There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

snrkl ,

English language story from Reuters (no paywall) for anyone that doesn’t speak French…

reuters.com/…/telegram-messaging-app-ceo-pavel-du…

HarriPotero , (edited )
@HarriPotero@lemmy.world avatar

Looks like France is enforcing chat control 2.0 a bit prematurely.

The EU council is meeting to discuss it again on October 10. A new vote is likely in mid-December. Many parties and countries have turned their coat to support the proposal.

The fight is not over.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

can’t believe that letting criminals and paedophiles run amuck on your service with no moderation would have consequences.

HarriPotero ,
@HarriPotero@lemmy.world avatar

You forgot the /s

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Oh shit! Not criminals and paedophiles! I didn’t realize they were using Telegram to break the law. Yes, we should definitely end E2E encryption if that’s the case. Thank you for enlightening me 🙏🙏

CeeBee_Eh ,

I have it on good authority that pedos and criminals drive cars and eat food too! We should do something to those facilitating that.

maxinstuff ,
@maxinstuff@lemmy.world avatar

This shit is why end to end encryption is so important.

All platforms, no matter how trustworthy, can be corrupted. No e2e, no privacy.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Sounds like French law enforcement wants a police state that supercedes the civil rights of the public.

You know, the French public have a reputation for getting ugly when the state gets uppity.

That sword over Damocles is swaying in the breeze.

noobdoomguy8658 ,
@noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org avatar

Reeks of the chat history access attempts and the like, or is it just my paranoia?

MajorHavoc ,

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re wrong.

obbeel ,

And some people think Brazil is being extreme on putting fines for X (Twitter) to pay for not blocking some accounts.

This guy is accused of being accomplice to crime just for creating and maintaining the platform where criminals do their dealings.

The road is downhill, my friends.

sun_is_ra ,

Firefox french translation, not perfect but usable.

Why was he under threat of a research mandate?

The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the forces of law and order and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedo criminal offences and fraud.

This research mandate ran if, and only if, Pavel Durov were in the national territory. “He made a pellet tonight. We don’t know why… Was this theft just one step? In any case, it is ready-made”, slips a source close to the investigation to TF1/LCI. Ever since he knew himself persona non grata in France, Pavel Durov used to travel to the Emirates, to the countries of the former USSR, to South America … He had travelled very little in Europe and avoided the countries where Telegram is under surveillance.

What now?

Investigators from the National Anti-Fraud Office attached to the Customs Directorate (ONAF) notified him and held him in police custody. He should be presented to an investigating judge this Saturday evening before a possible indictment on Sunday for a multitude of offences: terrorism, narcotics, complicity, fraud, money laundering, concealment, child-criminal content…

bfg9k ,
@bfg9k@lemmy.world avatar

What crimes did he personally commit?

BearOfaTime ,

Told Russia to fuck off, and now France is complicit.

Tells us a lot about how governments view Telegram.

merde ,

has nothing to do with Russia, according to the linked article

Pourquoi était-il sous la menace d’un mandat de recherche ?

La Justice considère que l’absence de modération, de coopération avec les forces de l’ordre et les outils proposés par Telegram (numéro jetable, cryptomonnaies…) le rend complice de trafic de stupéfiants, d’infractions pédocriminels et d’escroquerie.

Ce mandat de recherche courait si, et seulement si, Pavel Durov se trouvait sur le territoire national.

En effet, Telegram est une ruche pour les contenus criminels. En ce moment, la plateforme fait l’actualité avec la diffusion illégale des matchs de Ligue 1. Mais sur cette messagerie chiffrée, de nombreux comptes sont utilisés par la criminalité organisée. Au-delà du terrorisme, les plus dangereux pédocriminels communiquent sur Telegram pour échanger des contenus. “C’est devenu depuis des années LA plateforme numéro 1 pour le crime organisé”, commente un enquêteur.

even if it’s not about telegram, this might help to understand ☞ laquadrature.net/…/encryption-discussion-during-t…

Several of the defendants were questioned about their use of tools and software such as Signal, Tor and Tails, and about the encryption of their computers and hard drives. The questioning followed the same pattern as the prosecution’s investigations, which we revealed a few months ago: a huge amount of confusion as to the technical understanding of these tools combined with a suspicious approach to their actual use. Three defendants were questioned about their motivation for using such software, as if a well-argued justification was needed, even though the tools are perfectly normal, legal and ordinary.

“It is possible and not forbidden to have these tools, but we can ask ourselves why dissimulate information” the president of the court stated. Suspicion of clandestinity coupled with little knowledge of the subject was evident in their questions: “You explain that the use of this ‘kind of network’ [Signal] was to preserve your privacy, but are you afraid of being monitored?”. Or: “Why did you think it was important or a good idea to find out about this ‘kind of environment’ [the Tails operating system]?”.

