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Gormadt ,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Sounds like they’re likely also to find themselves in legal trouble

At least one can hope

Maeve ,

I thought about that; then I thought what that guy makes in a few minutes'interest on his offshore accounts is probably more than all of Brazil, in a year, and since taxes fund the government and a host of other things, idk

db2 ,

People like musk don’t make money, they make credit.

0x0 ,

Trevor Noah said it best.

aesthelete ,

Leveraged buyouts specifically should be outlawed.

EDIT: And billionaires should be taxed on the money they receive as loans.

The “buy borrow die” tax strategy should either be completely outlawed or the government should be able to get portions of those loan payments back as tax money.

imPastaSyndrome ,

That’s not how money works

Quill7513 ,

Or Brazil. That’s the eight largest economy in the world. They headline BRICS for a reason. Sure, China is the true headliner there, but the fact is that Brazil is included in those 5 countries for a reason (multiple actually). There’s absolutely no way for a single individual to eclipse the value of the world’s 8th largest economy. Pick a country with a lower GDP than Hungary and then we’ll talk

Hope ,

The country of Brazil makes something like 20x Musk’s total net worth, but every year.

Maeve ,

Good. May they do what is necessary.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

Plus net worth != actual money.

mercano ,
@mercano@lemmy.world avatar

Usually Gwen Shotwell, SpaceX COO, is good at keeping Elon in check and not screwing up SpaceX business. I wonder what happened this time.

assembly ,

This is the intersection of Xitter and SpaceX and it looks like Xitter takes priority.

harrys_balzac ,

If you can only access Xitter through SpaceX, can we call the combination “SpaceXitter”?

HootinNHollerin ,

His ego is above all else

downpunxx ,

I hope and pray what Brazil is doing now (but don't believe it will) becomes a blueprint in choking off Musks cynical use of Freedom of Speech to attempt to overthrow democracies everywhere in service to fascist power

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

The problem is that this IS the blueprint.

Blocking twitter? That’s fine. People generally hate twitter so whatever.

But starlink? That is a genuinely okay product (so long as it isn’t too sunny where you live…) and actually does serve a niche for people who can’t get better internet. And it rapidly will go from “The government blocked twitter. I guess that is probably good?” to “The government is taking away internet from thousands of people and this is literally worse than china”

Merlin ,

Yeah. It’s really sad that a lot of people on remote areas in the Amazon will be affected by a ban on starlink. They also spent quite a bit of money for Brazil’s standards on the equipment as well.

Still, this shouldn’t be the reason to put anyone above the law, no one should be above a county’s law.

If this actually happens it may really backfire on Elon and all companies he’s involved, at least in Brazil.

As you invested your money in one of his companies products and now because of his massive ego/lack of mental stability you either lost support, functionality or access to parts (for maintenance of hardware) and I doubt any of his companies would pay their users for this inconvenience. This would make using any of the products he’s involved with too risky, better to just use a more “mentally stable” competitor even if the service or product is slightly worse.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

You are assuming people look at this rationally. Rather than “the politicians hate a guy and I suffer”

It is very similar to the logic by which people go out of their way to bend over backwards to support anti-consumer practices if ti is for the game or movie they want to watch.

zkfcfbzr ,

In this case, assuming Brazil made the right call, I’d look at it more as “Starlink is taking away internet from thousands of people” instead of “the government”. Nobody can or should expect any government to allow businesses to operate within their border that blatantly disregards legal orders. If people lose access to the internet the blame is on Starlink’s hubris, not the government’s insistence on the rule of law.

That said, I have not been following this story and am cautious enough about Brazil’s government that I’m not taking any stance here over which side is right or wrong.

rdca , (edited )

Brazilian here, the court couldn’t find anyone in Brazil that represents X to pay the fines and to block the accounts spreading lies about the anti-democratic events of January of last year. Since Elon Musk is one of the major shareholder of both companies they connected the dots and Starlink has representatives in Brazil their account was frozen in order to get the fines owed by Musk’s other company. Later the government found out Starlink was not blocking access to X as any other internet provided was instructed to do so.

Musk is a big supporter of Far-right Brazilians including former president Bolsonaro and his political allies. It was during Bolsonaro’s government that Brazilian army switched to use Starlink.

The free speech agenda that Musk is advertising is not the main issue here but a government that goes against Musks interests and his companies.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Free speech has jack all to do with it.

What matters are people who suddenly can’t watch kitty cat videos… or organize military operations. They don’t care about misinformation campaigns and fines. They care that suddenly The Government has taken something away from them.

xep ,

Logically, now they have to ban Starlink too.

mp3 , (edited )
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

Seems like it’s on the table

reuters.com/…/brazils-supreme-court-chamber-forms…

Tensions between Brazil and Elon Musk’s business empire ratcheted up further as the country’s telecoms regulator threatened to sanction his satellite broadband company Starlink hours after its top court stood behind a controversial decision to ban social network X from the country.

