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TSMC Arizona struggles to overcome vast differences between Taiwanese and US work culture

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), one of the world’s largest advanced computer chip manufacturers, continues finding its efforts to get its Arizona facility up and running to be more difficult than it anticipated. The chip maker’s 5nm wafer fab was supposed to go online in 2024 but has faced numerous setbacks and now isn’t expected to begin production until 2025. The trouble the semiconductor has been facing boils down to a key difference between Taiwan and the U.S.: workplace culture. A New York Times report highlights the continuing struggle.

One big problem is that TSMC has been trying to do things the Taiwanese way, even in the U.S. In Taiwan, TSMC is known for extremely rigorous working conditions, including 12-hour work days that extend into the weekends and calling employees into work in the middle of the night for emergencies. TSMC managers in Taiwan are also known to use harsh treatment and threaten workers with being fired for relatively minor failures.

TSMC quickly learned that such practices won’t work in the U.S. Recent reports indicated that the company’s labor force in Arizona is leaving the new plant over these perceived abuses, and TSMC is struggling to fill those vacancies. TSMC is already heavily dependent on employees brought over from Taiwan, with almost half of its current 2,200 employees in Phoenix coming over as Taiwanese transplants.

Glowstick ,

When a company opens a facility in another country, why don’t they just higher local people to be the managers?

SquiffSquiff ,

Because they don’t know or trust them

aaaaace ,

3 new chip fabs open recently around phx, which is in low-altitude desert, has had water supply issues for so long there’s a canal running from the Colo river through it all the way to Tucson.

Which is fed by a reservoir so low they find old mobster kills in barrels and might have to stop making power.

Why so stupid and short-sighted?

Ah, “faith-based”.

And a Republican governor made the deals. Who also allowed water to be used to grow alfalfa that’s sent to Saudi to feed their horses.

$$$ + no sense

432 ,

So what happens to Taiwanese manufacturing when their population collapses due to a super low birthrate. They right behind South Korea in lowest TFR.

TheGrandNagus ,

It’s happening all over the place. They’re either going to have to lean heavily into automation (where possible), and/or accept mass immigration from parts of the world that continue to have a high birth rate – although as we’re seeing in a lot of places, that can be a tough sell politically.

wizardbeard ,

accept mass immigration from parts of the world that continue to have a high birth rate

Would that not likely result in similar, but different, friction between cultural expectations about working conditions etc?

To my thinking you’d still have the problem TMSC is having right now, just more widespread as they have to adapt to whatever the culture being imported everywhere to shore up worker counts is everywhere it is happening.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

W for workers rights, L for US fab production

FalseMyrmidon ,

Oh, I think I saw this movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gung_Ho_(film)

RizzRustbolt ,

largest microchip manufacturer on the planet

front entrance looks like an abandoned 80s era mall

Varyk , (edited )

Important to note that this is Taiwanese culture, not Chinese; Taiwan is much more exacting in the finished product and generally much more attentive to human rights in terms of work culture, so it is not a direct correlation to what happened in the American Factory doc.

Which brings us to what I believe is the more salient point:

TSMC is very Christian and at least their top management likens their research, discoveries and manufacturing progress to faith-based divine revelation.

The symptoms of worker’s rights abuse may not be simple disregard for labor rights so much as continued religious fervor.

wired.com/…/i-saw-the-face-of-god-in-a-tsmc-facto…

Their R&D is scientific, but their motivation, timelines and sheer effort is strongly faith-based, in the mindset that God has allowed them to get this far and will allow them to continue to progress no matter what technological hurdles appear.

Either way, labor rights have to be respected, but I wanted to point out that Taiwan and China are entirely separate countries with different work cultures and there’s another pretty important reason why outside workers might be put off by the zealotry with which tsmc focuses on developing cutting edge chip manufacturing.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Taiwan is less than 4% Christian. I doubt workers in TSMC are significantly different.

E: 3.9%. source

Varyk , (edited )

TSMC specifically hires and promotes devout Christians for leadership positions and they say for all positions that Christian belief is important.