Telorand ,

Thanks for that.

So basically, “Why are you hiding from us? Only criminals hide, so you must be hiding criminal activity!”

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

From translating TFA:

Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, child crime offenses and fraud.

Same reason Russia wanted to arrest him, failure to do the government’s bidding.

bfg9k ,
@bfg9k@lemmy.world avatar

By that logic we should arrest all Car company CEOs for being complicit in crime lol, it’s not exactly his choice what people do with his product

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

The criminals ate bread before the heist, better round up all the grain farmers

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers. Which is why most sites are moderated to a degree. This dude basically said “fuck off” whenever takedowns were issued. It’s hardly a surprise that he’s been arrested.

werefreeatlast ,

But, have you noticed that after committing a crime, criminals and felons usually escape… using a car?

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

This is more like arresting the getaway driver, not the car manufacturer.

werefreeatlast ,

Not sure. I was just bored and was making a funny comment.

HarriPotero ,
@HarriPotero@lemmy.world avatar

Except the getaway driver is just a cabbie who will drive anyone who gets in. He didn’t know he was part of a heist.

Would you hold the CEO of lyft responsible if one of their self-driving cars were used in a heist?

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

If the CEO of Lyft got repeated warnings that this very thing was happening and ignored them willfully, then yes. In the end he has nobody to blame but himself. It’s no different from hosting a file sharing platform without ever vetting the content and wondering why the cops show up one day. The stupidity of going to France knowing that you’re a wanted man in a number of countries is just the cherry on top.

yeahiknow3 , (edited )

The analogy works if you lease or rent.

Rent a car, commit a crime, boom — rental company is on the hook apparently. Moronic.

Zorque ,

The rental company, on the other hand, is more than willing to turn you in to not be considered liable. Which they probably would be if they impeded an investigation.

Skullgrid ,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

Not really comparable because the illegal content is hosted and distributed through his servers.

landlords should be prosecuted for crimes commited by tenants in houses they rented out to the tenants.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

People need houses to live. Taking stuff off your own server doesn’t throw someone out onto the streets and leave them to the elements. Come on lol

Kecessa ,

If the landlord knows it’s happening and let it happen then yeah, that’s what being complicit is all about

grue ,

Illegal content is distributed through snail mail and telephones too, but those are common carriers so they aren’t liable. Why should Telegram be any different?

yeahiknow3 ,

Next they’ll make encrypting your own files illegal. Absolutely preposterous. Do better police work!

Hydra_Fk ,

So your pro arresting gun and ammo manufacturing company CEOs?

simple ,

From the article

The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the forces of law and order and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedo criminal offences and fraud.

But a lot of people are speculating they just fabricated claims to arrest him because Telegram is russian.

snooggums , (edited )
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

As the CEO he should be responsible for anything he was facilitating as part of his business, and that would include crimes committed using telegram that he was aware of and both did nothing to remove from his service and made it harder for law enforcement to prosecute. You know, like how a warehouse owner who knowingly sells space to pedos and does what he can to keep the police from searching the warehouee is complicit.

There are some circumstances where they are unaware or only take halfhearted measures, but in this case it looks like he is being investigated for actively working to enable criminals, including pedos. As the head executive, he doesn’t have to do it personally if he is directing staff to make it happen.

Edit: explaining the logic behind something isn’t the same as agreeing with that logic

obbeel ,

I’m sorry, but it’s a private messaging app! Not even the owners are supposed to know what is going on in the chats. It’s not a moderation situation - I don’t know if he rejected a request to ban accounts, but it isn’t how things are supposed to be.

snooggums , (edited )
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Well, the French police seem to be saying the way he is running the company involves being knowingly complicit, not that they just happen to be hosting/facilitating communication without the company’s knowledge.

They could be wrong, but this is part of the process of finding out.

Spotlight7573 ,

Isn’t the main problem that most people don’t use the E2E encrypted chat feature on Telegram, so most of what’s going on is not actually private and Telegram does have the ability to moderate but refuses to (and also refuses to cooperate)?

Something like Signal gets around this by not having the technical ability to moderate (or any substantial data to hand over).

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

Exactly. Telegram has a ton of public channels full of content that is illegal in most EU countries and refuses to comply with any local laws on things like hate speech. They know perfectly well what their platform is used for, they just don’t care. It would be a wildly different case if everything were E2E encrypted by default.

CeeBee_Eh ,

only take halfhearted measures

Like what exactly?

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •