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captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I think from Season 3 to mid-season 5 and then late season 7 of TNG, most of DS9, and a couple seasons of Voyager, this isn’t true. I think people knew at the time we had genuinely good Trek on the air.

slackassassin ,

False premise, for sure. But the debate about what’s good or not is eternal.

StillPaisleyCat ,
@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

The OP’s point is that there were old fans gatekeeping and downtalking ‘NuTrek’ pretty much since fan organizations took out full page newspaper ads in the US trying to stop TAS from being aired.

I was going to Star Trek cons in 1990. No matter how objectively great season 3 of TNG was, many TOS diehards were still campaigning against it.

Longstanding TOS fans could still be pretty toxic at that point to new TNG fans in person too. The guests at cons were still largely TOS cast. It was hard even to get a TNG t-shirt then.

Fast forward to 1993 and TNG cosplay was everywhere, the guests and panels were TNG and DS9 was the exciting new thing.

frezik ,

No, no they didn’t. Run through the alt.startrek Usenet archive throughout the '90s and you’ll find plenty of bitching about every series.

phoenixz ,

Don’t criticize the crappy thing. I love, praise it, please"

Yeah, Today is a good day to die…

Doug ,

Yesterday the thing you love was the crappy new thing and lots of vocal assholes hated it.

Today you can choose to be the vocal asshole or just enjoy the thing you enjoy, no false praise needed.

Tomorrow the crappy new thing will be fondly remembered and the vocal assholes of today will seem foolish and, in part, pretend they never hated today’s thing.

This is true across various properties. The fact that you think “we don’t want to hear your constant whining” equates to “you have to praise the thing I like even if you don’t like it” really says something.

slackassassin ,

Telling people to “cope” has never felt very chill or positive. I dunno. But, I’m super grateful for new trek, especially lower decks and snw!

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

My pet peeve is when people call (Disco and onward) “NuTrek” because that term was created to mock the “NuMetal” Kelvinverse films for their shallowness.

Now it’s mostly used by people who complain about “wokeness” or “forced” diversity or what have you.

Ensign_Crab ,

He’s the one who likes all our pretty songs.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Send the folks complaining about wokeness in “NuTrek” over to my house and we’ll watch the episode of TOS where the aliens hated each other because “they’re black on the right side.”

Doug ,

Will you let that be your final battleground?

skullgiver , (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    Corgana ,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    It also ruined the reveal about Adira’s nonbinary identity for me. I saw she

    Look, I’m sorry that representation “ruined” a low-stakes interaction about preferred pronouns for you, but it would mean a lot if you could try a little harder.

    nzeayn ,

    I fuckin love Discovery and none of ya can shame me for that. All this new era of trek fun as hell and im here for it. The abrams movies got my kid into trek because you know what, they are fun!

    I pulled away from the trek fandom back in the Voyager days. Because I love that damn show. And I got tired of hearing how much better it would be if Janeway smiled more. I love the TNG era but it had some problems. The Yar arc happend people.

    Trek is trek and it’s all fantastic. Folks who can’t be happy to enjoy all the new trek we’ve gotten are welcome to go back to grumply watching that original star wars trilogy shit. I’ll be over here with the capacity for joy rewatching all of trek now.

    Kucifus ,

    Respect.It’s not for me, but I appreciate that other people can enjoy it, no shame in liking a thing, and no shame in not liking it either. People are allowed to have opinions.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m right there with ya. Discovery won me over big-time. I am going to start season 3 in a bit.

    I am re-watching Voyager at the same time. Kind of drifted from Trek around Voyager season 4 for reasons (nothing to do with trek itself). Yeah Voyager is a hell of a show. Lots of great episodes. It’s great to see all the ones I missed and can’t wait to see how they get back (no spoilers!!)

    I’ve now picked up DS9 again where I left off a couple years ago. Season 5. Looking forward to finding out what I missed back in the day.

    I’m back to Trek because of SNW. Seriously that show reminded me why I love Star Trek so much. I will likely rewatch it soon.

    nzeayn ,

    Been hearing great things about SNW. I’ve kept that and Picard S3 back for now so I can do the whole trek run in the background while I dive into a new project at work. I’m almost done with S1 of TNG, gonna run that through Picard. Then jump back to ENT and catch up to SNW before jumping into late DSC. All 625hrs.

