he was shot by an antifa supersoldier. If Joe Biden got shot by a Democratic loner people would think “man that’s weird”, not “we have to punish the Republicans”.

TommySalami ,

I don’t think it would prompt some kind of vindictive vote. That side of it is only going to energize those who were vehemently republican anyway. Republicans would hammer on any and all sympathy they can eke from having their candidate assassinated (regardless of the truth they will say it was the left, and at best people will think the guy was just crazy), and the average person only half paying attention will eat it up. Dems would be even more hamstrung in their rhetoric against the GOP considering the gravity of an event like that. Even with that aside, they’re now running Joe Biden against whichever face the GOP tells their voters to line up behind – who you can bet will be all in on the kind of stuff that will do even more lasting damage to our country. Biden is not a strong candidate, and without the uniquely unlikable personality and character of Trump I’m not sure there’s enough motivation amongst voters to carry him to another term.

But all of that was a lot to type, so I just said it would give them a massive boost

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I don’t think Trump’s death would solve anything.

The only positive outcome is for him to get trashed in the polls in november.,

FiniteBanjo ,

In the short term, the GOP would have to decide on a new candidate, and one of them literally shot the ear off the current candidate so fat fucking chance, mate.

Nurgle ,

Pragmatically it definitely would. Republicans have a fairly unpopular platform they’re running behind a demagogue. The rest of the party “stars” have the personality of a wet paper towel so hard to imagine them garnering anywhere near the enthusiasm.

shadowedcross ,

It might not solve anything, but at least he’d be gone. We all know he isn’t going to be punished in any meaningful way for anything he’s done, so at least him being killed would mean he could no longer bring harm to anyone.

Zahille7 ,

I think it would have. It would kick something off, but I have a feeling whatever got started would end fairly quickly.

Also, like another reply to your comment said, the other possible candidates don’t have nearly the same amount of popularity with “the base”

TheEighthDoctor ,

It would, you don’t see people screaming “Republican Party!”, you see them screaming “Trump!”.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Ok but what would they scream if Trump was assassinated? It wouldn’t solve the hyper partisan hatred.

pyre ,

fascists worship whoever’s at the top. they will fall in line.

TheEighthDoctor ,

Not really, it died in Spain with Franco and in Italy with Mussolini and there was no second coming of the Nazi party in Argentina where all the officials ran to.

pyre , (edited )

except the republican party isn’t any of these parties. it was fascist before him and will stay so after him. anyone who thinks one man dying will suddenly stop the republican fascist party from enacting their agenda that they’ve been working on for decades is either wishcasting or has been in a coma for the last half century.

InternetUser2012 ,

He’ll get stomped in November. Volunteer to drive people to vote, anything you can do to help others have their vote heard. Something the right works VERY hard on making sure doesn’t happen because they know if everyone votes, they lose. If you think about it, that’s the biggest problem we have. We have a minority making terrible decisions for us, because they’re just in it for the money and their sponsors, the corporations. Their voters are fools that are fueled by hatred and stupidity.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Their voters are fools that are fueled by hatred and stupidity.

Whole-heartedly agreed on this.

Perhaps this is arrogance, but I have the strongly held opinion that the vast majority of conservative voters vote against their own interests.

InternetUser2012 ,

I agree with you 100%. They do in order to cause hurt on others. They don’t see irony either.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

in order to cause hurt on others

Actually that’s not my experience. This might be a really simplistic view but in Australia it seems the left supports the working class, and the right favors the corporate class.

My parents, now in their 80s, have been firmly “working class” their whole lives, and are now retired and living on a government pension.

They’ve voted for the conservatives their entire lives simply because of conservative values around social issues. They don’t seem to realise that their preferred party is also reducing social benefits like their pensions.

I see this exact dynamic a lot. As in… “my life is so hard because there are no social services or financial support, it must be the fault of immigrants, so I’ll vote for conservatives who will be mean to immigrants and poor people, and make me feel better about my hard working self”.

Which leads me to the next category… a lot of Asian migrants are deeply conservative, and the conservative party is constantly seeking to make migration from non european countries more and more difficult. My partner is a first generation migrant from Asia, so this is something I see a lot from her and her compatriots.

That said, I guess there’s a strong undercurrent of, as you say, people just being so miserable and beat down they feel like someone must be to blame, and if a conservative govt is going to put some minority under the thumb then that might feel pretty good.

IDK. Shit is fucked.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Without a head, the body withers.

pyre ,

not so with a hydra

Honytawk ,

It wouldn’t be a hydra.

If you chop off a head, then 2 heads of half its size would appear.

It isn’t like the Trump base would double in size.

pyre ,

it’s not about the base. it’s about democratic turnout. TFG not being there would likely reduce turnout. that’s not good for the democrats.

merc ,

It would definitely accomplish something. It’s not clear if that would necessarily be a positive thing, but it would definitely be a pivotal moment in history. Even just the attempted assassination might eventually be seen as pivotal.

The right-wing is full of so many contradictory forces, and right now it’s only Trump’s cult of personality that’s holding them together. It seems very likely to me that post-Trump they’re going to fracture. If Trump becomes dictator he’ll probably groom Don Jr. to succeed him, and he’ll eliminate anybody who might question that decision. But, right now, Jr. is not in a position to take over from dad, so if Trump were no longer in the picture, there would be a power vacuum and massive infighting.

