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floofloof ,

It’s only a mistaken understanding if it was accidental. For a long time all the signs are that the focus was deliberately taken off Saudi Arabia despite the known complicity of its officials, and Iraq was deliberately targeted despite the US knowing it had nothing to do with 9-11. Lies were deliberately spread to manufacture the consent of the American (and British) people for what its advocates knew to be an unjustified war.

mycathas9lives ,

Saudi got away with killing Americans on American soil. End of that story. They did it, we all know they did it, and no one will do anything about it. That’s just how it works. That’s how all of this works.

mightyfoolish ,

A blue-ribbon commission concluded that Osama bin Laden had pioneered a new kind of terrorist group—combining superior technological know-how, extensive resources, and a worldwide network so well coordinated that it could carry out operations of unprecedented magnitude

Caves in Afghanistan…

Honestly, the conspiracy theories for 9/11 were a thousand times more believable than this “expansive terrorist network” that somehow lacked influence outside of perhaps the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Seeing this sponsored by a US ally makes a lot of sense to me.

madcaesar ,

Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and North Korea are the Mount Rushmore of asshole governments.

machineLearner ,

where does america fall here? Or do they have their own mountain?

anavrinman ,

I’m definitely furrowing my eyebrows at you. You’re not wrong, and I’m mad about that.

werefreeatlast ,

So did they want to raise the price and we said no so then they asked us to start a fake war against one of their competitors? Is that what actually happened?

joel1974 ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Burn_The_Right ,

    Are you referring to the $2 billion U.S. dollars that Saudi Arabia gave to Jared Kushner as an “investment” in his consulting company that has never made a profit for anyone before? The $2 billion Saudi Arabia apparently gave Jared Kushner as a gift that may be related to the extremely valuable government secrets illegally stolen by his father-in-law Donald Trump? That $2 billion?

    jaybone ,

    You mean the only people that were allowed to fly when all other air traffic was shut down?

    yournamehere ,

    pikachu face

    PanoptiDon ,

    the costly policies that the United States has pursued for the past quarter century have been rooted in a false premise.

    No shit

    extremeboredom ,

    Don’t you love how Saudi Arabia, the country who was very obviously behind 9/11, hasn’t suffered a single negative consequence as a result of their actions? They literally got away with 9/11. And then the US invaded some unrelated countries. Mind blowing.

    Beetlejuice001 ,

    When you don’t normalize it, it really is mind blowing. Bush should be in Prison

    ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

    Bush II even sent special flights around the US (during the no-fly period) to gather up Saudi citizens and transport them safely home. Imagine Roosevelt doing this for Japanese citizens on December 8th 1941.

    CodexArcanum , (edited )

    I, like most of the millenial lemmings it seems, am not shocked about this. I remember what Dubya said as president, the daily evils. I would have never thought it could get worse and then we got Trump, and I think it all does echoes out from 9/11. If there are future historians, 9/11 is going to be the pivot that this entire century stumbles over, probably leading directly to WW3 any day now.

    But when I see articles like this, (in the Atlantic ofc, always this one or the NYT) my nostrils fill up with the smell of consent being manufactured. Has the shadow council decided that we shall war with the Saudis now? With Russia and China just flat-out taking land now, has the US decided to extend it’s “protection” more directly over a few strategic areas?

    Beetlejuice001 , (edited )

    Israel is about to be made an example of. This is BiBi airing dirty laundry on his way out.

    BDS ISRAEL -it’s the only way

    AngryCommieKender ,

    Isn’t BDS a Korean pop band? I don’t think that’s enough of a punishment for genocide…

    rigatti ,
    @rigatti@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s BTS.

    AngryCommieKender ,

    Whoops. So what’s BDS?

    mightyfoolish ,

    Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) is a Palestinian-led movement for freedom, justice and equality. BDS upholds the simple principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity.

    bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

    AngryCommieKender ,

    Thanks. That sounds appropriate.

    Maalus ,

    I always laugh when americans make everything about themselves. Pivot point? Main cause of WW3? Entire century stumbles over?

    Give me a break dude. It was a terror attack that had more victims than usual. It’s about as relevant to today as the Great Depression.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    It was only the thing that led to 3 decades of war that included most of the western world and furthered instability of the world.

    You seem to just want to air ghoulish viewpoints and trashtalk the US. It luckily users can just blackhole you so we don’t have to put up with the insufferable cotrarianism.

    Maalus ,

    And you just want to suck up to the US and to see the world in “good guys versus bad guys” terms. News flash, the US are the bad guys.

    Drusas ,

    The person you're talking to also implied the US are bad guys for initiating three decades of war.

    ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

    9/11 is going to be the pivot that this entire century stumbles over

    November 2000 was a bigger pivot - when Bush and the Republican Supreme Court simply took the Presidency.

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    So we should invade Iran?

    AngryCommieKender ,

    Red tailed hawk screeching intensifies

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    was that evidence called “literally what everyone has known for the last 25 years”?

    postmateDumbass ,

    Obligatory Kitty History

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    see also: global politics in 30 seconds

    arymandias ,

    Remember kids: Iran is the bad Middle East autocracy and Saudi Arabia is the good Middle East autocracy.

