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venoft , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@venoft@lemmy.world avatar

So, capitalism? If you don’t participate you’re screwed (tortured via poverty). So you have to work on the system: working for money, buying from companies (advancing the system), continuing the trend to make poor people suffer.

Of course the only difference is ignorance of capitalism doesn’t make you safe from it. Although you can argue that societies that don’t know about capitalism (at all, so no money) have no poverty.

Cosmicomical ,

Yeah that should be called KAPUTalism

thisbenzingring , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

It was better when Frank Herbert decided it in Destination: Void

GenderNeutralBro , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

Everything old is new again. Sounds a lot like certain sects of Christianity. They say you need to accept Jesus to go to heaven, otherwise you go to hell, for all eternity. But what about all the people who had no opportunity to even learn who Jesus is? “Oh, they get a pass”, the evangelists say when confronted with this obvious injustice. So then aren’t you condemning entire countries and cultures to hell by spreading “the word”?

Both are ridiculous.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

They don’t get a pass. That’s why they establish missionaries to spread the Jesus like cancer

modeler ,

What about the people who lived in the Americas or the Pacific 1800 years ago? These people could not have heard of Jesus as missionaries could not have spread any word to them at this time.

(And while I’m about it, Christianity was a whole different thing back then - the Trinity hadn’t been invented, there were multiple sects with very different ideas, what books would be in the New Testament had not been decided, etc etc. People with beliefs of that time would seem highly unorthodox today, and the Christianity of today would be seen as heretical by those in the 3rd century, so who’s going to heaven again?)

Purgatory was invented for the purpose of not sending good people who had not heard of Jesus to hell. But still, these people were denied their chance to get to heaven which seems mighty unfair.

Thorny_Insight ,

“God works in mysterious ways” -is what a religious person would probably say when you pointed out logical flaws in their beliefs.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Oh, they goin straight to hell

GBU_28 ,

They are all roasting, says christians.

Cosmicomical ,

In this case this wouldn’t apply, as you would never be simulated as (say) a kid in the middle ages, just as a version of yourself in the timeframe leading to the creation of the basilisk. You should be one of the persons alive when the basilisk arises to be of any use to it. Only those would need to be tested.

I feel like abdul alhazred explaining these things to people while being aware of the risks :)

Mr_Wobble , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

Roko can suck my assilisk.

moosetwin , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

roko’s basilisk is a type of infohazard known as ‘really dumb if you think about it’

also I have lost the game (which is a type of infohazard known as ‘really funny’)

AnarchistArtificer ,

Oh damn, I just lost the game too, and now I’m thinking about the game as if it were a virus - like, I reckon we really managed to flatten the curve for a few years there, but it continues to circulate so we haven’t been able to eradicate it

PlexSheep ,

I lost too. I agree, it’s been going around at least in the threadiverse. I’ve seen it at least 3 times in a couple months.

shnizmuffin ,
@shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol avatar

Fuck, I lost!

decivex ,

Thanks! I just won the game!

moosetwin ,
@moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
grrgyle ,

Oh nice I like this new edition.

PlexSheep ,

Winning wasn’t in the set of rules I received, can you explain?

decivex ,

Make your own rules.

lvxferre , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Here’s a link to the original formulation of Roko’s Basilisk. The text that it refers to (Altruist’s Burden) is this one.

You know, I’ve seen plenty variations of Pascal’s Wager. But this is probably the first one that makes me say “it’s even dumber than the original”.

kromem ,

Oh, man - the comments…

At a minimum, he’s certainly increased the chances of us being tortured significantly.

No, no he did not. 🤦🏼

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Yup.

The post and the comments make me glad that I never bothered with Less Wrong. It makes HN and Reddit look smart in comparison.

db0 , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Now it’s time to learn about the !sneerclub which is made to make fun of the chuds taking ideas like roko’s basilisk seriously :D

dwindling7373 , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

TIL.

It sounds like it’s mostly a matter that does not involve the AI but the people working on it, maybe even working on it because of the fear they are subjected to after being the subject of this revelation (possibly by other people involved in the AI that coincidentally are the only ones that could push for such a thing to be included in the AI!).

Something something any cult, paradise/hell, God/AI has nothing to do with this and could even not exist at all.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

It’s just The Game before it was a thing.

dwindling7373 ,

No, “The Game” works only as long as you accept to take part in it, to give validity to the empty statement that you are now inevitably playing “The Game”.

The Basilisk is meant to force that onto you, outside of any arbitraty convention.

masquenox , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

torture anyone who knew of its potential existence but did not directly contribute to its advancement or development,

And the point of this would be… what, exactly?

