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JD Vance opposes military aid, NATO membership for Ukraine. He's now Trump's VP pick

Vance is one of Trump’s most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.

. . .

Vance has said that it would be “completely irresponsible” for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.

“Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you’re gonna have a peace deal, because that’s the only way out of the conflict,” Vance said in February.

MBFC
Archive

echo ,

Yes, that’s kind of a pre-requisite to being on Putin’s payroll…

sudo ,

He’s clearly on Peter Theil’s payroll. Theil personally bankrolled Vance’s senate campaign and was the only one Theil funded that was successful.

If you keep making up conspiracy theories that every Republican takes orders from Putin, you’re going to miss their actual agenda. Shit like Project2025 isn’t Putin’s agenda. Thats a Koch project. Theil’s got his own techno libertarian eugenicist project that Vance is an acolyte of.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

"Non interventionist

“Fully supports israel”

Meme candidates gonna meme

DoucheBagMcSwag ,

HERE COME THE FUCKING TANKIES

anticolonialist ,

Without tankies this place wouldnt exist, so yea we are gonna be here

el_bhm ,

Without fascism you would not exist either.

todd_bonzalez ,

It must be hard for the Tankies that developed Lemmy that most users dislike their communities.

It’s a shame that a regressive and thoughtless fringe ideology is attached to the project.

But make no mistake, Tankies didn’t invent federated social media or ActivityPub, they wrote a single piece of software. If it wasn’t Lemmy, it would be Kbin or some other project.

If the Tankies keep it up, they might find their software doesn’t get much funding or community attention, so there’s no reason to convince yourself that this place will continue to exist as a Lemmy-centric network.

rekorse ,

Lol this passive aggressive nonsense is the most american thing in this thread. If you people dont stop having your own opinion, us white folk might just stop funding your little projects! How big and important you are, we definitely wouldnt want to offend you.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I’m not going to be passive aggressive about it, there’s a simple reality at play here.

Lemmy is FOSS, so the moment that these tankies try to give themselves some backdoor or whatever to gain undue influence over the system, it will be discovered, forked and everyone will switch and they will be left out in the cold with nothing.

Maybe that’ll happen, maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll get sick of only running pariah instances and take their ball and go home, except we can make a copy of their ball and keep going.

That’s why I’m happy to use the system, it’s an open ecosystem and no individual developer has the power to torpedo it, even if they are the founders. Their authoritarian tendencies can’t do that much damage in the long run.

rekorse ,

I was more talking about how you made it sound like the founders of lemmy are upset with the user base of it as a whole, and then said they are fake founders anyways because the real work was done before them by others, and then said if they keep it up (never said what they were doing to begin with) SOME PEOPLE wink**wink will stop supporting them financially.

Its just dripping with self importance and arrogance. Its an extremely american thing to assume that your viewpoint is the only valid and logical one.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

You have me confused with someone else.

How very like a tankie to be unable to follow the basic and obvious facts of a situation. That’s necessary to become a tankie.

rekorse ,

Yeah I assumed the person defending the OP was the OP, my bad. What’s your excuse for being an asshat? Internet tough guy? You sound so big and in charge when you talk like that you know. Do you talk to strangers like that in person too? Can you share your other qualities so I can copy them? You are obviously an amazing person so please help me.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I’m not seeing anywhere you’re explaining that I’m wrong about anything here, so there’s nothing to respond to.

Unless… oh no. I’m being insulted. Better defend myself in the eyes of this internet rando.

rekorse ,

Call it even I suppose.

Objection ,

Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don’t want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Okay that’s cool, what about Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea, out there starting shit with everyone?

Prior_Industry ,

If you just give them what they want, they go away. Simples 🤦

militaryintelligence ,

Appeasement. 60% of the time it works every time.

Prandom_returns ,

…which is basically enabling imperialism.

Objection ,

It’s wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, “Yeah, I trust them to have the people’s best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict.”

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/07985775-e7d5-4f61-8fc6-1ec5f5680caf.jpeg

Prandom_returns ,

Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn’t.

I know, you americans are really good at “doing your own research”.

Objection ,

Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.

Also we’re talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.

Prandom_returns ,

I’m not talking about JD Vance. I’m talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies “we want peace and deescalation” when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.