    Enjoy your DS9 and VOY rewatches those are fun!

    Kyle ,

    So nutrek is an umbrella term for Discovery, Lower decks, SNW and Prodigy right? It’s it common for people to hate all 4 with a passion? They’re all sooooo different. I can get hating one, because they are all basically different genres.

    I think people are afraid if they support one that they hate, then we’ll get more of the same. So have a knee jerk reaction to be toxic when their hated show is discussed. The irony being that historically star trek is a show that seeks to show an example of interpersonal harmony. These people do want an outlet to discuss their grievances about the shows but mostly see that outlet when someone mentions the show because they love it.

    If someone hates all 4, they must be pretty deep into some extreme ideology that somehow doesn’t conform with all of Star Trek.

    Maybe startrek.website needs a neutral zone that only allows constructive criticism but still provides an outlet for these feelings. 😅

    Corgana ,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    NuTrek was coined to refer to the Kelvinverse films (in a pejorative way) for being edgy and shallow like “NuMetal”, but the “anti woke” crowd ruined it just like everything else.

    5too ,

    You know, your question sparked a little realization for me - I like some of the newer series quite a bit more than some others; but I love that we’re getting such a wide variety of directions and perspectives on the themes behind Star Trek!

    Infynis ,
    @Infynis@midwest.social avatar

    I’ve reached season three of Discovery, in my effort to give it a second chance, and I’m liking it a lot more. I’ve heard the third season of Picard was good too, but I’ve not made it that far yet.

    They both just took the TNG approach of not really hitting their stride until the third season. Stamets’ meme is on point, as usual.

    I am looking forward to what they do to sell me on this new Ezri Dax meets Wesley and Beverly Crusher character. I hope they learn from Beverly’s ghost-related mistakes lol

    Blamemeta ,

    I still think Orville is better trek than nutrek.

    One of these days, Ill give it another chance, but not today.

    flicker ,

    Stamets, it's not like you to let the trolls get to you. I noticed yesterday but didn't feel like you'd appreciate that from a near stranger but it's even worse today.

    You good, friend?

    (Addendum for any reader; I know that culturally, pet names are seen as insulting in other parts of the world, but in my line of work and my part of the country, I had to delete like 10 "sugar," "honey," "darlin" and "love"s. Please keep in mind that it's meant well if you see someone like me slip up in the future.)

    Stamets OP ,
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

    No. Honestly, I’m not but it is whatever. Think I’m gonna take a break from Lemmy for a couple days.

    Have talked about how I lost my best friend a couple weeks ago over on Mastodon. Before finding that place, he was the only other person in my life who was a Trek fan and who liked Discovery. Moreover, he was positive. He had opinions of stuff he didn’t like but he focused on the positive. We both liked each other for that reason. In a world with so much negativity and hatred and bitterness, it was nice to be able to enjoy something together. However we both did shy away a lot from the Trek communities because of the often toxicity that brews against newer Treks. If we were online and encountered it, we’d go to one another. Talk about how silly other people were. How they claimed to be huge fans of Star Trek but often neglected the lessons of the show and wanted to be angry all the time. Couldn’t enjoy things for what they were and they certainly couldn’t let other people enjoy them.

    He’s dead now and can’t say or do anything. They can. They’re still around.

    I’m finding it really hard to deal with a lot of people online without him. So much negativity and it’s like the port that you’d shelter the storm in is suddenly gone. Just being tossed on the waves, drowning and being terrified and not having any light or anyone around.

    Yesterday was just… not a good day. Nothing specific. I was just having a rough day and acted like a fool. Then me and my idiot self decided to post this meme about NuTrek and for some stupid reason I hoped that it would be positive this one time. Just once.

    I’m tired of having rogue waves fling this vessel with reckless abandon.

    I’m tired of feeling hopeless.

    I’m tired of the reminders that he’s gone.

    Tired of sitting here like a fucking idiot and crying over fucking internet comments because I’m too emotionally unstable to cope with anything. It’s the internet. People are always going to fucking suck. I shouldn’t have expected otherwise and I shouldn’t have posted this thinking anything else would happen. Also certainly shouldn’t have done it when my only crutch is gone.

    It’s whatever. It’s my fault. I’m just being stupid. Sorry for whining and i’ll be back in a few days.

    Chetzemoka ,

    Stamets, I’m so sorry. I hadn’t heard. I’ve lost people under bad circumstances. It’s not fair. The world should stop, everything should stop moving and everyone should stop what they’re doing and acknowledge the depth of loss and the void left where they used to be. But it doesn’t stop moving and that’s not fucking right and it’s not fucking fair.

    Please do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Just do what’s next. Your only obligation in the world right now is to wake up and breathe. Everything else is bonus points. We’ll be here whenever you’re ready or even if you never want to talk to any of us again.

    I’m so sorry that a good person is gone.

    MrPoopyButthole ,
    @MrPoopyButthole@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d just like to remind you that you’re responsible for giving internet strangers like me uncontrollable laughs, warm fuzzy feelings, and a sense of community. Thank you for that. I’m sending my love and appreciation to you in hope that it helps you weather the storm in this difficult time 💙

    keefshape ,

    We appreciate you Stamets. A god amongst people.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s fucking awful to lose a friend. I’m so sorry.

    I think you’re right about taking a break from social media. It can get exhausting and depressing. So much toxicity, doom, negativity, etc. It can really drag a guy down. (I was going to skip it today as I’ve been in the dumps).

    FWIW I have enjoyed the hell out of Discovery. I haven’t had a show hook me that much in a while. Not done binging yet, though. Some people really do like to rag on stuff. I think life is better when one focuses on the positive instead of always trying to pick shit apart. And it’s better for others to let them enjoy what they enjoy.

    I’m sure any of us would be glad to give you “cover fire” anytime. I know I’m not alone in saying you’ve been a positive energy for Lemmy.

    Anyway…yeah, things will feel better in a few days. People out there care, k? Peace.

    flicker ,

    Take some time for you.

    I've lost a lot of people. A lot of friends. And you're right, the internet is full of angry people who just want to be angry, but moreover, it's chaotic and unpredictable. It sounds like you can use some extra grace, some extra protection, and some extra kindness. You would give it to anyone else in your position, so it's the least you can do for you.

    We haven't really met, but don't become a statistic. There's not many of us left who made it. Each time we lose one more, that means those of us left have that much more to work for, but what we work for becomes that much more precious.

    The world can handle itself for a couple days. Rest and regroup. Everything will still be there when you're ready for it (if you ever are!)

    Numberone ,

    You’re right. I’m mostly a lurker and when I do want to say something it’s more often than not sarcastic and shitty. What you say hits home and really makes me regret some of my Lemmy history. I’m sorry that life is hitting you so hard, the world is such a mess now and it really is hard to stay positive. But that’s what Star Trek is supposed to be about. Sorry we’ve let you down. That’s on us. Look after yourself my fellow trekie. Take my thanks for all that you do for the community. You’re a Trekkie god among lurkers. Live long and prosper 🖖

    rockandsock ,

    You’re not stupid. Losing a close friend is a really tough thing and not something you just shrug off.

    Sorry for your loss. Don’t let internet assholes make you feel bad for having feelings.

    SkyeStarfall ,

    Damn, I’m only a stranger that’s been seeing you around, but I’ve always appreciated what you post, and loss sucks… indescribably bad. I hope things get better, and I wish you the best.

    I’d send a hug but idk if that’s appropriate lol. Either way you deserve one.

    PochoHipster ,

    Sorry for your loss stamets. Fwiw, I actually like Discovery too, even if I disagree vehemently with the Klingon makeup design choices made

    MashedPotatoJeff ,

    Losing a friend is so hard. It affected me in ways I never expected. Family is easier in some ways.

    The kind people are out there, but they’re harder to see sometimes, especially on the internet. Hang in there, and be kind to yourself.

    Thisfox ,

    Hugs mate.

    There are those of us out here who like Discovery. We just happen not to be vocal enough. Take care of yourself and be kind. I enjoy your presence.

    GoodbyeBlueMonday ,

    I struggle to find what to say, because I’m just some random schmuck on the internet. Plenty of people post vile comments, so I’m going to post a saccharine one, in honor of your friend.

    Others have said it already, but I’ll say it again because why not: your voice online has been a pleasure.

