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Sam_Bass ,

I believe hes already said he would pull all US aid out and let russia have them

Moonrise2473 ,

Like the far right in my country before the elections “We have the solution to fix the economy, vote for us” - without of course saying what they’re going to do.

Unfortunately, majority of people believed them

Populism works, people like to vote for someone that says what they want to listen even if it’s obvious that they’re not going to do that

jj4211 ,

Generally their playbook is open, it just doesn’t work. Their strategy is to let rich people do whatever they want and hoard as much wealth as they can, and that prosperity obviously will trickle down to everyone.

However when taxes are relatively higher on the rich and regulations do things like punish them for poisoning a water source, they spend their resources gaslighting the populace into thinking economy is just terrible and if your personal experience does not bear that out, well your just lucky and you’ll be out on the streets in a few months unless you vote right.

xc2215x ,

Trump doesn’t have one.

NoSuchAgency ,

Why, so Biden can do it and take the credit?

pikmeir ,

I, too, love when I get to prevent an entire country from invasion by an evil force, but only when I get to take credit for it. Someone else stealing my idea for peace is just as bad as someone else stealing a joke I said first, if not worse.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You’re talking to someone who agreed with SCOTUS’ decision allowing Trump to commit crimes, just so you know where they’re coming from.

jj4211 ,

Funny thing is that’s how Trump thinks, but not ironically.

nmhforlife ,

Iran Contra anyone?

BrokenGlepnir ,

We had this conversation in 2016 about beating isis in 30 days. Turned out he lied about the plan. Besides if biden had to follow trumps plan that would mean that it was trumps plan right? It would be a better argument for trump to get into office. It would mean that biden has to do what trump says to get things done.

The truth is, Trump is lying about having a plan like in 2016. I didn’t fall for it then. I won’t fall for it now. If you’re falling for it again, it’s pathetic.

Nasan ,

It’s really telling that they care more about clout than actually doing the things that might make the world a little less shitty. Shameless fraudsters can’t be bothered to do anything useful unless there’s a material reward in it for them.

NoSuchAgency ,

Trump did what he said he was going to do, Biden can’t even remember what he said he was going to do. Anyone who thinks Biden should be running things in the US is just living in denial at this point

BrokenGlepnir ,

Weird. He said isis wouldn’t exist 30 days into his presidency almost 8 years ago. Isis still exist. Anyone who says Trump did what he said he was going to do is delusional.

NoSuchAgency ,

Today’s Isis is not the same Isis as before

CableMonster ,

This is really not that hard, its to negotiate peace with the main part being that Ukraine will never join nato. Its almost like we could have totally avoided hundreds of thousands of dead people if our foreign policy didnt suck so bad.

spongebue ,

Putin should have no reason to give a rat’s ass if any country is in NATO, unless he plans on invading it.

CableMonster ,

They correctly feel that nato is an anti soviet/russian union. Why should they not be concerned about it getting on their border?

spongebue ,

What is NATO doing to interfere with Russia’s domestic operations and sovereignty? Ukraine is not Russia, so Russia should have no say in the matter just because they’re next to each other.

Same thing would apply if Ukraine were to invade Russia. Ukraine would have no business doing so.

CableMonster ,

Putting arms near their border… This has been a known problem since the cuban missle crisis.

spongebue ,

And what history does NATO have of using their arms for offensive purposes, rather than defense?

CableMonster ,

A really big history… Take a peak at what countries are in nato and realize they have a long history of being directly in conflict with Russia/Soviet Union.

spongebue ,

You mean like being a part of the USSR and wanting nothing to do with them?

CableMonster ,

Or directly fighting them and having a 40 year long cold war. Maybe most of those countries have been in direct war with russia in recent memory.

spongebue ,

Or maybe Ukraine isn’t the aggressor here and Putin is proving why Ukraine wants to be in NATO

CableMonster ,

Ukraine is not the aggressor, I never said it was. What I will say is that this was was 100% preventable with the promise that Ukraine would not join nato. It was a known red line, and it was crossed. “BUT UKRAINE CAN DO WHAT IT WANTS!!!” Great, and NATO can directly say we dont want a conflict and we dont want Ukraine to be a part because we know it is a line that will likely trigger a war.

spongebue ,

I’m also curious how annexing a country and extending your borders to countries already in NATO solves that problem?