But, if the assassination attempt had succeeded, there would probably have been a lot more political killings, and just violence in general.

sudo ,

Kyle Gass was based, not Jack. Jack Black denounced the statement, canceled the tour and put the entire duo on hiatus. Utter sellout.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

Since google puts twitter feeds at the top and that cesspit is full of idiots i decided to check lemmy to see if i was alone in thinking this is a huge over reaction.

Pretty safe to say that people of lemmy are my people.

Personally i see it as a joke, maybe one in bad taste. Maybe one that shouldn’t have been said. But a joke none the less. Its certainly interesting to see how the right react when the shoe is on the other foot.

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Literally my first thought was “who the fuck cares”

Whether you find a joke funny or not, or in poor taste, or whatever… “WAAAAAH I GONNA KICK YOU OUT OF THE COUNTRY BECAUSE WORDS HURT” is not the appropriate level of response.

And besides, I thought these fucks were all about being tough, growing a thicker skin, getting over it etc

Suddenly it’s not the same when it’s one of theirs in the crosshairs this time? Or I guess iron sights, if I read correctly.

krashmo ,

Is this the same angle you took when reacting to Dave Chapelle’s recent controversies? For the record, I agree with you, I just don’t see a lot of consistency on either side when it comes to stuff like this. Jokes are one issue where “both sides are the same” isn’t too far off. People in general pick and choose what they’re offended by and can’t easily follow their own advice to let it go when the subject matter touches one of their pet issues.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

I dont know if this is the same. I dont agree with Kyle Gas’ joke that trump should be shot, but i do believe it was a joke and not a genuine wish for harm.

Chapelle, on the other hand, is taking a stance on gender which i disagree with. He’s not telling jokes. He is taking a position. And since i disagree with him and i find his position to be dismissive and one of erasure which i wholeheartedly disagree with, i find it very difficult to continue to watch his comedy.

In short, kyle doesnt want to hurt trump, chapelle does want to pretend trans people dont exist. So i think its fundamentally different.

krashmo ,

I think your interpretation of the two situations has more to do with your political leanings than the content itself. At a basic level they are both comments made by people who get paid to make others laugh. You can assign motives to either of them that would make them more or less palatable to specific people, and it seems like you’ve chosen your path in that regard, but I don’t think it makes sense to spin one in a negative way and dismiss the other as a harmless joke. In my opinion they’re either both harmless or both intolerable. Anything less is just projection in one form or another.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

But chapelle made none standup/comedy related statements about gender and trans people. Not everything is political. I dislike trump in a huge way. I think he is a horrible human being who doesn’t deserve to run a country. He will cause so much damage if re-elected. But i do not wish him harm.

I dont believe kyle does either. I’m not sure how that’s political. It’s more of a moral stance and my view on kyles moral stance.

Chapelle is transphobic, also not a political issue, even if it’s an issue that political commentators like to argue about. Gender is a social issue that has been heavily politicised, but my views on it are not related to politics.

So i dont put them both in the same camp. I dont agree with either of them, but there is clearly a difference between denying trans peoples existence outside of your comedy and making an off-hand joke on stage at a concert. Especially if you apologise for the joke instead of doubling down like dave did.

krashmo ,

“Kyle does not wish Trump harm” and “Dave is transphobic” are both judgments that you’ve made. You’re entitled to hold those opinions but it is important to recognize that you’ve used the same kind of evidence (jokes they made) to reach opposite conclusions about the two men. You dismissed one as a joke that does not reflect the character of the speaker and used the other as indisputable evidence of a character flaw.

The fact that these conclusions line up with your own political beliefs is absolutely relevant because it helps you understand why you are doing it. It’s probably subconscious but you’re viewing the world through a distorted lens when you make inconsistent value judgments like this. Correcting those distortions and becoming more consistent is part of what it means to mature as a human being.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

My belief that kyle doesn’t wish trump harm is 100% my opinion. It may be a belief i have formed through a “distorted lense”, yes, that is very possible. But to call it a conclusion is not exactly correct. I will change my belief and draw a conclusion when the evidence is presented.

My conclusion about dave is one drawn from statements made by dave. Not his jokes, not his standup. Dave has continually reaffirmed this stance, he denies the existence of trans people and repeatedly states that there are 2 genders. A line he said comes to mind “gender is a fact” its not one incident, its many. I would say to draw a conclusion based of one incident would be “distorted” but to base it on years of anti trans rhetoric is quite a clear and clean cut conclusion to draw…

testfactor ,

If Kyle Gass came out and said, “I meant what I said, I’d have been and would be very pleased if he was killed,” would you consider the reaction justified?

If Chappelle came out and said, “I absolutely don’t wish harm on any trans people. It’s all just part of the act,” would you find his jokes acceptable?

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

In order of your questions.

Yes, the reaction would be justified. If he genuinely meant he wanted trump dead, despite the fact that i think trump is a trash human being who will further destroy america and cause pain and suffering to millions, i do not wish him death and any celebrity in a position of influence should not be inciting violence like trump did.