    Grief is terrible, and I’m sorry you lost a loved one. I’m lucky enough to have a friend like the one you describe. We’re a big part of each others’ support system, and a lot of what we talk about winds up being Trek. I say that only to let you know that your grief will help me remember why I should cherish my friend, while we’re both around. Maybe that doesn’t do you any good, hopefully it doesn’t come across as selfish/insensitive on my part (if so, you have my apology in advance), but maybe it’s some consolation that you and your buddy are inspiring others who have never even met you. We all have an effect on people’s lives, whether we know when it happens or not. Just being some kind of role model, even in a small way, will influence people for the better. That’s my hope, anyway. So you and your buddy have clearly been doing this for a lot of us, here. I’m sure elsewhere. You don’t owe any of us anything, but I know seeing your positivity makes me smile.

    Wes_Dev ,

    I don’t know you, but I hope things get better for you. I’ve been in that pit more times than I can count. Nothing I can say will pull you out. So, give yourself a big hug and take what time you need. Wishing you well.

    antik ,
    @antik@lemmy.world avatar

    Take some time bro ❤️

    bravesilvernest ,
    @bravesilvernest@lemmy.ml avatar

    Am I the only one enjoying Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds as they come out then? 🙃

    Infynis ,
    @Infynis@midwest.social avatar

    You’re not. Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are very popular. They’re fantastic shows. The ones people don’t really like currently are Picard and Discovery.

    bravesilvernest ,
    @bravesilvernest@lemmy.ml avatar

    Fair enough! Those are the ones I have heard pretty much nothing about except in jabs about them. Thanks!

    pimento64 ,

    Probably because they’re not very popular in the first place: people have to like the shows enough to keep watching them for there to be any content, and most people do not.

    PsychedSy ,

    Red Letter Media is masochistic at times and I think they cover Picard pretty thoroughly.

    thecrotch ,

    It’s like when they made Picard and discovery they couldn’t decide what kind of show they wanted to make. Then someone was like “hey, what if we made star trek?” and strange new worlds was born

    Infynis ,
    @Infynis@midwest.social avatar

    Yeah, that was my main problem with Discovery when it first came out. It had been so long since we’d had Star Trek, and then they made a new Star Trek show. I was so excited. And then they didn’t do Star Trek.

    Stamets convinced me to give it another shot though, and I’m on season 4 now, and since Season 3, it really has been Star Trek. I just watched an episode where the ship got captured, and they had to take it back by being clever and competent. And then they fought for the rights of a sentient computer. Really classic Trek scenarios. I like most of the characters now, and while it’s still serialized, it’s more episodic than it was. Season 3 episode 2 got me to really love three characters I previously didn’t really even like.

    ThrowawayInTheYear23 ,

    and Prodigy!

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    Nope. Not at all. I can’t wait for more.

    Discovery … I still can’t believe what they did to the Klingons and I have other issues but… goddamnit that show won me over in spite of itself. Will start season 3 in a while. And I liked the first two seasons of Picard I don’t care what anyone says.

    I might be alone in saying all that, idk lol

    7of9 ,
    @7of9@startrek.website avatar

    I enjoyed the first two seasons of Picard more than the third. It takes all sorts, I guess.

    skullgiver , (edited )
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Jaccident ,

    TNG didn’t redesign the Klingons, that was the The Motion Picture with subsequent small revisions through the TOS films.

    barsoap ,

    Discovery had soooo much for Klingon nerds: Hours upon hours of dialogue in Klingon, and (without actually knowing Klingon) with proper pronunciation, tons of warrior honour culture and its existential clash with federation ideals, and people are complaining about hair. Fucking hair.

    alansuspect ,

    I haven’t watched Lower Decks yet, the SNW cross-over episode was fun but I found the characters from LD a bit annoying. SNW is great though, it’s like classic trek with higher production values.

    I really tried with Discovery but stopped around season 2 or 3 (around the time they took it off Netflix), it seemed to struggle with itself a lot. Maybe I need to give it another try, I like the idea of the jump to the future.

    Picard, it was cosy to be back with the old characters but the writing was pretty poor.

    slackassassin , (edited )

    The LD characters seemed annoying because they were cartoonish, on account of them being cartoons. They played it up to be how people act in the future. But it doesn’t feel out of place in the actual cartoon. Imho.

