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Even if god exists religion can't possibly be the way to god

So I thought about this in the shower amd it makes sense to me, like praying and stuff never worked for most people I know, so a direkt link to god gotta be unlikely. That made me conclude that religion is probably fake, no matter if there’s a god or not. Also people speaking to the same god being given a different set of rules sounds stupid, so at least most religions must be fake.

Zahille7 ,

Goddamn, OP. I hope you were ready for walls of text splaying out people’s entire opinions about everything on this topic.

Crashumbc ,

Why do you think they posted it?

Today ,

-like praying and stuff never worked for most people I know,-

Like they wished for a car or a pony and didn’t get it?

bi_tux OP ,
@bi_tux@lemmy.world avatar

no, I mean like they tried to talk to god

Today ,

How did they know it didn’t work? I don’t really know how those things work, but I’m pretty sure that one is mostly internal.

Crashumbc ,

You don’t understand, it is God’s will if you get it, if you don’t it’s his plan for you…

It’s a win win for him. And of course all those telling you what to do in his name :p

Alice ,
@Alice@hilariouschaos.com avatar

Lol 💯

chatokun ,

What about praying to not die of cancer or for jobs and/or places to live? Or praying for a child to live, or for no Genocide etc. Lots of nonselfish prayers out there.

Today ,

Then planes would never crash, there would be no crime, and all guns would shoot jello. Who wants to live like that?

chatokun ,

Lots of people. You enjoy people dying for no fault of their own? I don’t need planes crashing. I don’t have a personal need of guns, and if there were no unjust threats, why is a gun necessary? As for crime, crime is really a construct based on a created morality, so that’s up in the air.

My examples were about innocent people suffering, and it feels like your response is “Who would want to live in a world where innocent people don’t suffer?” I almost think you’re joking, because that’s a seriously messed up thing to admit about yourself, much less assume everyone else agrees.

Today ,

My point was that this wouldn’t be a real life. It would be like a controlled fantasy Barbie dream house life and even she gets chewed up by the dog sometimes. There is no positive without negative. There is no advancement without adversity. If everyone wins the lottery, the lottery means nothing. Life is the struggle.

chatokun ,

That’s just your myopic opinion. Plenty of people live fulfilling lives without random chance of an early death being their meaning of living. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding my original comment. I didn’t say immortality (though several religions do promise that as an afterlife), nor did I say unlimited wishes. I mostly said stuff like fatal diseases, daily needs, and unfair deaths like genocides, etc. You added in plane crashes, which also isn’t necessary for a fulfilling life.

It sounds a bit like you’re a zero sum person, like not everyone in the world can have basic needs. As a reminder, we’re discussing this under the assumption there is a loving omnipotent we can pray to. If the world is so messed up that people can’t even expect to not die horribly of stuff that just happens to them outside their own choices, or where not everyone had an equal opportunity to just live a simple life and have their needs met, then that suggests that an omnipotent God decided to make life that way, and such a being is not deserving of my worship, and hasn’t proved their existence.

AA5B ,

How can anything judge your behavior if there is interference or proof? You can only be responsible for your morality if there is true free will. If you could pray away anything bad, then it would be unfair to be judged for reward in an afterlife

AA5B ,

Not dying of cancer is selfish. It mainly benefits yourself

chatokun ,

If you think dying only affects yourself, then that’s already selfish, or sad. You have no family or friends who would mourn you? What if you’re the breadwinner, or you have young children? A person dying doesn’t affect only themselves.

AA5B ,

mainly. Yes the biggest impact is to myself. Sure my kids will be impacted but not as much

chatokun ,

Sure, for you. If a young single parent who is the only one who can support their child dies, at best they’re hoping for nontraumatic foster care, but in many places, including first world countries, it can mean far worse for them. Still, I’ll cede personal cancer for the sake of the overall point. That was hardly the worst issue in my comment.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m 14 and this is deep.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

Hey, don’t announce your vulnerable age to a bunch of old crusty strangers on the Internet

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It doesn’t matter what happens to me—as I’ve learned in this post, there is no god.

surewhynotlem ,

If there’s no god, then what happens to you is more important, not less.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I dropped my /s somewhere.

WeebLife ,

I agree, now how do I get my mom to quit telling me I’m going to hell?

kromem ,

You can point out the fact her depiction of a divine parent fails the Solomon test.

In the classic Solomon story, he tests two different claimants both saying they are the parent of a child.

The false parent was the one that only cared about being recognized as the parent and was willing to see the child harmed and killed to fulfill that desire.

The true parent was the one that wanted the child to continue to live as their complete unadulterated self, even if that meant the child never even knew they existed, let alone get they were the parent.

While it should be easy to understand why a church collecting your money promotes a divine parent who demands recognition and is willing to see its supposed children harmed without collecting its dues, it doesn’t seem all that wise to believe such a parent represents a true parent and not a false one if we use Solomon’s wisdom as a guiding principle.

WeebLife ,

She’s almost 70 now… I don’t think there’s anything I can say that will change her mind lol

therealjcdenton ,

Thank you r/atheism

possiblylinux127 ,

As it turns out, you can believe whatever you want. Religion isn’t something you can really solve with logic. It is called faith for a reason.

madcaesar ,

The fact that you can’t reasonably and logically come to the conclusion that God exists, pretty much tells you all you need to know about God and religion.

possiblylinux127 ,

That’s not how faith works though

Fedizen ,

Have you ever played a game of telephone? Even if god did speak to people why would anyone ever trust a human messenger that is so prone to misunderstanding? Unless a god arranged the stars themselves in a way that communicates a presence there’s no reason to trust human prophets about their distorted views of the divine filtered through a meager tube of experience.

Notyou ,

I always say this. Any “real god” that created everything and gave their word to humans to pass on will be distorted by the end of the day.

Humans are greedy and selfish and they will change the word to be proven right. That is what I have faith in. The human ability to fuck up shit for selfish reasons.

alsaaas , (edited )
@alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Praying works: “Thank God!111!”

Praying doesn’t work: “God works in mysterious ways… 🤷‍♀️”

Like sure if you need that as a way to cope with a depressing reality. But that is the main function of religion: to keep folks complacent, governable and prevent systemic change

(dw am not some kind of “religion bad!! no, I never interacted with organized spirituality, why do you ask?”-person. That’s just what growing up with real /j Orthodox Christianity and two hours of liturgy on most Sundays does to a critically inclined mf lol)

ameancow ,

The more you think about it all, the less sense it makes. Congrats on discovering the tiny seed of free-will we all have inside us.

Aussiemandeus ,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

What is going on with the votes on here.

Everything is zeroed out. As though there’s someone here upset by all the comments.

biscuitswalrus ,

Some people noted that the Aussie instance post update a few days ago seemed to not show votes on some other instance content. I wouldn’t worry about it, just decide your own view :)

biscuitswalrus ,

Some people noted that the Aussie instance post update a few days ago seemed to not show votes on some other instance content. I wouldn’t worry about it, just decide your own view :)

Aussiemandeus ,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

Ah yeah, just the first post I noticed almost everything being zeroed out haha. She’ll be right

AA5B , (edited )

Religion can still be legit IF

  • the goal is moral good - most modern religions have a similar moral basis, as do agnostics and atheists
  • non-interference - in this life, it’s all up to you
  • nobody can speak for whatever supreme being and it has better things to do than speak to us
  • outside of that moral foundation, it’s all more of a tool than a goal. Rituals and daily rules help you stay on the path but aren’t goals in themselves. For example if you adhere to your variation of communal prayer, you are spending time uplifting your thoughts to the moral foundation, and developing a harmony with your community. It’s a tool, a practice, to develop better habits toward your goal

Compare it to diet plans. There are many variations where the goal is to eat fewer calories but with rituals to help develop better habits and learn portion control. They are all legit approaches and you can reach your goal of a new life with whichever variation works best for you

masquenox ,

That made me conclude that religion is probably fake, no matter if there’s a god or not.

That’s not it. All religions are real - regardless of whether the things any given religion worships is real or not.

Religion is as real as money, borders and race.

outsideno1877 ,

Your just kinda messing around with words when people think religion and talk about it like this they are referring to the beliefs like a god making the world. While yes thats also religion thats not when people mean in this context since everyone knows things like churches exist

Dkarma ,

Religion is a way to avoid accountability.

xenoclast ,

It is the ultimate giving up of your personal free will… and they make it a fucking SELLING POINT.

Like door to door lobotomy salesmen.

aesthelete ,

One of the main reasons the Pope is anti-drag is that he thinks playing fancy dress up times should be reserved for only high members of the Vatican.

IzzyScissor ,

“Give me your entire life and I’ll give you rewards beyond your wildest dreams… that you can only see after you die.”

One of the greatest grifts in all of history.

cmbabul ,

I can’t think of a better one overall

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