But again, you’re a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.

Objection ,

Can’t think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn’t claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said “Either we fight them over there or we’ll have to fight them here,” and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I’m not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn’t go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they’d keep expanding all over and eventually we’d be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I’m just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.

I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.

Prandom_returns ,

I always thought that “we want peace” and “stop the war” people were always the biggest morons alive. At least the people who support russian terrorism own up to it. They are intentionally evil.

After watching so many events unfold, Ukraine getting annexed, women and children raped, children separated from their parents and deported, Bucha massacred, schools and hospitals bombed, for no reason other than imperialsm, you dare to ‘both sides bad’ this.

From the bottom of my heart, fuck you.

So, now when Ukraine is annexed, etc., you’re advocating for “stopping war”. Which, unexpectedly, completely aligns with the wishes of terrorists. Oh, how convenient!

Objection , (edited )

I’m not the one who wants all that to continue. How many more lives must be senselessly thrown into a meat grinder just to move a line on a map?

If you care so much about it, why don’t you go volunteer yourself? Ah, but you don’t want that, what you want is for people to drive around, grabbing people off the street, and forcing them to fight your battles against their will. Because you don’t actually care one bit about the people’s wellbeing, you want to use them in pawns of the Great Game, which you seem to mistakenly believe benefits anyone outside of the 1%.

Anyway you’re not going to have any luck with that terrorist line. That’s literally the exact thing that they said about Iraq and Afghanistan, “You’re either with us or with the terrorists,” I’ve heard that shit my whole life. I wasn’t with them then and history has validated that completely. We’ll see how many people have to die this time before the liberals finally realize that war is bad, yes, even this time.

Prandom_returns , (edited )

You’re literally blaming the victim for war it did not started.

Somehow, in your head, defending what’s rightfully yours is senseless killing.

What you don’t, “surpsiringly”, seem to want is for russian terrorists to pack their shit and go to back to their shithole. Nah, “that’s impossible”.

In your dumb head surrendering to the imperialist bottomfeeder authoritarian is the only way towards peace. Which will last as long as the moron decides he wants more land and more suffering.

Again, the “peace” people are like the most brainless, who can’t seem to think one little step ahead. But of course, this “peace” is very convenient to the usurper which has not occupied the lands, and don’t really want to struggle to keep them.

Tankies continue to live up to their absolutely boneheaded image.

The war can end any second, if russia stops attacking and terrorising Ukraine and leaves it’s rightful lands according to international law. Go be a keyboard activist about that.

Objection , (edited )

I could not give less of a shit about Ukraine’s “rightful lands.” No, it’s not worth ordinary people dying to preserve the land of a reactionary state.

It’s so ridiculously easy to fool you into supporting wars. Literally the exact same playbook every single time and you’ll fall for it every single time. “We have to stop them here or they’ll keep coming,” heard it all before. Where are all the 9/11s, now that we lost in Afghanistan? It was bullshit then and it’s bullshit now. Some of us are able to learn from history. It’s unfortunate that others refuse to learn and keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

It’s very funny that you call me a keyboard warrior, I still haven’t heard your excuse for why you believe in drafting others against their will to fight for a cause you believe in, while you cower at home. Almost as if you don’t actually care about the well-being of Ukrainians at all 🤔

Prandom_returns ,

Lol, there it is. Not a single word to condemn russia and its wankers. Get the fuck out of my sight.

Objection ,

The executives of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin thank you for spit-shining their boots.

Prandom_returns ,

Lmao shut it, putin’s butt-plug

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Another Russian stoogie.

Akuden ,

Not everyone who disagrees with war or your position on it is deep throating Putin.

lennivelkant ,

But someone that blatantly argues for Russia’s benefit probably has some ulterior motives. Doesn’t have to be deep throating Putin, money will probably do.

Krauerking ,

I mean it sounds like he wants chea p Russian labor and goods to compete with Chinese versions of the same.

He’s a Republican. He just wants to personally get rich and doesn’t consider or care what happens to other people on the way to it. Sacrificing half a country that isn’t his so that an oligarchy can turn around and sell back the oil, gas and coal of the land and potentially farm goods at a cheaper slave labor produced price sounds like shrewd business practice to him probably and figures it would get him on the good side of Putin a man with powerful connections.