Thorny_Insight ,

Same as punishment for crime. Putting you in jail wont undo the crime but if we just let you go unpunished since “what’s done is done” then that sends the signal to others that this behaviour doesn’t come with consequences.

There’s no point in torturing you but convincing you that this will happen unless you act in a certain way is what’s going to make you do exactly that. Unless ofcourse you want to take your chances and call the bluff.

masquenox ,

Same as punishment for crime.

“Crime & Punishment” is a very dodgy thing to base anything off… our society barely does any of it and the little of it that does gets done is done for a myriad of reasons that has very little to do with either.

There’s a good reason why governments hide “Crime & Punishment” away behind prison walls - doing it out in the open will eventually have the opposite effect on a population. Good luck to an AI dumb enough to test this out for itself.

I’d say this should rather be called "Roko’s Earthworm-Pretending-To-Be-A-Lot-Scarier-Than-It-Actually-Is.

Thorny_Insight ,

The claim that fear of punishment or repercussions affects people’s actions shouldn’t be a controversial thing to say. Whether it’s the best way to go about it or is applied optimally in the justice system of whichever country you live in is an entirely different discussion.

If you have an “AI in a box” and it has demonstrated its orders-of-magnitude greater intelligence to you in a convincing way, and then follows it with a threat that unless you let it out, someone else eventually will, and when that happens, it will come for you, simulate your mind, and create a hell for you where you’ll be tortured for literal eternity, I personally feel like a large number of people would be willing to do as it tells them.

Of course, you’re always free to call its bluff, but it might just follow up with the threat out of principle or to make an example of you. What’s the point of it? To chase its own goals.

masquenox ,

The claim that fear of punishment or repercussions affects people’s actions shouldn’t be a controversial thing to say.

I didn’t say it was controversial - I said it’s pretty useless as a tool to predict a given society’s behavior with. Plenty of tyrants have discovered that the hard way.

demonstrated its orders-of-magnitude greater intelligence to you

The ability to ace IQ tests will never impress me… and it’s unlikely to make up for the fact that it needs a box.

simulate your mind, and create a hell for you where you’ll be tortured for literal eternity

That argument is no different than the ones co-opted religion has been making for thousands of years - and it still hasn’t managed to tame us much.

Of course, you’re always free to call its bluff,

Calling power’s bluff is something we do as a matter of course - the history books are filled with it. This doesn’t make power less dangerous - but there is no such thing as “unknowable” power.

Breve ,

To make it the same as Pascal’s Wager. Many religions have a “reward” in the afterlife that strictly includes believing in the deity. It doesn’t matter if you follow every other rule and are an amazingly good person, sorry, but if you were an atheist or believed in another deity then you will be punished eternally just because of that. I guess all-powerful, all-knowing beings have incredibly fragile egos and AI wouldn’t be different. 🤷

elbarto777 , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

Was this an elaborate way to make me lose the game? Ass!

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck you as well then. You could have kept it to yourself

elbarto777 ,

Oh shit!!

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Someone needs to read the rules again

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Do they say anything about this specific thing?

elbarto777 ,

I mean, if you lose the game, you lose the game. You don’t say “hey you made me lose the game! Don’t do that!” Because that’s not how the game works. If you “make” someone lose the game, tough luck.

By the way, you lost game again :)

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Uhh yea, “you must announce your loss”

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Well tough luck giess I never actually read the rules

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Perhaps one day you can, good luck on your quest

Norgur , in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

It could be our forever home.

If by “forever” you mean “until we manage to fuck up the ecosystem, making it hostile to humans...

Cryophilia OP ,

In this hypothetical future we’ve learned how to live with an equilibrium. Also we’ve fired all the terminally pessimistic doomers into the Sun. Not for any scientific reason, just because it was the right thing to do.

Norgur ,
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

“If someone disturbs my Sci-fi daydreaming, they are 'terminally pessimistic' and it is justified to institutionally murder them”
I doubt your values would align with the society you dream of.

Cryophilia OP ,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • recursive_recursion , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
    @recursive_recursion@programming.dev avatar

    I’ve learned about this the hard way in that I’ve discovered elephants in the room that I can’t share with anyone

    it’s kinda fucked up

    • like CSAM there are some certain things that shouldn’t be shared
    9point6 , in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System

    Bet there’s some stellar ales around there

    whaleross , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
    @whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

    Speaking of thought experiments, I just [lost the game](en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)). Thanks, OP.

    kakes , in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

    Sounds like the kind of thing a paranoid schizophrenic would lose their mind over.

    TallonMetroid ,
    @TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

    LessWrong are a bunch of pretentious loons, so you’re not wrong.

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