Yes, absolutely. He would have to justify a lot of things he said, but if it became clear that he was joking the entire time and that it’s just an act, then i would accept that.

testfactor ,

So, is there any set of jokes a comedian could make that are filled with enough punching down or hateful rhetoric that you would condemn, even if the comedian was adamant they were just jokes and that he doesn’t believe anything that’s actually racist/sexist/transphobic/pro-genocide/etc?

Or is it a “no true Scotsman” thing where, if the jokes are bad enough, you just decide that he must actually mean them for real, and therefore you can condemn them out of hand?

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

Why does it need to go to the extreme? Are you telling me you have this all figured out theres no room for improvement in your view on morality? Im navigating this as it comes. Anything i say or have said is and should always be subject to change. And im also not willing to be the one who sets the bar here. Im not the one who decides whats ok and whats not. That is a collective thing that must be decided by society. You are too adamant in your beliefs for me to take you seriously. Its not on the individual to decide. Its up to everyone.

I would say, yes there must be a point where i would condemn a comedian based on jokes they are telling. But im still working that out.

I think intent matters. I think it is a strong factor in deciding if a joke is ok or not. To me the joke was more about kyles political leanings. I dont think he was advocating for murder. I think he was using that attempted assasination as a vehicle to state he doesn’t want trump to be president. Sure, there are better ways of saying that but if you truely belive there is no room for nuance here then i belive it is a failing on your part to understand the joke as opposed to a failure on my part to have a divine sense of morality.

testfactor ,

Of course there’s nuance. Of course every set of jokes fall on a spectrum from universal to heinous.

And obviously a lot of factors go in to deciding if something is truly unacceptable, up to and including if the person truly believes what they’re joking about.

I’m not really arguing against any of that, and I think we’re in fact largely in agreement on that score.

The point I’m actually fighting is one of introspection. To what degree is your opinion on whether a joke is okay or not dependant on your personal political leanings?

How much are you using things like “whether they meant it or not” as a post-justification to make you feel less biased about why you took the position you did? If I provided a hundred different jokes by a hundred different comedians, would your “this is acceptable” vs “this is not” graph more align with a graph of how much they meant what they said, or with how left or right leaning the joke was?

And maybe for you, it wouldn’t be politically skewed at all. Maybe you truly hold an objective metric that can be applied across the board, without a bias towards accepting more things that align to your own beliefs. But you must admit, if so, that it would make you an overwhelming outnumbered minority.

And furthermore, surely you would admit, that most people who do have the “it was a joke against my candidate, and therefore it’s unacceptable, but it’s fine if the joke was about the enemy,” mindset, are quick to argue that they are in fact the most objective person on earth and only make decisions about acceptability based on cool hard logic and rules, not partisanship.

Zaktor ,

Many political leanings are based on morality, so when making a judgement on morality, saying they shouldn’t be involved is nonsense. It’s not hypocritical to say joking about Klansmen dying is cool and good, but joking about BLM protesters dying is fucked up. There’s no enlightened objective viewpoint where you just pretend that there’s no moral difference in the targets because believing racism is evil is “political”.

testfactor ,

Sure, but it’s equally as unenlightened to say that politics hasn’t devolved into tribalism.

And let it not be missed that your example has one group actively participating in illegal and violent activity and one group that isn’t. The two groups aren’t equivalent on their face.

A more apples to apples comparison would be joking about people at a Trump rally getting killed vs BLM protestors getting killed.

And it absolutely would be hypocritical to joke about the one and not the other, and justifying it to yourself as being fine because people who go to Trump rallies are racist is in fact just tribalism.

To phrase it another way, it sounds like you are saying, to some greater or lesser degree, that, “it’s fine because my morality is perfect, and therefore anyone not on team ‘me’ is obviously pure evil and therefore anything said about them or done to them is clearly and perfectly justified as they aren’t people deserving of moral consideration.”

Zaktor ,

Sure, if you change the morality of a question, it changes the morality of the question. And it’s not illegal to be in the Klan. And BLM protesters did break laws. But the point was not that it’s ok specifically to joke about the Klan getting killed, it’s to illustrate that morality is clearly relevant and intertwined with political belief. People are joking about Trump simply because he’s a Republican. No one’s saying Susan Collins is fair game. It’s because he’s done serious harm and will continue to do serious harm.

Moral relativism is not morality. It’s not “enlightened” to think that because some other people have terrible morality that your own morality shouldn’t guide your beliefs and actions.

testfactor ,

I think you’d be surprised at the number of people who would in fact say that Susan Collins is fair game, but that’s neither here nor there.

I think we’re largely on the same page honestly. I think our difference, if there is one, is the degree to which we think morality vs tribalism is the true influencer.

And this is a bit of a tangent, but I think this is exacerbated by the fact that morals are held to varying degrees of closeness. As an example, everyone agrees that cheating on your SO is wrong. Everyone also agrees that punching someone in the face is wrong. But if a husband cheats on his wife, and she slaps him, you will have people take (often very vehement) different sides on the issue, depending on which “sin” they consider to be worse.

And so, expanding that to the tribalism issues at hand, the majority of people on both sides are attempting to stand for and push for virtues that they believe are most important. Sometimes that’s inclusivity and caring for the poor. Sometimes it’s family unity and economic security.

And don’t hear me wrong, while any of that can be turned towards hate by malicious actors, it is clear that that is occuring on one side more than the other. But that doesn’t make the virtues themselves invalid.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

I just dont think that morality and politics are the same thing. I can judge a joke for its morality without it being skewed by political bias.

I think that when a former president makes jokes about nancy pelosi’s husband being attacked with a hammer, and people are laughing it up and joining in, that when someone attacks donald trump, and someone makes a joke about it, those same people should be either joining in on the joke or apologising for making their jokes in the first place.

They can’t have it both ways.

This is not a political stance because i could argue that from any side of the street. It is a moral argument that happens to be about politicians.

Replace the two subjects with anyone else, and the argument would be the same.

The thing is that i despise donald trump so much that his jokes just added to how much i dislike him. But its exactly what i expected of him and didnt lead me to despise him. No his actions as a president and as a human over the course of his career and life have lead me to that.

Kyle gas has only ever inspired me to like him. He has been a nice guy and very funny his whole career. So im inclined to think that he didnt actually wish death on the former president. Whereas if tump made the same joke i would be very inclined to think that he meant it, because he has given me very little proof to the contrary.

My view on morality is what’s skewing my opinion here, not my political bias.

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

You said it better than I could.

Although I’d be lying if I said I think KG is 100% joking.

If he’s anything like I want him to be (people never are) he’s not even 50% joking.

But either way, it’s a lot of BS for an off handed comment

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Oh, there’s plenty of inconsistency, and I’m definitely biased, no doubt about it.

(rant ahead, feel free to skip)

Of course, I agree with KG, and it’s not really a “joke” for me.

So any answer I give you will be pretty heavily skewed.

That said, I do kind of think the DC thing was a bit overblown, but I also think he turned into a piece of shit who thinks he’s allowed to punch down on others, but you aren’t allowed to punch down on any group he’s part of. “can dish it, can’t take it” crowd.

But especially given how successful his career has been (and I fully recognize his struggle in getting started), and continued to be, his complaints fall on deaf ears.

But yeah, I don’t claim to be consistent with how I judge people’s “in the moment” things, and since the people I oppose have no concept of “consistency” (as well as them actively trying to make people like me and those I love cease to exist) I don’t really see a problem with that.

There’s no point in fighting fair when you’re facing oblivion.

And krashmo this isn’t directed at you, if anyone wants to try and tell me that “that’s not what they want”, I grew up in a pretty republican heavy area, that also attracted a lot of progressive young families, so I’ve seen more violence directed at other than I care to recount. It’s not a “maybe eventually” scenario in my head. It’s “now”.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant.

krashmo ,

I get what you’re saying. I’ve got a similar background and it sounds like we have a lot in common in terms of perspective as well.

You’re right, consistency is clearly not important to the more conservative among us. That ship sailed long ago. However, that’s one of the things that I strive to be as much as possible. If one of my beliefs can’t be defended in all circumstances then I do my best to let it go, or at least recognize the fact that it’s situational and therefore not deserving of being presented as unassailable. The subject at hand is pretty inconsequential, all things considered, but I feel pretty confident in making the blanket statement that all jokes should be interpreted as such and not subject to the same scrutiny that the same statement would warrant in a different context.

Of course there are still such things as jokes in poor taste, racist jokes, mean jokes, etc. but at the end of the day a joke is what they are. It’s not a life motto or a campaign slogan it’s just something that’s supposed to make people laugh. Whether or not they accomplish that goal is largely irrelevant as long as that was the primary intent of the person who said it.

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Well said.

The only point I mildly disagree with is that all jokes should be on the same level, as some things are just… Not jokes. They simply masquerade as jokes because the person telling you their views doesn’t want the potential backlash if you disagree with them.

Chapelle’s stuff strikes me as more of that.

He’s just telling us how he feels and tries to layer it with “jokes” so he can act like he’s somehow in the right and we’re the ones who just “can’t take a joke”.

That’s pretty case dependent though, and someone who knows Chapelle better than I, or even someone with a different upbringing clearly can think differently.

There’s just so much that you could actually have a comedy routine about that’s not divisive.

Liz ,

The first set of Dave’s trans jokes included him basically saying that while he doesn’t understand trans people, he ultimately accepts them for who they are. In that era I defended the jokes because I felt it was valid to joke about stuff as long as you ultimately aren’t trying to hurt, belittle, or delegitimize ordinary people. The follow-up jokes weren’t nearly as understanding and I no longer felt like Dave cared about much beyond being a dick. He seemed to double down on the punching down without bothering to build them back up again.

Anyway, there is a fundamental difference with Trump, in that he’s downright a fascist, so joking about his death isn’t exactly punching down. It’s more like wishful thinking.

Zaktor ,

Dave Chappelle was punching way down while Kyle was punching about high up as you possibly can.

krashmo ,

You say that like “no punching down” is an unbreakable rule of comedy. Maybe in your opinion it should be but I don’t think that’s ever been true in reality, certainly not for big name comedians as a collective.

Besides, that’s only your interpretation of the situation and it requires that you assume Dave actually believes everything he says in his comedy shows which is demonstrably untrue for other subject matter he covers. You don’t assume he rapes kids even though he made a joke in that same special where that was the premise. Without that assumption there is no controversy so maybe we should stop assuming the worst about people’s intentions. That way we don’t have to concern ourselves with pointless conjecture.

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t think much of his trans material was very funny, but that doesn’t mean I have to jump to the conclusion that he’s a piece of shit like the internet wants me to. He’s a comedian with an incendiary style which makes it quite literally his job to say stuff like that.

Zaktor ,

I don’t care if Dave believes it or not, he’s attacking people from a position of power who are at danger in our society. It’s not an unbreakable rule, but it’s the core context used when trying to decide whether it’s productive. You can say a lot of terrible things about people who are hurting and elicit a chuckle from at least some subset of the population, that doesn’t make it good (in the good for society sense) comedy.

That’s why there’s a world of difference between KG and Chapelle, and no lack of consistency in people that think KG made a harmless joke and Chapelle is contributing to a trans panic that both oppresses and endangers lives. And it’s not a mistake. There have been other comics that have had off-color sets that when confronted about them thought about it and realized it could be harmful and wasn’t really that important to keep. It’s not his job to make trans jokes and that’s a very different comedy than simply being “incendiary”.

krashmo , (edited )

OK, let’s assume for the sake of the argument that everything you just said is 100% correct. Why aren’t you also saying Dave Chapelle is a pedophile, or a racist, or a homophobe? Children, racial minorities, and gay men are all other groups he made jokes about and they all fit your criteria of “people at danger in our society”.

The fact that transphobic is the only descriptor I hear about that show suggests to me that this is not really the criteria you’re using to evaluate the situation, it’s merely convenient cover to give when pressed that will pacify most people. At minimum it means you’re giving those other comments a pass as jokes and choosing not to do so with his trans jokes and that is absolutely inconsistent no matter how you try and spin it.

Zaktor ,

I haven’t listened to his recent comedy to hear the context of the other horrible topics he feels are integral to his “comedy”. What were the pedophilic jokes? What were the racist jokes? What were the homophobic jokes? Was he saying the kids were asking for it? Or black people are the cause of their own discrimination? And like transphobic jokes, there’s really not much reason for him to have any material about gay people in his sets. It’s not his lived experience, so what could he possibly have to add as an insightful observation? All he has is that they make him feel weird and put upon. I’m perfectly willing to believe Dave Chapelle is bad on multiple levels, but I don’t feel any need to give him money to investigate his other work to see if I should expand my understanding of his badness.

And I didn’t mention transphobia. You did. Presumably because it’s become a news story and was the controversy you were referencing when you asked for a comparison. Which is the same reason most people know about that particular issue and don’t run down a laundry list of other critiques. It was highlighted as particularly bad.

krashmo ,

Clearly we disagree about how to evaluate comedy, which is perfectly fine, but I think we’re running into a wall at this point. I think most of what you’re saying is reasonable, we just have different perspectives. I think this quote highlights that best:

It’s not his lived experience, so what could he possibly have to add as an insightful observation?

I don’t think you need to experience something firsthand to make jokes about it. I also don’t think comedy needs to involve insightful observations. That might be the kind of thing you find to be the most funny but that doesn’t make it a rule that needs to be followed at all times. Something you find unfunny, or even offensive, can be a genuine attempt at making people laugh. The fact that you find it offensive doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve done something wrong. In many cases it just means that you don’t like that style of comedy. A comedian telling a joke during a comedy show is not the same as a politician or other public figure justifying a bigoted statement by calling it a joke. Choosing to interpret comments that are clearly and obviously presented as jokes as some sort of expression of a deeply held belief does not seem like a logical approach to me.

daltotron ,

So, people can make the whole like, oh, this is a different context, kyle is joking, whatever whatever, right, and that’s both true and a fine argument to make. But I also think when we make this like, freedom as a principle argument, right, free speech as a principle, argument, it isn’t necessarily hypocritical.

We’re just not prioritizing freedom, prioritizing free speech, as the highest possible value that trumps all other values. I think kind of by necessity, it can’t be. The idea of free speech is logically incoherent if you take it to the extreme, because you could just define speech as being anything. Harmful acts, smearing poop on the bathroom walls, whatever. So you have to put a limit on it, and then those external values are going to be what places the limit on it.

Those external values of “I agree with kyle gass” vs “I agree with dave chapelle”. Agreeing with either argument, beyond that, thinking either argument, had in the public sphere, is worthwhile, that’s what has to define the limits of speech and freedom and what has to drive the outlook on it. I might oppose the poop swastika in the rec center bathroom, but I might think the ACAB poop smear in the nazi bar bathroom is maybe okay, even if it’s a little misguided or kind of just stupid or whatever.

There has to be a core value there. It’s not necessarily hypocritical to believe that political violence can be called for, or justified against your foes necessarily, and then think that the same thing shouldn’t be done to you on the nature of your ideology strictly being better. If my foes are basically just evil, straight up, yeah, probably at the very least stop them from like, having undue economic influence, which depending on who you ask, is gonna be some form of economic violence by nature of stripping away their agency or property or whatever. That doesn’t necessarily strike me as hypocritical, or not believing in equal rights or anything, it just strikes me as pragmatic.

Lucidlethargy ,

It’s ironically very against the American ideology to do what he’s doing. Free speech is kind of a big deal here. Again, ironically, the conservatives talk about this way, way more often than anyone else.

abbadon420 ,

They shouldn’t kick him out of the country. They should kick him out of the band and write a song about it. And than write a song about how they got back together

SacredHeartAttack , (edited )
@SacredHeartAttack@lemmy.world avatar

I literally just had this argument with a friend. I made the same points as you. It was tongue and cheek. While not an OK think to say, it’s comedians making jokes. Cancelling a tour and deportation seems like a gross overreaction to me.