    CheeryLBottom ,

    I’m completely enjoying both!

    Telodzrum ,

    Lower Decks is the best Trek since Ent went off the air, IMO. I didn’t care for Disco, largely. Picard was more action than I was in for at first. I’m really enjoying SNW, though.

    UnspecificGravity ,

    Lower Decks is awesome. The only thing I didn’t like about Picard is that romulans and vulkans need to wear nametags if they are both going to wear federation uniforms.

    radix ,
    @radix@lemmy.world avatar

    Mediocre TV Star Trek >>>> No TV Star Trek

    2005-2017 were the real dark years.

    aeronmelon ,

    Stamets: “Say something positive about Discovery!”

    Anson Mount as Pike. Which was such a good idea it spawned an actually decent show.

    “Say something positive about Picard!”

    It’s over.

    :)

    Stamets OP ,
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

    Not asking anyone to say anything positive about anything. I’m just asking people to be positive. Something that a lot of people seem to be utterly incapable of.

    TheRealLinga ,

    Today is a beautiful day and I’m happy to have a Trek (discovery) that has hooked my kids the way TNG and DS9 hooked me!

    GreenMario ,

    Picard Season 3 is dope.

    Draghetta , (edited )

    I mean you’re not wrong, but discovery is quite objectively garbage. It lacks good writing, good characters and anything that makes it a Star Trek other than using the IP. No philosophy, no exploration, no character arcs. Jason Isaacs is pretty much the only redeeming quality.

    Unlike tng, I don’t expect discovery to be a fan loved classic any time in the next century.

    Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school

    Stamets OP ,
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar
    1. It’s DSC. Not STD. Calling it STD has never made sense and is just a flagrant insult to the show. No other shows acronym starts with ST. Stop being so disrespectful. You can share your opinion without mocking stuff, especially given the description.
    2. No it is not objectively garbage, that is your opinion.
    3. “Please be chill and positive.” “No.”
    Draghetta ,

    Sorry for having come off that way, I’m just a regular guy that doesn’t really like the show for the reasons I said.

    STD is Star Trek discovery and I never meant anything with it, didn’t know it was insulting. Don’t know how it “doesn’t make sense”, it’s literally the acronym of the series.

    But eh.

    wizardbeard ,

    I have a hard time believing you’re not being willfully obtuse here. Does it really need to be spelled out to you that STD already has a meaning? Sexually Transmitted Disease.

    No one acronyms Star Trek: Deep Space Nine to STDS9, Star Trek: The Next Generation to STTNG, Star Wars: The Force Awakens to SWTFA, Star Wars: A New Hope to SWANH, or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 to CODMW2. You drop the prefix: DS9, TNG, TFA, ANH, MW2.

    Alternatively, no one shortens the above to STD, STN, SWA, SWH, CDM.

    In verbal conversation, calling it Disco saves you a syllable compared to STD. In text, DSC is the same amount of characters.

    There’s no point trying to defend your choice here. You call it STD because you don’t like it and calling it STD made you chuckle. I get it, it made me chuckle the first time. I really don’t care whether you like it or what you choose to call it. I watched most of season 1 and it just didn’t click for me.

    I just can’t imagine being the kind of person that would try to say they don’t understand why calling it STD could be taken badly. Wow. Reminds me of school days, the kids with the sheer audacity to tell the teacher they didn’t bring a cellphone into a test while their pants are blasting out a compressed to hell 30 second loop of a top 10 song as a ringtone.

    Draghetta ,

    I’ll be honest here, the whole std thing feels rather immature. Yeah of course I thought of the other meaning for the acronym, didn’t think people would be so childish as to consider that. Let’s be real, every acronym in the world is probably also an acronym for something nasty - but you can’t take that burden on yourself every time you type. If you have a hard time believing i was honest then don’t believe it, but the fact that I’m being accused of something so trivial speaks more of the accuser than it does of me.

    I didn’t mean to make a pun at stds, it’s baffling that people would interpret it that way. That show is crappy enough to insult itself, why would anyone bother calling it names. It doesn’t need any help being ridicule.

    As for your “other acronyms” point: other series are made of multiple words. TOS, TNG, DS9, they’re all acronyms. Discovery is only one word, how are you supposed to call it? D? DSC is not an acronym, if I were to randomly select letters from the name just to save space I’d just call it by its full name.

