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Despair in Russia as Putin Spirals Out of Control

President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman informed Russians this week that the “special military operation” that Putin launched in Ukraine in February 2022 was set to go on much longer because it is now “a war against the collective West.”

That’s right: a war.

It was remarkable to hear that word from Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov. Journalists were explicitly banned from using it as the invasion began and thousands of Russians have been detained, fined and imprisoned for telling the truth about a war which has now been raging for almost two years.

“Moscow deputy Aleksey Gorinov was sentenced to seven years in prison for saying ‘war,’” Sergey Davidis, head of the Political Prisoners Support group, told The Daily Beast. He said over 20,000 Russians have now been detained and punished for protesting against the war. “That includes 131 Russians who have been sentenced to long prison terms in punishment for peaceful or for more radical anti-war actions,” he said. “I don’t think punishments against the war will now be milder after the Kremlin openly says ‘war.’ Putin will be next to declare it.”

Harbinger01173430 ,

When will we expect a massive export of Russian brides? Uh, asking for a friend…🧐

Flumpkin ,

They are not wrong, Russia is practically at war with the entire west. They are support Ukraine and pour weapons in there like no tomorrow.

If Russia can keep this up and “outlast” and then conquer East-Ukraine they get the valuable part of the country, the breadbasket and industry. And I doubt think the military will stop supporting Putin during this war.

It also weakens democracy Europe because of refugees, massive spending and increase of austerity. This is part of their geopolitcal strategy, the more fascism in Europe, the less unified the EU is.

And for US / NATO it creates an more streamlined front even with just West-Ukraine. Even if individual countries in the EU become more nationalist and leave the EU, they won’t leave NATO with Russia looming. You can also read appreciation for a more militaristic and hawkish attitudes in European countries.

So for the future wars to come with climate change this is an acceptable outcome for those in power. Only the people in Ukraine, Russia and the taxpayers loose.

AA5B ,

the valuable part of the country, the breadbasket and industry

I do wonder how there could be anything of value remaining in areas that have been shelled or mined

Flumpkin ,

Good question. Maybe it’s easier to rebuild industry even if partially destroyed. But I think it’s mostly about natural resources (search).

I think the original plan was to get all of Ukraine into the duty free zone of the EU which would have made trade mostly exclusive with EU instead of exclusive with Russia.

Harbinger01173430 ,

Huh, the feeling when in Stellaris, the united nations of earth have some massive wars before unification. Did the devs somehow see the future? Omg

Flumpkin ,

We know that with food and certain areas becoming precarious due to climate change, wars and genocides are kind of inevitable. Syria was partially caused by an extremely rare drought causing people to move into the cities. You could argue that Ukraine was caused by Russia and the EU trying to lay their hands on the Ukrainian breadbasket. So it’s possible that this is the beginning of the “climate wars”. While that is speculation and it’s certainly not framed that way, it certainly does reinforce the sides for the future. Putin / Russia knows it too and they have a many borders with countries that will be in turmoil due to climate change.

Harbinger01173430 ,

Well at least things will be epic by the start of 2200.

taanegl ,

Good idea! Make Europe militarise again. That has never gone wrong in the history of anything. Europeans are definitely weak and not full of frustration and a want to legitimise their nationality again. Surely European nations won’t make conscription mandatory and rev up their military supply lines again. Surely populism and fascism isn’t on the rise, and even if they are, surely they’ll side with Putin.

Surely. /s

I nominate Putin for the award “dumbest fucker of the 21st century” and Russians for “most performant slaves of 21st century”.

mods_are_assholes ,

Putin isn’t dumb, he’s evil and in mental decline.

Don’t pretend he’s acting this way because he is stupid, he knows he doesn’t have much time and wants to make a legacy of cruelty like his idol Stalin

Claiming he is incompetent just makes him more dangerous.

taanegl ,

TL;DR he is no mental giant, as evident. Hindsight is 20:20.

First of all he, like a buffoons, he thought Ukraine would lay down flat. Problem? The Russian soldiers were sent by a bunch of nationalistic oligarchs. Ukrainian soldiers defend their right to exist as a culture, as a people. Who do you think is more motivated?

Secondly, I think Xi Jinpeng must be quietly facepalming him self. BRICS just got a kick in the balls, and that’s because Putin was cocky and horny for being a centerpiece in the history books. Putin should really just sized up a new leader, groomed and installed them, retired and smiled as a footnote in the history books.