A senior official at telecommunications regulator Anatel said sanctions against Starlink for noncompliance could include the revocation of its license to operate in Brazil.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

the world needs to ban starlink

merde ,

If Starlink follows through on its reported vow to ignore the X ban, it is likely to face similar sanctions itself for ignoring a supreme court order.

That could have a big impact in the Brazilian Amazon, where Starlink antennae have spread rapidly since being made available in September 2022, bringing high-speed internet connection to far-flung regions. By the end of 2023 Starlink antennae were being used in more than 90% of the Amazon’s municipalities, according to BBC Brasil.

theguardian.com/…/brazils-supreme-court-upholds-x…

Glasgow ,

I mean are those people really going to be using Twitter anyway?

ChonkyOwlbear ,

On one hand, fuck Musk. On the other hand, internet from space that can’t be blocked by governments is a net positive in my book.

finley ,

that depends on who controls the space internet

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Secret cabal of space lizard people.

WhatYouNeed ,

Watch out for the Jewish space lasers.

vaultdweller013 ,

Are the Jewish space lasers more dangerous than the Hibernian and Caledonia Rods of god. Im asking incase we need to up our tonnage to match the Jews. I know for a fact we are lagging behind Suomen Helios lance.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

That is the catch. Ideally they wouldn’t automatically cooperate with the dictators on the ground, but that hasn’t been the case.

Shdwdrgn ,

Don’t forget that Musk is also the one who intentionally blocked paid service from Ukraine during a critical moment in the early days of Russia’s current genocide, because Musk sucks up to Putin. Dude needs to answer for his actions.

FilthyShrooms ,

Yep, fuck Musk

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck Musk

Sounds like a French parfum.

yeahiknow3 , (edited )

That’s an arbitrary metric. What about internet across oceans, or across forests? Blocking content is a question of why and what. I mean, shouldn’t we be able to block child exploitation websites? That is to say, of course we can, and it’s very easy. The only question is whether you want that kind of censorship to be up to your service provider or your government.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Governments tend to block things like facts about genocides they have committed and opposing political opinions. I would hope things like child exploitation could be managed at the host level.

yeahiknow3 , (edited )

Do you have any idea how eagerly AT&T and Comcast would block half the internet if they had the tiniest profit motive to do so? I wonder how long left wing websites would remain online if it weren’t illegal for multinational corporations to block them.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

That’s the thing, they is no profit motive to block wide swaths of public viewpoint because that will cost them customers. They will quickly lose business to a competitor who doesn’t do that. (Local monopolies aside, which is an entirely different problem).

yeahiknow3 ,

I wish you were right, but you’re not. Internet providers have monopolies because the cost of laying fiber or launching satellites is so high. That’s precisely what the argument over net neutrality has been about.

Infynis ,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

Can’t calculate the net yet, since we don’t know the gross. He has the capability to cause massive damage with the power he wields. It’s already clear that he’s incapable of providing an unbiased platform. It needs to belong to the people or it can never be trusted

0x0 ,

It needs to belong to the people or it can never be trusted

Damn commies!

Metz ,

The ability to recognize sarcasm doesn’t seem to be particularly developed on Lemmy.

And if fucking hate the /s.

0x0 ,

I get that simple text doesn’t convey as much as images or speech, but, …i find myself having to add the /s (but it’s easier to ignore the downvotes).

Zangoose ,

The ability to recognize sarcasm doesn’t seem to be particularly developed on Lemmy the internet.

FTFY

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

What if payments to Starlink are blocked by Brazilian government?

stupidcasey , (edited )

He is in a unique position, theoretically he can make everything go through the country his servers are in assuming they pay over their own satellite internet, illegal… mmm almost certainly but so is keeping Ex Twitter on in Brazil so he probably doesn’t care about that, and it’s essentially exactly what a VPN does sooo, oh yeah they could also just use a VPN I guess.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Bruh, VPN for what? If Brazil bans payments to Starlink, essentially sanctioning it, how is end user going to circumvent that?

I mean they can jump through hoops to convert currencies etc but most people would just give up and move on.

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

Paying with Bitcoin is less of a hoop to jump through than it used to be.

Summzashi ,

Starlink is free in Brazil right now.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Is it? Didn’t realise Elon was running a charity.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Controlled by governments or controlled by corpos and the super rich? I say there’s hardly an improvement.

Valmond ,

Yeah, cables or radio waves, it’s the same thing in the end.

What we need (IMO) is another layer on top if the classic internet with encryption and hookers.

bizzle ,
@bizzle@lemmy.world avatar

Like i2p or TOR?

Valmond , (edited )

Or Tenfingers (my network protocol for decentralised web pages and data) ofc 😌

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

No, but through the existence of both options, you can get more plurality than by using one individual option.

zbyte64 ,

If we’re talking about corporations I can only assume you mean options in how to get fucked.

OccamsRazer ,

Government can throw you in jail.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

it’s already been blocked in ukraine by musk at the request of putin

servobobo ,

How is a billionaire manchild in charge any better, at least a government is accountable to the people.