Zaktor ,

Especially from an explicitly politically left performer like Black. Grow some balls man.

paddirn ,

This is a taste of what’s to come if Trump is reelected. Mocking Dear Leader in good taste or bad becomes a punishable offense. Freedom of Speech goes out the window, disrespecting snowflakes in office is not allowed.

InternetUser2012 ,

Unless they’re democrats, then he can just order them to be killed.

underthesign ,

Ah, but you forget that nobody has a sense of humour any more. We can’t laugh at ourselves let alone anybody else.

aStonedSanta ,

He’s a comedian for fucks sake. He’s supposed to make jokes. Whether dark or not. I’m so tired of manufactured corporate outrage

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Babet asking for deportation is not the real story - he’s just an idiot making ridiculous statements for attention.

I don’t really buy into the “just a joke” defense. There’s plenty of things one could say “as a joke” that we would and should denounce as a society, and political violence is one of them. Celebrities have a responsibility to uphold social norms or at the very least not to normalise concepts we will not tolerate as a society including political violence.

Yes, you and me can see that what was said was “just a joke” but there’s plenty of people who would hear that joke and assume that wishing Trump would be assassinated is a normal opinion.

[Jack Black][(www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-16/…/104105448) has cancelled the rest of the tour, and not because of Babet’s comments, but more likely because he can’t continue with Gass.

Zaktor ,

There’s plenty of things one could say “as a joke” that we would and should denounce as a society, and political violence is…

Not one of them. Kyle isn’t a militia member calling to arms and no vulnerable people are being harmed by being irreverent about a fascist preaching violence barely missing the consequences. Don’t punch down, but do punch Nazis.

Celebrities have a responsibility to uphold social norms or at the very least not to normalise concepts we will not tolerate as a society including political violence.

What the fuck do you think comedy is about?

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Well I think comedy is obviously not about assassinating politicians I don’t like, and apparently jack black agrees with me.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

Thats just PR damage control. Jack Black is a very wealthy person, he just made a new kung fu panda film, his image with the public is that of an extremely friendly, kind to all humans and fans, sort of person. He doesn’t remotely fit in with a crowd that makes jokes about killing the former president. He is distancing himself from it and its what anyone in his position would do if they care more about money and fame than politics.

It has lowered my op8nion of him though. Hes not the nice guy that he presents. Hes just another rich out of touch celebrity if he follows this path. He should support kyle and defend him. His influence is stronger than kyles and could sway public opinion that kyle was 100% joking.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

He is distancing himself from it and its what anyone in his position would do if they care more about money and fame than politics.

This is a post hoc fallacy. As in someone who cares more about money would distance themselves from this, but that doesn’t mean that JB cares more about money. IMO, any self respecting celebrity that doesn’t want western politics to descend into violent adversarial combat would also distance themselves from a comment like that.

kyle was 100% joking.

It doesn’t matter. As I’ve said some jokes are completely inappropriate.

Mr_Dr_Oink ,

Totally fair about the first comment. Its fair to say that jack black may have other reasons for trying to distance himself from it. But it was a huge decision to drop the tour and potentially the band based on one bad joke. Its got PR written all over it. But i accept that it might not be money, or at least not just about money.

Second comment is more subjective. There are many who would disagree with you.

Personally i think that if kyle, even if it was only in the moment, thought it was appropriate to make that joke then it should be taken as an indication of how scary it is that trump might become president again. That people laughed should be an indication that people dislike trump enough to not be shocked by the comment. The comments from people defending kyle should show that hatred for trump runs deep and perhaps it should be considered when determining what to do about this.

If people are ok wih a joke about killing trump then maybe people should be looking more seriously at what trump is doing and what he stands for.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Sorry mate that’s a pretty thin argument.

Someone might be challenged to reconsider after hearing a joke like that, but many millions will just think that sort of opinion is normal. It’s ok at want political opponents dead.

febra ,

Oh no political violence is so bad!

Go tell that the bombed out kids in Afghanistan and to all the innocents from all over the world. Cry me a river, cause I won’t shed a tear over a self proclaimed wannabe dictator. You get what you sow.

Shampiss ,

The point here is not that this comment hurts trump in some way. But that it hurts democracy. It favors violence over reason.

Many believe that the world might be better if trump was dead, but on the other side, if assassination is an acceptable solution to politics then democracy is destroyed.

The people that are against Trump are also against fascism. And supporting his murder is contradictory and essentially hurts your own cause.

Choosing to be fair and respectful to your enemy is the best course of action. Even though it might be extremely frustrating.

febra ,

I don’t trust neoliberal democracy. It has killed far too many innocents all across the world, so I personally don’t care, but I understand if others do.

catsarebadpeople ,

I’m sure all the fans that wanted to go to the show will be very thankful to the senator for cancelling the show at the last minute for political reasons. Free speech must not be allowed in Australia

OceanSoap ,

Free speech isn’t a constitutional right in Australia, or in most places. Conservative voices have been blocked from Australia before. In 2019 it was that Milo guy, and I think Lauren Southern was banned from the UK?

the_strange ,

Free speech isn’t a constitutional right in Australia

…gov.au/…/freedom-information-opinion-and-express…

I am not very well versed in Australian law, but this indicates to me that free speech is indeed protected in Australia.