He misses the mark that China and Russia are working together and you can’t really separate that to get one to hurt more than the other. But that’s getting to much in the weeds of his plans.

I know it’s hard but people generally aren’t some evil spy or some terrible monster aiming to cause destruction. A lot are just people. Self centered and uncaring of the pain they cause and sure they didn’t do anything wrong cause it was supposed to work out for them. People don’t need to get paid first to be awful.

Akuden ,

I’m not Republican.

Krauerking ,

Everyone uses third person pronouns to refer to Vance and the suddenly you can’t figure it out when faced with a counter argument?

Really? Are you for real?

militaryintelligence ,

They have Putin’s cock firmly up their ass but they tell themselves it’s just a turd.

Prandom_returns ,

Some of them just hate Ukranians for no reason?

Akuden ,

Not wanting to fund a war doesn’t mean they hate Ukraine or it’s citizens.

Prandom_returns ,

Okay, let me walk you through this.

You see a kid down on the floor being kicked by a bully.

Your ‘solution’ is to not intervene, because you’re ‘against violence’ ?

Fucking logic.

Akuden ,

Right!

Except the kid is across the world, and we don’t know them very well. Last we heard, they were one of the worst children in the world. Instead of asking the neighbors to pool money to build a boat to go save this kid, you go to all your neighbors and steal that money.

Fuckin’ a logic.

Prandom_returns ,

Oh, so you do hate the kid.

That clears it up, thanks.

Akuden ,

You’re welcome, glad you could put more words in my mouth.

Prandom_returns ,

I’m surprised there’s any space left in that mouth of yours.

SSJMarx ,

say something obviously true

85% downvotes

oh yeah, it’s .world time

ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

This presupposes he believes in anything. I haven’t read it because everyone said it was garbage but I’m pretty sure he wrote his memoir about “Appalachia” when he grew up near Dayton, OH.

HawlSera ,

He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

HawlSera ,

He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a pretty good description.

Spedwell ,

I haven’t read it either. There is however a If Books Could Kill episode about it that is very worth listening to.

vxx ,

I find it weird that his teacher pushed him to write his memoires in college. Who writes his memoires this early and why would a teacher push him to?

SwingingTheLamp ,

I read it. It was not garbage, it contains useful insights. I recommend that people read it to understand politics. BUT, NOTE, CAVEAT: Approach it with your critical thinking cap on. The author is an unreliable narrator, which is unorthodox in a work of non-fiction.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

“Unreliable narrator […] in a work of non-fiction” is a fascinating way to say, “liar”.

andxz ,

I’ve been on the outside observing this escalating shit show for 8 years now and I think I’ve finally reached the point where I don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.

I mean, I know there’s a lot of history behind it etc., but just the past months? I don’t even…

I hope shit gets better for ya’ll, I sincerely do.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.

It’s just fascism, volks.

ChillPenguin ,

Don’t worry. It won’t. As an American, I too have reached that point as well.

andxz ,

Still rooting for all the millions of you that I know are awesome people, but …yeah.

Pretzilla ,

Putin is behind all of it

andxz ,

I’m Finnish, so if there’s one thing I’m aware of it is Putin and his various machinations.

Randomgal ,

He’s not. He didn’t put a gun to the head of the judges que made the president immune to prosecution. He didn’t punt a gun to the politicians denying climate change. He didn’t call on Trump’s followers to storm the US capitol. All of that was the US and it’s people.

Putin was probably just cheerleading his puppets as it all happened. But make no mistake, seeds only grow in fertile soil.

assassin_aragorn ,

Don’t worry about it, a lot of us in the US feel the same. I’m just tired, boss.

gardylou ,

Putins favorite, JD Vance.

Blackmist ,

What’s the lead time on T-shirt printing these days?

Should I get the “Hang JD Vance” shirts printed now so I’ve got them ready to sell, or wait until Trump inevitably turns on him?

elucubra ,

3 to 10 days. Quantity? Colors? Cotton weight ?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Vance is going to push Trump down a flight of stairs his first five minutes in office. He’s going to invoke the 25th amendment so fast it’ll make your head spin.