Instead, he wanted to be grand, and put BRICS in the cross hairs like 5-10 years before it would be smart to do so. Legitimising it now and surplanting the need for SWIFT is a tall order, especially since other nations, geo-political powers and non-governmental organizations have started to mobilize against it - policy wise. Uh oh, US NATO imperialism intensifies, to the detriment of BRICS adoption.

So yeah, he might not be “dumb” dumb, but he is no master chess player, that’s for sure. In fact, I’ll wager he pulls off a stupid enough move up trigger war throughout Europe, a no-win scenario where Russia loses land in the end. Some because they have been neglected for decades, and others because of shared history with other nation states. Certain parts of Eurasia is looking like a fat ol’ peach to Xi right about now, I’ll tell you that much.

Remember: nobody really wants war, not even Putin. That’s not productive, really. If the war turns inwards, the whole political house of cards may fall down. That’s why he postured to begin with, and why China doesn’t “take land”, but assimilates like a fine oiled machine. They’re both trying for “reunification” with other states, but one struggles a bit more than the other.

mods_are_assholes ,

I agree with almost nothing you’ve written and it is the most self-indulgent twattle I have seen in weeks.

taanegl ,

Are the mods really the assholes, or are you just projecting?

mods_are_assholes ,

Abusers seek positions of power from which to abuse, mods are positions of power.

You do the math.

prole ,

How can you not see that’s what he wants? He’s been working to destabilize the West for decades now. Everything you just said weakens Europe, even when they inevitably (mostly) side against him. The result is chaos in Europe, and as you said, the rise of nationalism and fascism among individual nations.

A bunch of nationalist countries fighting for their own interests rather than their collective interests, doesn’t make for a great European Union.

taanegl ,

Doesn’t matter what he wants, because he’s an idiot who’s painted himself into a corner.

The destabilisation of the west is underhand, and not by the likes of Putin or China, but of the west them selves.

Fascism and populism is given rise when politicians of a country have fucked up severely over time, that it doesn’t matter what anyone wants after that. When the masses get drastic, the masses get to smashing. Not only are we looking late-stage capitalism in the eyes, but politicians are deeply involved in forming a favourable scapegoat.

“Oh no, it’s the Chinese. Oh no, it’s the Jews. Oh no, it’s the kebabs. Oh no, it’s the darkies.” Take your pick, pick your poison.

Rest assured, as westerners, we are fully capable and pretty much the only ones who can fuck up anything in the western world, and our foot is slammed down on the gas.

Beep beep, mf.

prole ,

I hate when tankies think they sound intelligent.

taanegl ,

That you think I’m a tankie speaks volumes about your intelligence.

prole ,

k

Sp00kyB00k ,

Do you even know what Europe is?

Harbinger01173430 ,

It’s some city or something. I unno

Sp00kyB00k ,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuropeTry it. Even it is not the best resource, it can give you at least a gist about it. It is not a city, it will surprise you.

Wanderer ,

“Every time we hit the bottom harder and fall through it and now we are at war with the entire world, it seems. What else could be worse? Next will be nuclear, nobody doubts. What depresses me most is the helpless situation we have: the majority will still vote for Putin simply because they feel lost without him, despite tiny salaries, awful medical service, men dying on the front, despite the growing feeling of instability.”

Bloody Russians, at least they could not vote for fucking Putin.

DdCno1 ,

I don't think this would change anything about the election results. At most the real numbers, which are a closely guarded state secret, would inform Putin that there is growing discontent.

Wanderer ,

Yes but that must be taken into account when Putin makes decisions.

If he gets 5% of the vote he must be thinking “shit I need to do something different”

MeaanBeaan ,

MORE GULAG!

trolololol ,

Yep like double down on what’s already happening

fidodo ,

I highly doubt they even count the real numbers

LordCirais ,

Voting in a Presidential election there actually does even less than it does in the US. It’s all just a fun show for the people that Putin puts on sometimes.

avater , (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

no you stupid russian cunt you are not at war with the west, you are at war with ukraine and they are making your mighty army look like fucking clowns.

If you would be at war with the west, you would be pretty much done by the end of the week and now for the love of god do us a favor and skip to the chapter where you put a fucking gun to your mouth and pull the trigger.

victorz ,

Honestly how have there not been any successful assassination attempts on this mf yet, seriously. Let’s get on with it, shall we. I’m over Putin already, since even before the war.

debil ,

Unfortunately it won’t prevent another one taking his place. Especially with the 2020’s constitutional referendum that basically lets Russian war criminals get away unpunished. I think the whole country is fucked beyond repair at this point.

victorz ,

Probably. It’s quite uncomfortable having them this close to Europe, as a European.