MentallyExhausted ,

Russia doesn’t get to dictate what sovereign nations do. They can fuck off back to their own country, that would put an immediate stop to the war.

CableMonster ,

Thats true, but what if we had listened to them and prevented hundreds of thousands of dead people? Why would that have been bad?

MentallyExhausted ,

What if they had listened to us and not fucking invaded a sovereign nation? Why would that have been bad?

CableMonster ,

So then nato gets to constantly aggress on them and they cant do anything? And then you are shocked that they invaded.

MentallyExhausted ,

“Aggress on them” by existing on their border? This is apologist and appeasement nonsense. Russia’s rights end at their borders.

CableMonster ,

Except that the cuban missle crises shows the US completely disagrees (unless it is convenient at that moment). Do you not see how this war was 100% avoidable if nato did not cross the directly drawn line?

MentallyExhausted ,

Comparing them to our imperialist actions isn’t the brilliant argument that you think it is.

At any rate, NATO has never offered membership to Ukraine — they’ve been explicitly told their corruption issues were a non-starter.

And, of course, Ukraine only started those talks following Russia invading Crimea in 2014. Again, Russia is the clear aggressor here. Get real.

CableMonster ,

You are correct that they didnt offer it yet, but it was on the table, and NATO knew that was the reddest of red lines. You also do even know why russia took over Crimea in the first place.

And yes, how america would react is imporant because it shows how we really feel, not just propaganda about how they can do what they please.

Mirshe ,

Moreover, surrendering whatever Russia sticks a flag in is appeasement nonsense. We’ve already seen this strategy before WWII: *oh, Germany will be OK if we just cede Czechoslovakia. Oh, Germany won’t attack if we cede Alsace-Lorraine…" An aggressive power like Russia, who already tried to annex large portions of another sovereign nation in 2008 (they invaded Georgia and got their shit kicked in because they tried the whole “three day thunder run” strategy), almost certainly will not stop if you just “give them what they want”. Eventually, they’ll want more, and more, and more, and you wind up surrendering slice after slice after slice of your country.

TheBigBrother ,

Yeah the plan it’s fuck Ukraine like it should be…

twistypencil ,

Or they will release the secret tapes of him colluding with Burisma?! I hope so

TheClockStruck13 ,

The entire military complex is milking the US taxpayer dollar from this war, if Trump were to stand in the way of the MIC and their income… given the presidential assassinations observed in recent history I would imagine that he would have multiple crosshairs on his forehead:.: it would take an incredible amount of patriotic duty to ignore that risk and pull funding anyway.

alienanimals ,

“It would be so patriotic to let the Ukrainians get genocided by our long-time enemy bro”

TheClockStruck13 ,

Putin has been on Tucker Carlson and remained fairly clear since the beginning that this war is not about killing Ukraine people (in a genocide as you word it)… in fact the genocide is really happening as a result of US influence, Russia has many legitimate reasons to seek unification of Ukraine with Russian interests, I don’t agree with them, but I disagree that it is a US interest to send US taxpayer money to Ukraine for weapons and arms to prolong this war.

America simply cannot afford to forever siphon money out of the coffers to Ukraine which then purchase weapons and arms which then make the weapons and arms dealers more powerful and wealthy… it’s a wholesale scam, just as we saw in the Middle East… Orwell predicted this, long drawn out pointless wars that suddenly stop when a new war is created. Today we’re told Russia bad guy, tomorrow it might be palestines Hamas, in the future we may see a forever war with China…

It doesn’t really matter at this point. America just like other allied nations should stay out of other people’s wars. Military tax money should be on a need to have basis only

alienanimals ,

During the course of the entire war, the US has spent $175 billion helping Ukraine. This might sound like a lot until you realize that in just a single year, the US’ federal budget is $6.5 trillion. So even if we paid for everything all at once, there’s still $6.32 trillion left this year.

Not to mention most of the money goes back into the American economy. We are spending money on weapons that are largely sitting in warehouses that we would otherwise need to be replaced. Weapons don’t last forever. So for pennies on the dollar we are saving Ukrainian cities from being “liberated” by our cold war enemy that never stopped being our cold war enemy. Sounds like a great investment to me.

TheClockStruck13 ,

Yea the idea of “oh we get the money back” or “we have weapons lying around” isn’t selling it to me.

Also, Russia has nukes… we shouldn’t be tempting WW3. The whole thing is eff’d

ToucheGoodSir ,

Gott3m (Karim)

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