The guy has absolutely no interest in being VP and his buddies in Silicon Valley are already chomping at the bit for a Techbro Coup. He’s not going to wait 3 hours much less 3 days.

vaultdweller013 ,

The concept of a Techbro coup is so fucking absurd to me. Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses. Mostly cause Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power, add on to the fact that nobody fucking likes them and well theres a good chance theyd be mulched.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses.

Plenty of the coups in Latin America and the Middle East during the 50s and 60s were sponsored by these bean-counters and their billionaire buddies working out of various right-wing think tanks. The Chicago School of Business produced legions of these fuckers and flew them out from Mexico City to Santiago to Brasília. The Saudi Crown Prince MBS has absolutely inundated himself with these freaks in his quest to build the world’s most technologically advanced shopping mall. New Zealand is currently drowning in Techbro fascism, after their local media was hijacked by the far right and the residents talked into electing a white nationalist government.

Hell, states like California and Texas and Florida are already thick with these ghouls. That’s a big reason why our energy prices are skyrocketing in these states. Techbros build these enormous power-hog data centers and jack up the price of electricity for everyone else.

Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power

They have a great deal of institutional power through contracts with federal and state governments. They’re embedded deep in the post-War on Terror panopticon and own huge stakes in private media, so they get to dictate a lot of what we see and hear while distorting public outcries and SWATing political dissidents.

Techbros aren’t the brightest, but cops are way dumber and more easy to manipulate. And as our domestic budget increasingly becomes “Oops! All Cops!” that means obedience to the Techbro Establishment is how you make money and keep your job, especially as law enforcement.

That’s huge leverage in a system that already favors extremist ultra-nationalist white supremacy.

vaultdweller013 ,

Dont take my amusement as dismissal, its foolish to underestimate ones enemy. Everything you said is decently true, hell I should know my great grandfather helped run the proto Techbros out of the region back in the 70s. No the weakness of the fascistic Techbro is that they are inherently institutional, anything that works outside of it or doesnt follow procedures is inherently at an advantage against them. Do you really think Musk or Thiel consider that someone may just blow them up with a car bomb or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge?

Their power is drawn from the institutions making them inherently a secondary power behind the actual fascist leadership. They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together. The fascist respects strength, but the Techbros have none. They hide behind laws, money, and influence.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together.

That’s just fascism generally speaking. You either liberalize or you fail. A paranoid personality cult of an administration can’t last long without people Operation Valkyrie-ing each other, as evidence by Trump’s ear going missing last weekend.

But in the meantime, you get to restructure the liberal order so that your people are in charge when the dust settles.

vaultdweller013 ,

The point I am trying to make is that to even get to the point where they can set shit up for the future they first must get past the first hurdle of consolidation. Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example. They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example.

That’s why they introduce guys like Vance, though. He’s a great front-man for the operation because liberals continue to treat him as just another moderate midwestern politician. And he’s proven his star power, with his movie and book deal.

They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

I guess we’ll see…

vaultdweller013 ,

Yeah I feel like we agree and its just down to specifics and minutia at this point. Good discussion though dude.

sudo ,

I think you’re taking “coup” here too literally. Its implied that it’ll be a political coup, not an actual violent one.

PsychedSy ,

Picture of him.

DON’T MISS

UncleGrandPa ,

Its very easy to see that Putin is running the GOP.

At this point it looks like they are competing on who in the GOP can suck up to the russians the most

anticolonialist ,

NATO should have been dissolved with the Warsaw Pact. Its nothing more that the European arm of US imperialism

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

Go away

anticolonialist ,

I’m not going anywhere. I will call out US imperialism and colonialism every chance that I get and I will stand against anybody defending that imperialism.

JimSamtanko ,

Though your misinformation campaign is off to a VERY good start, I’m afraid that it bodes badly for anyone taking you seriously enough to consider anything you say as resembling a point, let alone a good one.

My favorite was when you tried to say that Pelosi and Schiff demanded that Biden step down, and when I proved you wrong with direct quotes-

You ran away.

anticolonialist ,

I didnt think I ever said anything about Schiff or Pelosi, and after going over my history I was right. If you have not caught on I could not care less what someone else thinks of me.

JimSamtanko ,

Ahhhh… right. That wasn’t you. I get you all confused. Same message, same….

Anyway-

It was you though, that admitted you were here to disrupt an election. Haven’t forgotten that part.