Lauren Southern was banned from the UK?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Southern

She’s a far-right racist conspiracy theorist nutjob who was denied entry into the UK for spewing hatred. Her right to express herself ends where other people’s rights for freedom, health and safety begin.

digdilem ,

I am not very well versed in Australian law, but this indicates to me that free speech is indeed protected in Australia.

It aims to, but it is not a right.

See the two exclusions on the page you linked.

blocked when…

( a ) For respect of the rights or reputations of others; ( b ) For the protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals.

In this case, public order may be considered valid, although my personal view is that it wasn’t.

In Australia, humour has a long history of bad taste, but a longer history of religious repression through law. Think 1960s America - that describes much of Australian rural culture, with extra bad language. (Although NSW was a lot more tolerant when I travelled around the country)

In the UK, free speech is not possible either. See D-notices, and later super-injunctions to stop media and individuals reporting on facts.

the_strange ,

In the UK, free speech is not possible either. See D-notices, and later super-injunctions to stop media and individuals reporting on facts.

Please provide examples.

digdilem ,

Sure, although google does the heavy lifting as I’ve given the strings.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Notice

www.studysmarter.co.uk/…/super-injunction/

vodkasolution ,

( a ) For respect of the rights or reputations of others

So you can’t just insult someone, that’s not bad

JustZ , (edited )
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

That’s about defamation and privacy, we have the same law in America. The First Amendment doesn’t protect defamatory speech or speech that infringes on recognized privacy rights, such as the right to self publicity, the right to be free of misappropriation of name or likeness, etc.

vodkasolution ,

Hoping a shooter would have killed someone, even Trump, is - not even borderline - hate speech, I don’t get it. Jack is right. And US laws mean nothing outside US

Zaktor ,

“Hate speech” isn’t a ban on being able to vocally hate individual people.

OceanSoap ,

Nope, see others commenting below.

And my point was, you can’t be surprised that conservatives turn around and do what the left does to them when they have the chance to. That’s why I was so against Dems ousting Trump supporters from their jobs, because I knew they would turn around and do the same if/when they had the chance.

It’s why we have to be very careful about any laws we pass when Dems are in power. Power will always swing back to Republicans at some point, and you’re fucking crazy if you think they’re not going to use those same laws to repress their political opponents

EatATaco ,

Not that I think the concert should have been cancelled. . .but isn’t asking for someone to be killed “spewing hatred”? Isn’t asking for them to actually be shot infringing on their “health and safety.” This is “if the shoe is on the other foot” example for me, it doesn’t appear that their ban was unjustified, or her ban was unjustified. Although, it probably doesn’t even really count because we are talking about two different countries here.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

The senator didn’t cancel the show, they don’t have that sort of authority.

catsarebadpeople ,

Obviously the senator didn’t literally cancel the show. They just made it happen by creating fake outrage.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

He’s the only senator for his party UAP, no one gives a shit about him.

Shit the party he represents doesn’t even actually exist as they de-registered in 2022.

He’s jumping on outrage to get his name printed in a paper, it doesn’t mean people actually do what he says.

catsarebadpeople ,

Are you claiming that he didn’t help create or spread this outrage? Even if that was true, which it’s not, why would it matter when the article that this post is about points to him directly? Not sure why you’re so adamantly making this point. What’s your goal?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Yes he did not help create this outrage, as for spreading it, no more than any of the other idiots who probably shared something on social media. This nobody is not as influential as you seem to think he is.

As for why the media is mentioning it? Because making up drama sells.

My goal is to point out that they cancelled the tour themselves. And to fix your misconception about how important this politician is. This whole story would have played out exactly the same with or without Babet, in fact many news articles on this don’t even mention him.

catsarebadpeople ,

Ok gotcha. He’s officially not very important!

abbadon420 ,

They should write a song about this whole affair

bolexforsoup ,

Unbelievable how every right winger shows up anytime a conservative white dude “just tells a joke and gets attacked by woke” but when the shoe is on the other foot they explode like the fucking Hindenburg

Don_Dickle ,

Now that is the truth. Also nice comparison with the Hindenburg

msfroh ,

It’s a wonderful comparison going back at least thirty years: www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1994/07/15

imPastaSyndrome ,

Good shit. Holy fuck they haven’t changed they’ve only gotten worse and more powerful in 30 years ouch oof owie my doomerism hurts

Appleseuss ,

So glad Limbaugh is dead.