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

In theory, but how many governments can actually be held accountable? The power imbalance is often too great for the people to hold anyone accountable. In many countries, the system is rigged.

EatATaco ,

The question was how is it better. Sure there is a question of how much accountability there is with the government…but there is zero with a billionaire.

zbyte64 ,

Replace government with billionaire and your statement is made even more true.

ElCanut ,

Not blockable by any government would be a positive in my book if it didn’t imply bloclable by a single billionaire with huge mood swing. Don’t forget how musk switched off starlink in Crimea at Putin’s request when the Russian realized starlink guided missile were heading towards their ships (Source

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

You can block or disrupt communications with LEO.
But you’d need the blessing of the country’s government to pump out that much interference continuously.

RememberTheApollo_ , (edited )

Oh? What about internet controlled by a billionaire who makes sure his toxic website featuring his version of “free speech” is always available to protect his profits and spread his bullshit while undermining the policies of a sovereign state?

So much better than the evil government.

Rivalarrival ,

How many people is the billionaire incarcerating?

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Good question. He definitely seems like the type that would have a dungeon with captives.

gnomadic ,

He got his wealth because his parents owned a slave-powered diamond mine.

Also, as he hides his money and doesn’t pay taxes the US government is overburdened and one of their tools is relying on prisons for free labor.

Soooo actually quite a lot.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Let everyone incarcerated go and see how that works out for you. Not saying everyone deserves to be in there, but go on. Give it a try.

You also forget that billionaires are wealth, and so is any dictator. They both seek to protect that wealth, so it doesn’t matter in the end. A billionaire buys his politicians and you get the same result. You start threatening their money and power and they’ll come after you, whether you want equal rights or sometimes just clean water.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

That’s better than a dictator who only wants to protect his own power. At least a billionaire can be bought.

RememberTheApollo_ , (edited )

.

What the heck do you think a dictator is? A billionaire running a country.

phoneymouse ,

How about internet that can be blocked at the whims of a billionaire? At least government is supposed to answer to the people.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

*Their lobbying shareholders and maybe the people that elected them

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Dictatorships don’t answer to the people. It’s absolutely a problem that billionaires are controlling the flow of information, but it’s much worse for a dictator to do it.

Dkarma ,

I don’t see a difference tbh.

Fedizen ,

how are people supposed to pay starlink if their accounts are frozen? is starlink offering free internet?

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

As the article says, yes.

Live_Let_Live ,

W

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

just pull their business licence and any government grants then and let the world follow suit.

sumguyonline ,

So Nazi’s eh? I hate Nazi’s. Let’s unravel this knotted beast a bit. If the Brazilian citizens are posting illegal content, arrest them. Forcefully cut off their internet, -snip snip- done, seize their bank accounts, works on Russia. It should never be the job of a privately owned corporation to enforce the law when the law is perfectly capable of neutralizing the offending entities and enforcing the rules it’s own damn self, are they going to make it illegal for Walmart to sell them a cell phone? Couldn’t they just create a new account with a new email over VPN? Wouldn’t it be easier if the citizens are breaking the law to arrest them rather than take away their Twitter account? I am not a fan of that fat musky sum bitch, but there is literally no reason that judge has to go after X(I really hate that name), other than he’s swinging his dick around and doesn’t like to be told to put some damn underwear on. Arrest the citizens if they are breaking the law, if they aren’t breaking the law then what gives anyone the right to silence them? Just an egomaniac judge with no actual laws backing him and a tiny shvance facing off against a megalomaniac with a tiny shvance that consistently protects only the free speech he agrees with. There. Unknotted. If the people of Brazil want Nazi propaganda to end in a prison sentence, it should be law, and then all Twitter has to do is the same thing it does with other illegal content, turn over the user to the authorities and wash their hands of the mess. Not some judge unilaterally making free speech decisions(even in Brazil)

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

It’s perfectly valid to seize or forbid account that break the law. And if a company facilitates others to break the law you ask them to stop. In this case the company refused to… so now they are in trouble too.

If Brazil had a law that requires cars to be limited to 100km/h then they need to modify their cars to meet the law. And with ota updates do this in that country. If someone imports a car and it’s not updated even though the manufacturer knows it is in that country, they also breech the law.

zbyte64 ,

That Nazi propaganda spreading user? Elon Musk.

Sam_Bass ,

They should kick his shit out of the country

Summzashi ,

Can’t really do that when his shit is quite literally in space floating above your country in orbit.

roofuskit ,

They can easily make it illegal for them to operate there.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Like growing drugs? Good luck bro

Crikeste ,

Welcome to the world where money has more power than laws and governments. It’ll all work out fine, I’m sure.

h4lf8yte ,

What i love about musk is that he is the best bad example. Maybe someday he’ll start a war with some country and then people will start to understand that no single person or group should hold this much power. Because there are also a handful of other people and groups with the same resources who choose to hide in the background.

fossilesque ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

The Corporate Wars. 🥲

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