And it’s just as stupid.

anticolonialist ,

The disrupting election bullshit is your terminology. I’m simply telling people they don’t have to vote for a fascist. They should feel entitled to vote who they want to see in government. They should not feel trapped into a duopoly that does not represent their interests

JimSamtanko , (edited )

Oh come on now… don’t try and paint over it. What you said was:

I actively encourage anyone to withhold a vote from Trump or Biden

Actively- Encourage.

You are urging people to NOT to vote.

THAT IS DISRUPTING AN ELECTION.

anticolonialist ,

No one should vote for biden. If Biden had repeated everything he’s already done throughout his career, but as a Republican, liberals would hate everything he’s done. And rightfully so. But he’s given a pass because of that D.

JimSamtanko ,

That’s blatantly untrue.

xor ,

Russia invades its neighbour, unprovoked, explicitly to seize their agreed sovereign territory

“Why would America do this?”

anticolonialist ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    xor ,

    I mean, that’s straight up not true lol

    Your claim is that Ukraine - while not at war - was bombing itself? And that would be a legitimate casus belli for Russia to invade them, and then seize that territory for themselves?

    That’s a batshit insane take

    anticolonialist ,

    You know the Internet is free

    xor ,

    Oh silly me, your argument is even worse than I thought!

    So the “bombing the Donbas” you’re talking about is the previous time Russia declared an unprovoked war against them!

    “Russia had to invade, because last time they invaded, the Ukrainians fought back. Those bastards!”

    Edit: as an aside, you somehow still managed to be entirely wrong, despite not even saying anything in your reply directly - the internet isn’t free, it’s extraordinarily expensive to run, and costs the consumer to use their ISP, too!

    anticolonialist ,

    Your claim was Ukraine wouldn’t be bombing Ukraine, and you were wrong, they had been.

    xor ,

    That doesn’t exactly count when it’s occupied territory lmao

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    So tired of your repeated misinfornation and outright propaganda. You’re done here.

    crisisgroup.org/…/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual…

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

    Good thing it wasn’t as Putin has shown Russia is still a threat to innocent nations who aren’t protected by NATO membership.

    anticolonialist ,

    NATO has already told Ukraine they will not get NATO membership because they are too corrupt. The exact same rhetoric that every nation on Earth called Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion.

    anticolonialist ,

    downvoting doesnt change the facts

    gisreportsonline.com/…/ukraine-war-corruption-2/

    politico.com/…/biden-admin-ukraine-strategy-corru…

    YourNetworkIsHaunted ,

    Gee, I wonder if there were any major shake-ups in the Ukrainian government circa 2014 that could have explained this change in tune.

    Ukraine wasn’t able to join NATO because of active territorial disputes regarding Russia’s 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2022 invasion and intervening Russian-backed fighting in Donestk and Luhansk were naked imperial land grabs trying to force Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of influence despite their democratic processes repeatedly trying to move towards the EU.

    Or in simpler terms, imperialism is actually still bad when Russia does it and it’s weird that you don’t seem to understand that.

    Objection ,

    democratic processes

    “Democracic processes,” you mean seizing power through force in a coup and then banning major opposition parties.

    YourNetworkIsHaunted ,

    Even Yanukovich had been trying to push for EU membership, AKA the guy who was the target of the so-called coup you’re bitching about. He had to shift gears when Putin’s attitude changed and he could no longer split the two, but the whole “euro” part of Euro Maidan was about the sudden shift away from the EU.

    el_bhm ,

    Cool. Corruption is inheritance from russia and nomenclatura.

    Are we liking them facts?

    anticolonialist ,

    The topic at hand is Ukraine

    SkunkWorkz , (edited )

    So because they are corrupt they have to surrender to Russia and the West isn’t allowed to help them defend themselves? That’s like saying that a person deserves to get shot by the police just because he has a criminal record.

    Also the EU already approved Ukraine’s candidate status for accession and accession negotiations officially opened this year. So if Ukraine does things right they will be a member of the EU in ten years give or take. Guess what article 42.7 in the Treaty of Lisbon is. It’s a mutual defensive clause. So end of the day they wil be protected by the bloc whether they are a NATO member or not.

    BaroqueInMind ,

    I have to disagree with your opinion, but also can’t deny that this makes logical sense in an ideal world.

    But the reality is that we don’t, and people still only respond to threats of violence which include deterrence; case-in-point the current situation in Ukraine.

    In summary: fuck Trump, fuck Putin, and fuck you.

    anticolonialist ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    BaroqueInMind ,

    I truly believe that without U.S. imperialism protecting the global oceanic trade routes from rampant piracy you see is happening near the Red Sea and Arabian Sea that could easily happen anywhere, you wouldn’t be able to post your dogshit rebukes with your phone/PC shipped from China.

    If you disagree, please reply with something intelligent for once in your pathetic life that could change my smooth brain mind.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, civility.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, civility.

    tired_n_bored ,

    Yeah according to that guy we must demilitarize when we have a big crazy neighbor who wants to swallow us all. Great idea /s

    BaroqueInMind ,

    I don’t know why my comment got deleted by that pathetic loser moderator, I essentially said I agreed with them.

    tired_n_bored ,

    Without NATO we’d have said bye bye to Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and maybe Poland

    el_bhm , (edited )

    Remember, if russia does it, it is NOT:

    1. Facist.
    2. Imperialism.
    Womble ,

    The irony of someone with the handle anticolonialist spouting talking points in favour of an imperialist land grab where they are literally creating colonies of Russians along the corridor of Ukrainian land between Russia and Crimea is just beautiful.

    anticolonialist ,

    No one is supporting anything like that. If the US would stay out of everyone else’s business the world would be a much better place

    Womble ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Furbag ,

    Oh look, he shaved his beard for Daddy Trump. Wouldn’t want Dear Leader to disapprove of your facial hair now would we, Jay Dee?

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    He has to continue his twink transition. He’s obviously the bottom in this relationship.

    InternetUser2012 ,

    Can you imagine this clown being president when the rapist with 34 felonies is deemed unfit for office or has a McHeartattack?

    VinnyDaCat ,

    I’m not complaining. Only way I’d be happier with his VP pick is if he took up Rubio and forced him to give up Florida.

    Vance is also a snake and he’ll backstab the orange man at some point most likely.

    PlainSimpleGarak ,

    Vance is a cuck. He was a harsh critic of Trump until he wasn’t.

    I don’t see how Vance gets Trump any extra votes. They appear to attract the same kind of people.

    If they win, it gets Vance out of my state. Which is fine (I voted for Tim Ryan).

    obinice ,
    @obinice@lemmy.world avatar

    Vance is a cuck.

    Politics aside, are we shaming people for their sexual kinks now, if they’re not harming anybody?

    PlainSimpleGarak ,

    Yes.

    I’ll give you whatever answer you want in the hopes you’ll go away.

    HawlSera ,

    Those who want to ban my kinks should not have theirs respected

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    Unless their kink id humiliation, then theyre 100% valid

    HawlSera ,

    Ordinarily yes, but the second you try to ban porn or gay people, your fetishes no longer deserve respect and neither do you.

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    The joke was that people with a humiliation kink would want to be disparaged, so “respecting” them is giving them not what they want

    todd_bonzalez ,

    if they’re not harming anybody?

    Funny that you think people like J.D. Vance aren’t harming people…

    Politics aside

    Fuck off.

    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    Vance is there so Trump can scapegoat him for handing Putin everything he wants, that’s about it.

    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.

    I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].

    Many on the ‘far left’ and ‘far right’ say:

    NATO is a terrorist organization.

    [1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU

    Illecors ,

    What peace deals were those? Must’ve missed them.

    cabron_offsets ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    useful idiot

    Great show; I made communities for the hosts!

    You reminded me to share a video, thanks!

    Useful Idiots is an informative and irreverent politics podcast with journalists @aaronjmate and @kthalps

    Chocrates ,

    The peace deal where Ukraine gives up its territory.

    massive_bereavement ,

    And then Moldova, and then Lithuania, and then Northern Finland, and then I pinky promise peace.

    Chocrates ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    massive_bereavement ,

    And I was agreeing with you bud. My point is that as long as we concede, there will always be further concessions required along the road if we want "peace".

    The guys at the Kremlin are bullies, we should already have learned our lesson.

    Chocrates ,

    Sorry wasn’t intending to be a dick. I don’t even remember what I wrote.
    Hope you are having a good week!

    massive_bereavement ,

    You weren't, I got that it was a misunderstanding and I was just saying "blue on blue".

    Anywho, have a great weekend you too!

    skillissuer ,
    @skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    not even peace deal, that was ceasefire. when all that was given up only then russians wanted to negotiate peace deal

    CableMonster ,

    It was a peace deal where Russia would have withdrawn to Feb 23 2022 positions, hostilities would stop and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO. Boris Johnson flew in and said that NATO would give them money to keep fighting. Fast forward two years later and we have tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians and much more lost territory, and a terrible negotiating position.

    FreeFacts ,

    Remember Chamberlain? He made his allies submit to german concessions because that would maintain peace. Fast forward five years and we had 40+ million more dead Europeans and the continent bombed to rubble.

    CableMonster ,

    Is every war WW2 for you guys? Do you know the non-propaganda reason this war started?

    T00l_shed ,

    Russian expansionism.

    CableMonster ,

    Thats the propaganda version. Why did russia invade Georgia? (Hint: its the same reason they invaded Ukraine)

    T00l_shed ,

    Yeah, that’s what I said, russian expansionism.

    CableMonster ,

    Gotcha, I can explain it to you. Russia believes that NATO expansion toward them is an extential threat to their existence. NATO and the US know this, and know that NATO membership of the countries like Ukraine and Georgia is unacceptable. So when Georgia was going in the direction of NATO, then russia invaded a couple months later. So then when Ukraine was going in the direction of NATO membership, russia invaded. You can disagree with their reasons, but that is their reasons not some bullshit claim that Russia is the next 1930s germany.

    T00l_shed ,

    Hey! These countries want to be grouped together to defend against my expansionism! Better invade them to stop them from grouping together, halting my ambitions to get the band back together! Nato is a defensive agreement after all.

    CableMonster ,

    You can not like their beliefs, but this was was completely avoidable, and the idea that russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia due to expansionism is a lie, and the people telling you this are aware it a lie.

    T00l_shed ,

    Yeah, if russia didn’t want to expand it’s territory, it would have been avoided. However that’s not the case, it’s not a lie. Why would countries join a defensive pact around russia if russia wasn’t eyeballing their territory?

    CableMonster ,

    You are just repeating the propaganda talking points. NATO knew that it was the reddest of red lines, and they did it anyways. You can not like it, but its the known consequence of the action.

    You should be asking; why would NATO take a completely unnecessary action that would cause a war. But I guess if you keep looking at russia, then you wont think about what is happening.

    T00l_shed ,

    You are just repeating the propaganda talking points. russia knew that it was the reddest of red lines, and they did it anyways. You can not like it, but its the known consequence of the action.

    You should be asking; why would russia take a completely unnecessary action that would cause a war. But I guess if you keep looking at NATO, then you wont think about what is happening.

    CableMonster ,

    Uh… this is not the kind of statement you can just switch the names on and it makes sense…

    T00l_shed ,

    It absolutely is. In fact it makes sense when I switched it. You are minimizing the death and destruction that russia, and russia alone is causing to Ukraine. You are blaming nato, a defensive alliance, meant to keep each other safe from russian/warsaw countries aggression. The only country that is to blame for the war is russia. And to suggest otherwise is an insult to the people who are fighting for their right not to be oppressed by putin and his cronies.

    CableMonster ,

    Nope… It doesnt make sense.

    T00l_shed ,

    That’s your problem.

    CableMonster ,

    Im rubber your glue…

    T00l_shed ,

    Whatever helps you sleep at night.

    Womble ,

    These places should be part of our sphere of influence and we dont like them drifting elsewhere is exactly the reason for Hitler taking over Austria, then the Sudetenland, then Danzig. Its very comparable, down the the presense of ethnic Germans/Russians being present in the Sudetenland/Donbas and them needing to be “protected” being offered as an excuse.

    SreudianFlip ,

    One other given reason that people seem to forget is the published position by Putin that Ukraine is a fiction, that Ukranians don’t exist in a culturally distinct way, and that their claimed history and distinctness should be erased and made properly Russian.