    I realised STD could mean both and decided to go through with it anyway because I thought we were talking between adults but clearly you made up your mind about me long before giving a damn about who I was.

    kittyrunningnoise ,

    I agree with you. The other people in this thread are quick to judge and could stand to learn from some of the wisdom in the shows about which they have such strong feelings.

    Draghetta ,

    👏👏👏👏👏

    flicker ,

    This was uncalled for, and a quick look through your comment history indicates that you're either a person who thrives on taking an opposing viewpoint for the sake of being an oppositional pain, or a troll. I'm going to go with the latter.

    Dissonant discourse has value but you're intentionally inflammatory so from me, to you, kindly fuck right off. Try and learn something from this. I will engage you no further.

    Kucifus ,

    Guy writes respectful and reasonable personal opinion on discussion board - downvoted. Guy swears at him and tells him he’s a troll, upvoted.

    We really are Reddit 2.0.

    Corgana ,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    lmao “reasonable personal opinion” go back to Reddit with that nonsense.

    Draghetta ,

    Or maybe I just have different opinions from you on multiple things and you just told a regular guy like you to fuck off because of that. But ok, feel free to disengage.

    SkyeStarfall ,

    You wrote “objectively garbage”, though. An opinion by definition is not objective, so I don’t really know what you’re trying to get at here.

    At the very least you could phrase it in a constructive manner.

    Draghetta ,

    I don’t need to be constructive because I’m not talking to the show writers or anybody who is responsible for it. I’m in a community of fans, I thought we could just speak our minds about stuff here and say it sucks when it sucks.

    Yes I wrote “objectively” because i didn’t just dislike the show out of personal taste, but because the writing is atrocious (ask anybody who knows anything about writing, it’s trite and shallow) and the Star Trek element just is not there. Call the first one subjective, but you can’t argue with the latter.

    There are plenty of things about the show I dislike subjectively, and if you want I can write an essay on it - but that was not the point of my comment. The show has traits that are arguably bad regardless of taste. You may personally like to hear the ramblings of a drunk junkie and find plenty of amusement in doing so, and if that is the case then more power to you. But it doesn’t make it good material.

    USSBurritoTruck ,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school

    Buddy, considering how absolutely childish the moniker “STD” has always been, you’ve got no ground to whine here.

    Secondly, at least in middle school, children are taught the meaning of the word, “objectively.”

    Draghetta ,

    May be that way for a native English speaker I guess. I have never used it or seen it used as a moniker.

    USSBurritoTruck ,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    Interesting theory. If you’d never previously seen “Discovery” called STD, what made you choose it?

    Kucifus ,

    Maybe the fact that the three words in the title are Star Trek Discovery? It’s not a ridiculous notion.

    USSBurritoTruck ,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    There is no other Trek that follows that name convention. We don’t call “Voyager” STV or “Enterprise” STE. For me to believe that someone had a) never seen someone use STD applied to Disco pejoratively and, b) decided to use that abbreviation when DIS, DSC, and Disco are all far more common, I would have to be convinced that this is their first week discussing Star Trek on the internet.

    ininewcrow ,
    @ininewcrow@lemmy.ca avatar

    Don’t forget old was once new Trek and people didn’t like it back then.

    I’ve met people who watched The Original Series as teenagers in the 60s, loved it and never wanted to watch anything else again and say they will never watch any of the new stuff.

    Personally I love it all … warts and all.

    There is just so much now and it’s not easy to find the time to see it all.

    My dream now is to see all of DS9 from beginning to end. I’ve only ever seen a handful of episodes in random order never from beginning to end.

    Shialac ,

    DS9 is my absolute Favorite Star Trek Show

    Blackout ,
    @Blackout@kbin.social avatar

    I didn't understand or care for it when it first came out but now it is one of my favorites. I love the characters, Kai Winn warts and all :⁠-⁠)

    Kucifus ,

    Hard disagree, new star trek has had years to “settle in” and has shown almost no signs of improving on the things that make it poor quality - namely low effort pandering writing and a lack of respect for its audience. Alex Kurtzman and the executives are the problem, and they’re not going anywhere soon.

    lgmjon64 ,

    I miss how campy it used to be. I feel they finally nailed it with Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds, but Disco and Picard were rough. Picard S3 was a little more tolerable though.