EatATaco ,

I think “the shoe is on the other foot” is cutting both ways here. Read this thread, it’s filled with people defending banning people for hate speech, but the defending him here for literally asking for someone to be murdered.

fxt_ryknow ,

Kinda like most liberals who generally scream about better gun control/laws… But are REALLY disappointed Trump didn’t take that bullet to head directly.

bolexforsoup ,

Oof forced af my dude

Clbull ,

Postponed is kinda inaccurate…

  1. Kyle Gass’s talent agent has cut ties with him.
  2. Jack Black made a statement on Instagram to announce the tour’s cancellation and that any future Tenacious D projects were on hold indefinitely, stating that he was “blindsided” by what Kyle said and that he condemend any calls for political violence.
  3. Tenacious D were big promoters of Rock the Vote, a nonpartisan organisation dedicated to encouraging more young people to register and exercise their right to vote, to the point of planning a campus tour in partnership with them. Can’t really appear nonpartisan if you (even jokingly) wish for a presidential nominee and former US president to be assassinated.
  4. Black had a lot more to lose from this than Gass, since he’s the one with an actual Hollywood film career.
Hackworth ,

I did not mean…

BigMacHole ,

I’m sure the people upset about Kyle Gass’s statement were JUST AS UPSET when Republicans joked about Nancy Pelosi’s attempted Assassination!

Moneo ,

We’re always joking about “facing the consequences of your actions”. Kyle is facing the consequences of his actions, why are you upset about it?

Most people think that encouraging violence is a bad thing and should be denounced, do you disagree?

TheTetrapod ,

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to political violence. Some portion of the populace will justify any specific violent action, and it’s up to the history books to tell us which of those were actually justifiable. I get the feeling we’d land on different sides of this one.

Moneo ,

What does justified even mean in this context though? Are you in favour of capital punishment? Of vigilante justice?

Trump is a horrible person who, if elected, will harm the lives of very many people. I simply do not believe assassinating him is a legitimate tactic. There are so many problems inherent with political violence that I don’t even know where to start.

To me, advocating for political violence is a position detached from reality. Akin to wondering why the western world doesn’t simply declare war on Russia over their invasion of Ukraine. It may seem/be the morally correct thing to do, but the consequences of doing it are far reaching and extremely complicated.

Honestly idk what I’m trying to say other than I don’t think violence against Nazis is an effective strategy. I think it’s reactionary and short sighted and will only make the problem worse.

scarabic ,

To be fair, he was encouraging accuracy, not violence. Let us not forget that a fire fighter got killed in this shooting instead of Shitstain L’Orange

scarabic ,

Serious answer: I think it’s a worrying sign of the times if anyone thinks of political violence as anything other than abhorrent. The reasons they might: he’s stacked the highest court in the land with hacks who’ve handed him immunity. He’s succeeded on the back of lies and smear tactics. So he’s killed truth and justice, and he’s just getting started. His party have gerrymandered themselves into a perpetual obstructionist role that makes a mockery of democracy.

He’s a convicted felon and Russian asset who is about to be elected president. How far can we be taken into dystopia before “abhorrent political violence” becomes “absolutely necessary revolutionary action?”

vxx ,

Yes?

scarabic ,

Crude humor from Tenacious D? I was led to believe this was a family show!

FiniteBanjo ,

I’m so glad I watched that video clip that was fucking legendary. HAPPY BIRTHDAY KYLE.

sudo ,

Jacks a sellout. Kyle keeps it real.

Hobbes ,

I like jack black, but seriously fuck him for this and for not taking a stand against fascism.

extremeboredom ,

What do you want him to do, exactly?

DarkNightoftheSoul ,
@DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz avatar

Given the plain meaning of the words they said, it sounds like they want jack black to take a stand against fascism.

edit: also maybe to fuck him, that seems like a valid interpretation.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Not throw his partner under the bus? Go out there and be the Tenacious D we know and make rock history. Instead he cowers behind a PR statement.

mombutt_long_and_low ,

“First Amendment rights for me, but not for thee.”

CableMonster ,

I thought we were going with “freedom of speech not freedom from consequences”?

girlfreddy OP ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

This was in Australia, who don’t have a First Amendment.

Raiderkev ,

Oh I’m sorry, I thought this was America!

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

This joke turned my whole day around

EdgeOfDistraction ,

We don’t have free speech in our constitution, but we have protection of free speech in common law, unless it’s explicitly banned by legislation, like some hate speech is.

EatATaco ,

I would think asking for someone to be shot is kind of hate speech. Even in the US where there is explicitly free speech, that could get you arrested if it was believed it incited someone to actually do it. Like Trump did not attack the capitol that day, but he certainly should be held accountable for inciting it with his speech.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Big difference between an offhand comment at a comedy concert and having a sitting president invite an assemblage of men for the purpose of “taking back the country,” especially when Trump and his cronies were part of a conspiracy to overthrow the government known as the 1776 plan..

Making an offhand remark at a comedy show without any imminent means or opportunity to act on the threat doesn’t create an illegal conspiracy. It’s not even a threat, as it totally lacks imminence. On January 6, Trump threatened the capital, the vice president, the Congress, the supreme Court, and the state department, while he stood before an angry mob, hundreds of steps away from these targets.

The only reason that coup attempt failed is because Trump was unable to convince a secret service and capital police to remove their metal detectors from the mall. Now they have project 2025, which aims to purge the government from anyone such as a secret service or Capitol Police Commander who puts the interests of America before the interests of one orange person.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Hate speech needs to target a group of people’s.

Hating Trump is fine, he’s not a group of people in need of protection, he’s an individual and being judged for his actions.

Etterra ,

I may not care about their music, but I support them. DJT and all of his frothingly mad followers are the whole reason that the violence and anger have wildly increased out of control in the first place. As far as I’m concerned, this is just them reaping what they’ve sown.

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