    US foreign policy has always been and will always be interest based rather than value based, but they will use moral arguments and threat inflation to drum up support for their misadventures abroad.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Or… one is bad and the other one is way worse.

    Anyway this just means that a straight B-line for no longer being fossil fuel dependent is just more important.

    If we can then combine that by sourcing the oil from countries that do not perform stonings and public executions in stadiums, of call it a win.

    Keep in mind that not 50 years ago, we had an oil crisis that showed how incredibly depended we where, and the EU learned the hard way what energy dependence on Russia meant.

    Solar, Wind and a hydro/Geothermal/nuclear baseload with at least 60 months of stored fission material would be my hope.

    arymandias ,

    100% agree, no longer being oil dependent would make the middle east a saver place (as well as having many other advantages).

    But even the green revolution needs cheap labor, recourses, and rare-earth metals. Countries that do not want to play game and want to nationalize key industries for instance, will be coerced financially or militarily by greater powers (be it the West, China, or Russia).

    So the idea of one country being worse than the other is not really relevant and moreover a known strategy for getting war support. I am happy that I don’t live in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but escalating conflict with either of them will not improve anybody’s life. Look at Syria or Libya.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Which one is the way worse one? Because I can’t really think of a way in which one is way worse than the other. I wouldn’t ever want to live in either place if I were a woman or a queer person.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    I think Iran is worse personally across the board. But I intentionally left that out of my comment as it does not really matter. And for minorities and women both are … unsafe.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Well then you would be wrong.

    Iran never let anything like this happen- en.wikipedia.org/…/2002_Mecca_girls'_school_fire

    So unless you think a country that lets girls burn to death rather than go out in the street uncovered is superior to a country that doesn’t…

    But please do tell me the ways that Iran does things in terms of human rights that significantly differ from the ways that Saudi Arabia does things.

    Badeendje , (edited )
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Nah Squid, as I said I’m not looking for this discussion. I’m definitely not going into an who can out evil who debate as there is so much out there. I’m also not looking to defend any of these countries either. As I said, bad and worse.

    Maalus ,

    You aren’t looking to defend countries yet you call one “bad” and the other “worse”.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Absolutely, and I’m plenty entitled to my opinion.

    In my original post I purposefully did not specify my opinion on which is worse as I fully understand that choosing one as more evil over the other is subjective and depends on your perspective and priorities.

    Squid asked a question, fully expecting my answer to be as it was, in order to perform a gotcha. And I’m not interested in having a slapfight on which country is more evil… as the list of horribleness for each of the countries is so sickeningly long.

    But in the end both countries are hellholes, tthat I would not wish my worst enemy to live in.

    Edit: I’m just sad that this leads to downvotes.

    Maalus ,

    Your original post literally contains “one is bad and the other is way worse”. You started out from a non-neutral position. Then people called you out, and you got defensive saying that you aren’t going to go into “who’s worse”. Which again, you already did. There is no slapfight without your subjective opinion being unbalanced in the first place.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    I left it to the reader to fill in which is which… the definition of neutral. You also think one is worse than the other and fill in the names different than me.

    So calling me out in this case means: looking for a slapfight. And you are too. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll quit this thread now.

    Maalus ,

    Nope, you literally implied “one is bad - Saudis, the other one is worse - Iran”. That’s why you got called out.

    Monument ,

    Or… one is bad and the other one is way worse.

    The thing that always amuses me about this is that Iran was a burgeoning liberal democracy until the CIA and MI6 toppled it in 1953, installing a previously overthrown autocrat (overthrown by said forces of democracy), who ruled until 1979, when he was overthrown by religious hard liners, who really only had mass support because the autocrat was too authoritarian.

    And the reason the U.S. and Britain overthrew their democracy? They nationalized their oil industry to give profits back to their people, which entailed taking over refineries and wells ‘owned’ by British Petroleum.
    The U.S. created their own boogeyman in the area because they wanted to give a corporation near-free access to Iran’s oil. Which in turn lead to the oil crisis and instability in the region.
    The U.S. has really got to stop trying to put out fires while covered in crude oil.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    “Amusing” and yeah the geopolitics of the 50’s and 60’s. The gift that keeps on giving. Especially the interventions done in name of big corporations are wonderful examples of nightmares that just don’t end.

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    iran is pretty regressive (at least the government and the governing bodies) but i do love how the us always says iran is so evil and yet they gave them a whole bunch of weapons in exchange for money that the us could use to fund terrorists in central america in the 80s.

    Treczoks ,

    That was clear to me from a few days after the attacks. Some called me conspiracy nut for that. Good to see that someone finally dug up the truth. You simply cannot trust those Saudi buggers. They smile and hug you, just to drive a knife in your back.

    Always keep in mind that we are unbelievers and heathens for them and that it is absolutely OK for them to betray and deceive us.

    febra ,

    Don’t generalize like that man. That’s straight up fucked up and racist.

    Pretzilla ,

    Maybe more a commentary on cultural norms and stereotypes than race?

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Well the Royal family does some F’ed up stuff. Like having journalist sawed into pieces while still alive.

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