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

Risky take, but I’m glad the US hasn’t done that. We have a terrible track record. It never seems to help, and this isn’t ultimately a Putin problem so much as a larger tendency of this regime and its economic systems.

I just don’t know if there’s a version of Russia that can coexist with the status quo we’ve been trying to protect. It might be terminal, and god help us if I’m right.

victorz ,

I guess it is inevitable that Russia will ultimately have to be destroyed by external force. Whether it happens sooner or later. One day the full West will be at war with them. Here’s me hoping it will be a couple of lifetimes away. I have young children. 😓

mindlight ,

Remember, this is nothing but a sign that the Russian economy is booming!

There have been so many signs of the Russian economy booming the last 2-3 months it’s hard to keep up…

But rest assured, I’m here to help you remember the wise words of the great and courageous leader Vladimir Putin who is guarding the insides his pala…eh…I mean part of Russia from those pesky Nazis!

PlutoniumAcid ,
@PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world avatar

Russian something goes boom but it’s not their economy… unless that’s also what an implosion sounds like.

DarylDutch ,

In one week from today it will be 2 years into a “3 day special military operation”. At some point even the most delusional people have to face the music. We can only hope that it eats at his psychological health and he soon drops dead.

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

It just goes to show that his “special military operation” has basically failed if it lasted 727 days longer than usual

funkless_eck , (edited )

that’s just how special it is ✨️🫠✨️

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Classic Russian Federation

vanontom ,
@vanontom@lemmy.world avatar

The special op is… just a bit slow, bless its heart.

qooqie ,

This is just western version of propaganda I assume. Most Russians still overwhelmingly support the clown

S410 ,
@S410@kbin.social avatar

Overwhelming "support" is not that surprising, to be honest, when the question is "Do you support Putin or do you want to fall out of a window?"

ChunkMcHorkle , (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

deleted by creator

jaxxed ,

There are genuine Putin supporters. Experts on Russia describe that the pro-putin supporters are at least as large a group as the anti-putin group (similar to the trump situation in the US), but both are dwarfed by the quiet de-politicized middle. Russian politics are heavily aimed at keeping the middle from engaging.

Schorsch , (edited )

AFAIK the attitude of the Russian middle class is like “we don’t care about politics and even if we did, there’s nothing we could do about it anyway, so we’ll just go with the flow and fly under the radar as good as we can.”

This mindset has been formed by the Soviet times and is now becoming more important again.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

How anyone over there still sucks this dude off is beyond me lmao

PoastRotato ,
@PoastRotato@lemmy.world avatar

I would imagine it’s at gunpoint, figuratively or literally.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

What’s to stop someone from leaving? Are they North Korea like that?

thisisbutaname ,

Based in the news I’ve read, the Russian government, and also the ones of many neighboring countries

Beardwin ,

Emigration is really hard, both emotionally and financially, regardless of where you live.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

That’s a really good point I hadn’t considered in passing, moving to a whole new country, and as a Russian? Probably pretty tough

DdCno1 ,

Most end up in Georgia, because it's just across the border, culturally and linguistically close.

RadicalCandour ,

And Georgia has it really bad rn as well. Basically no one is talking about how Russia has Georgia completely under its thumb. It’s really bad in Tbilisi. I wish it got more coverage.

Tremble ,

Usually illegal to work unless you have money to pay to get the permission to work.

lepinkainen ,

They don’t let valuable people live. Also they don’t let people convert roubles to western currency. The current exchange rate for roubles is a complete sham as it’s not a free market

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Pretty sure many people in the world aren’t doing business with Russian currency for obvious reasons.

That only changed recently, it wasn’t always like that. “Free markets” don’t need to be fully free for the same reason that the tolerant need not tolerate the intolerant.

RadicalCandour ,

Open windows I suspect

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Huh?

VaultBoyNewVegas ,

Defenestration joke.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

I can’t believe there’s an actual word for this

DdCno1 , (edited )

It's a long and proud tradition that has existed for as long as there have been windows at higher than ground level. Entire wars were started over this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague

I am however convinced that in Putin's Russia, defenestrations aren't always the actual cause of death. It's a far too convenient method for covering up torture.

deadcream ,

No, but there are many obstacles. Besides usual ones common to migration in general, due to sanctions people who want to emigrate won’t be able to easily access their money left in Russia. Also if they speak up against Putin everything they left in Russia will be confiscated and returning back (for any reason including possible deportation) will be dangerous (Russia is smart enough to not charge dissenters living abroad so that they won’t be able to claim asylum, but when they return they can be arrested. This strategy was used since USSR times). This makes emigration a risky proposition unless you already have a high-paying job lined up for you, and can receive foreign citizenship in a short time.

floofloof ,

You have to have a country to go to. The hard part of emigrating is often immigrating. Countries don’t generally just let people in.

deadcream ,

There are a lot of people there that haven’t experienced oppression personally and genuinely believe that “strong ruler” that “keeps people in line” is what’s needed for their country to be “strong”.

Also one of the key points of Russian propaganda that has been hammered into them for decades is that “democracy is a sham” and that any alternative to Putin’s regime would be just as oppressive and simply less “competent” (and therefore lead to Russia’s ruin).

Putin supporters do not believe that democracy can work and they don’t want democracy, as simple as that.

rammer ,
@rammer@sopuli.xyz avatar

There’s a reason why Russians do not believe democracy can work. It is the fact that the only brief time there was democracy in Russia in the past few hundred years was a time of unmitigated chaos. The transition away from communism was un utter disaster. The west didn’t help either. All the west did was try take a piece of the pie.

Plopp ,

Propaganda, fear and other things.

Gork ,

The ones closest to him in his inner circle are very incentive to be loyal as many of them got rich, and their wealth depends, on Putin’s blessing. Those who don’t, like Prighozhin, get made an example of and have their private planes mysteriously fall from the sky.

mods_are_assholes ,

like Prighozhin

That entire circus tells you all you need to know about how pooty poot keeps his subordinates in line, thanks for reminding everyone about it. It needs to be more public.

nutsack ,

do not underestimate Russian conservatives

mods_are_assholes ,

They’re just like our conservatives but go to jail less for murdering gay and trans people.

edit: Oh and they can legally beat their wives too.

Honestly it makes a lot of sense why modern American regressives idolize such a brutal and backwards culture.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Nice privilege you got here . . . Be a shame if anything were to happen to it, y’know. Like in russia.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

I was aware of my own ignorance on the topic, and maybe my words weren’t clear or concise enough for your liking, but it was very much a comment intended to receive answers, opinions, and viewpoints so that I could educate myself

But your random slap on the wrist was super effective and was a crucial excercise. Good job.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Do you have a few minutes to talk about our lord and savior donald trump?

mods_are_assholes ,

Don’t even fucking say that ironically.

mods_are_assholes ,

Oh its really simple and I’m kind of angry how many people keep making your statement.

Fact: about 1/3 of the world enjoys the suffering of others and wants a visible, high profile enemy to rail against. They are cultist regressives dreaming for a past that never existed, in Russia’s case the fantasy of the old USSR at its peak.

They are angry at being poor and powerless and gladly accept any justification that allows them to hate someone else.

The same motivations behind trumpty dumpty’s cult. Do you honestly think this is a coincidence?

Unfortunately I know nothing I type here will matter to you and the next time a thread exposing putin’s brutality you will just likely post the same statement.

tan00k ,

It’s understandable to be confused by it, I’m not sure why it makes you angry.

Even if you’re familiar with the idea that some portion of the population is hierarchy/authoritarian prone, it makes you ask why. Then the answer just takes you one step deeper - that they like to see others suffer. Why? Because it makes them feel like they have it better than someone else, and that feels good. Well why does that make them feel good? Etc.

When you drill down enough you always get to “that’s just the way it is”, which isn’t satisfying.

mods_are_assholes ,

I don’t think there is any benefit in trying to justify bigotry as there are almost as many reasons as there are bigots.

Did they have bad family lives? Probably, most of us have nowadays, but I know plenty of people that have gone through some harrowing shit and it doesn’t make them want to erase trans people.

I mean, you can go ahead and spend as much mental energy as you want reviewing every possible thing that led them down the path of enjoying the suffering of others, but I don’t see in any way how that is practical in curbing the damage they are doing to the fabric of our society.

People who dream of violence against innocents are monsters and I have no ethical or moral responsibility to consider the cause of the week they claim is behind their antisocial behavior.

Harbinger01173430 ,

We are prone to that because God made humans in a way so we would bow down and obey or something. That’s why you al go back to your roots. Lucifer gave you a way to prevent that or something. I unno, I am no expert with the lore of humanity. I am just an alien watcher. /S

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