    It’s not just imperialism at that point, it’s genocidal.

    kevindqc ,

    “look what you made me do”

    CableMonster ,

    What did the US do when the soviet union was going to put missles in Cuba?

    FreeFacts ,

    Well, Nato did expand toward them, Sweden and Finland, and what did Russia do? Did they immediately start strengthening their defences against these new Nato countries? Nope, on the contrary, the baltic bases are near empty of forces. It is concrete proof that Russia does not see Nato as a real threat, they know fully well that Nato will not be the aggressor. The whole Nato expansion excuse is the propaganda, and you are eating it.

    CableMonster ,

    They probably do feel threatened also by those countries, but not the same as Ukraine and Georgia. And they are doing the most they can do. Where do you think this ends? Nuclear war? Why do you suddenly care about a shitty corrupt country like Ukraine?

    Womble ,

    Please cite an official Russian source putting forward that offer.

    CableMonster ,

    You want me to look it up just so you can say “THATS A TERRIBLE SOURCE!!!”. I am going to pass.

    Womble ,

    So pulled out your arse then, gottcha.

    CableMonster ,

    If world wide news is considered my arse, then sure thing bro.

    Womble , (edited )

    I mean, if it was world wide news surely it would be easy to get a reputable source like AP reporting that Russia officially made that offer?

    CableMonster ,

    Feel free to do you own research!

    Womble ,

    So again, source: Arse

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean it’s not hard to Google “Boris Johnson Ukraine Deal”:

    theguardian.com/…/boris-johnson-ukraine-2022-peac…

    “As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.”

    So, no, it’s not as cut and dried as CableMonster makes it out to be. There was no fixed “deal” ready to go, at best it was a negotiation.

    Womble ,

    As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.

    So no, they hadnt agreed to revert to the feb-22 borders, that was still a matter of contension, and Russia were pushing for Ukrainian disarmament post war (i.e. surrender).

    My dispute wasnt that there were attempts at negotiation, obviously there were; Macron in particular made a big show of pushing for them. But the idea that Russia ever offered status-quo ante-bellum (as they suggested) is ridiculous.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Correct, but I’m also going to lean on the side of Cablemonster either mis-remembering the facts, or mis-understanding the facts, rather than mis-representing the facts.

    The Guardian article I found is presented as a fact check, so the idea that Boris Johnson killed a peace deal is clearly something that’s been floating around in the zeigeist.

    Womble ,

    Fair enough, personaly I find it hard to give the benefit of the doubt to people from that instance when it comes to topics like this.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, I have the benefit of having heard the same thing about Boris Johnson and just not bothering to run it down until now, so it doesn’t surprise me that someone could hear it and uncritically parrot it. :) I mean, that happens online ALL the time!

    HawlSera ,

    The ones where Ukraine agrees to defund its military completely and stop asking for aid and Russia paints a little smiley face on their bombs in order to seem more friendly of course!

    gAlienLifeform ,
    @gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh yeah, the one that goes “cut my land into pieces, for oligarchs’ resorts”

    AuroraZzz ,

    This sounds like something stupid Joe Rogan would say lol

    jimmydoreisalefty ,
    @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you watch Joe Rogan directly or do you just watch people that talk about him and tell you what to think about him?

    AbidanYre ,

    The guy got famous making people eat blended rats. I don’t need to listen to his podcast to know I don’t give a shit what he has to say.

    massive_bereavement ,

    A hearty diet on bended rats made me who I am today, so I do not recommend it.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    But what if I told you he sold brain supplements to make his listeners smart?

    SeaJ ,

    If you are anti-wat, you hoyos be against Russia starting them in the first place or at the very least support making it not worth it in the future. Forcing Ukraine to give up territory is neither of those.

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    Dear god you are tiresome

    HawlSera ,

    You do know “You agree to stop protecting yourself and I’ll consider potentially maybe not bombing your orphanages and hospitals nearly as often, possibly.” is not a Respectable Peace Deal

    HC4L ,

    As a European I’m so gratefull people didn’t “go for talks” on that day they stormed the beaches… sometimes you have to actually fight for your ideals and not water them down every time they are opposed…

    Lucidlethargy ,

    This is Trump’s exact stance as well. He’s been VERY clear about this, but idiots in the conservative camp seem to deliberately ignore it.

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