It’s in the attached article.

TSMC chairman Mark Liu says that “Every scientist must beleieve in God” and about TSMC’s work, “God means nature. We are describing the face of nature at TSMC”.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

3.9%

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Taiwan

Buddhism is at 35.1%, Taoism at 33%, and atheism at 18.7%.

Needless to say, Christianity is not “Taiwanese culture”. They’re about as Christian as Germany is Islamic (3.7%).

This article says nothing other than that a few people in high up positions at TSMC are Christian. It doesn’t say anything about pushing Christianity onto workers.

And yeah of course Christians say Christianity is important and that they see god in nature. They’re Christians.

Varyk , (edited )

If you’re going to blindly insist on baseless believies instead of the direct available testimony of the literal TSMC chairpeople, employees and bosses there, that’s your issue.

enjoy your dreams.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

The direct testimony of a couple of TSMC chairpeople is “I’m a Christian and I believe in God. I see God in nature, yes.”

Pretty much all Christians see god in nature. They’re Christians.

Zero evidence that they specifically hire Christians. Zero evidence that they push religion onto people.

You’re the one extrapolating that all of TSMC must be fervently Christian (not backed up by the article!), and that Taiwan in general is Christian in culture (definitely not in the article!)

I also highly doubt that the culture issue here is that Taiwan (3.9% Christian) is too culturally Christian for the US (67% Christian).

One of us is dreaming, but it’s not me.

Varyk , (edited )

You’re misquoting the article and wildly misinterpreting my comments so that you have a straw man to throw a tantrum about.

Your make-believe is showing

TheGrandNagus ,

You’re the one playing make-believe mate.

A Christian says they see god in nature and you jump to the conclusion that TSMC is effectively a faith organisation and that there’s a Christian conspiracy to push religion on workers. That TSMC is too Christian for the US of all places.

The cultural issue at play here is not Christianity lmao.

extremely rigorous working conditions, including 12-hour work days that extend into the weekends

In recent interviews, 12 TSMC employees, including executives, said culture clashes between Taiwanese managers and American workers had led to frustration on both sides. TSMC is known for its rigorous working conditions. It’s not uncommon for people to be called into work for emergencies in the middle of the night. In Phoenix, some American employees quit after disagreements over expectations boiled over, according to the employees, some of whom asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Employees were expected to pitch in with work outside their job descriptions because construction of the facility was behind schedule.

This approach did not sit well with everyone. Workers were required to do whatever was needed to finish the most pressing job, he said. Some of the American workers also found it difficult to spend a long stretch of time in Taiwan.

Yeah mate. Taiwanese culture, as well as TSMC’s, being too Christian is definitely the issue here! /sarcasm

Varyk ,

Keep making straw man arguments materially irrelevant to my comments and the testimony of tsmc themselves.

It’s easier to make your argument if you just make up your own story, isn’t it?

without all those pesky contextual facts and quotes getting in the way.

TheGrandNagus ,

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F5tkb1p3sp3531.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7ef7b32cf626c0c385214ffdbf6177fb33f0c45fa0619ff9c56430f7d971c90a&ipo=images

Varyk ,

isn’t it?

ABCDE ,

u wot

Varyk ,

I don’t understand the question

ABCDE ,

I don’t understand anything you wrote.

Varyk ,

that must be difficult

TheGrandNagus ,

It’s not really true.

It stems from a couple of their chairmen being Christian and saying “I see god in nature” (something that I imagine all Christians do).

The above user then extrapolated that Taiwan is Christian (they’re actually 3.9% Christian lol), that TSMC hires people based on religion, and that the reason TSMC is struggling with their US plant is because Taiwan is too Christian in culture for a 67% Christian country, as opposed to, oh I dunno, the discrepancy in working conditions between the US and Taiwan.

WanderingVentra , (edited )

I thought bringing Taiwanese working conditions to the US would help.

(I can’t find the full clip so you’ll have to click right on the arrow a couple times.)

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