    Kucifus ,

    I did enjoy Picard S3, but that notably didn’t involve Kurtzman.

    USSBurritoTruck ,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    It 100% did involve Kurtzman. People out here just making up whatever nonsense fits their narrative. Clown shit.

    Corgana , (edited )
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    Camp is an intentionally over-the-top stylistic choice, it’s a specific well defined style. It doesn’t just mean “silly” or “cheesy”. Star Trek isn’t camp.

    Sorry to be that guy but it’s one of my pet peeves.

    slackassassin ,

    Plenty of Trek camp was/is very much self-aware and intentional.

    Corgana ,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    [citation needed]

    slackassassin ,

    SNW S1e8 and trouble with tribbles. Just off the top of my head.

    slackassassin ,

    Also, many holodeck eps and the ones where everyone is horny.

    Stamets OP ,
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

    All the exact same arguments that were made against TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.

    But way to look at the description of my post and say “Nah, positivity? Fuck that.”

    Thanks for that.

    MudMan ,
    @MudMan@kbin.social avatar

    Here's a controversial thought: The worst Trek is at the absolute worst kinda decent, and it only goes up from there.

    My Trek power rankings don't line up with most (Discovery is pretty great, DS9 is kind of annoying, all the Kelvin Treks are fun and the first one is pretty great), but even the parts I don't like I can watch and be chill about it.

    Picard is bordering that line, honestly, but I can't be actively mad at Patrick Stewart and I actually would have watched a cheaper, longer show about the La Sirena crew without the TNG baggage.

    Kucifus , (edited )

    You can reasonably disagree with a critical response to a TV show without it being a personal attack on your positivity or that of your post. What are you looking for here? An echo chamber makes for a boring discussion board.

    I think it’s fair enough to expect writers to understand and respect the media they’re working with, and I’d argue that the writing in all those previous shows was leagues more intelligent and considered than the stuff on Kurtzman shows. I get very frustrated at how what was a show about professional and considered officers dealing with clever sci fi scenarios is turned into an action slog “fuck yeah science” show. It’s not smart or interesting like that.

    EDIT: noticed your post above about the difficulties you’re going through. We can disagree about a telly show and still respect each other, I don’t think discussion spaces like this might be healthy if you’re struggling with positivity. It’s totally okay to like the new trek shows and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be positive.

    MudMan ,
    @MudMan@kbin.social avatar

    Oh, bless you.

    Being old enough to have Voyager and especially DS9 be my "nuTrek" and also never having let it go I can feel your nerdrage as a warm, fuzzy winter fire.

    Can I interest you in how DS9's focus on greed, war and moral compromise is a betrayal of the concepts behind Star Trek and if they wanted to make Babylon 5 they should have just made Babylon 5?

    Kucifus ,

    I’m old enough for that too. I saw and enjoyed both DS9 and Babylon 5 when they came out! There are definitely issues with DS9, but it never treated the audience as stupid or took its material anything other than seriously. It was ambitious and very well written, especially the Cardassian characters.

    I get particularly frustrated at the “teen humour” focus of the new stuff, it’s just not written with me in mind and that’s fair enough but I don’t think we should be comparing it to the old stuff and arguing it’s the same level of quality because that’s not accurate.

    MudMan ,
    @MudMan@kbin.social avatar

    I like that you like DS9. Good for you. It's there for you and that's fine.

    But it's a weird show that is a fundamental contestation to what makes Star Trek appealing and pretends it isn't.

    It's fine. All of Trek is fine. But if you ask me if I'd rather watch Discovery, I'd watch Discovery any day. Which, again, is fine, because both of those exist and are at the very least decent.

    I'm not sure how much "teen humor" there is in modern Trek, though. I mean, there's Lower Decks, but that's the point of Lower Decks and I kinda warmed up to it over time. Ditto for Prodigy.

    If anything Picard was overly self-serious, and one could argue the same of Discovery, at least during the first season. I kinda see it in SNW, and I do think Season 2 tries to do too much too soon, but whatever, that show has a specific niche and that's where it lives.

    Man, can I just stop to say that I just rattled off five different Star Trek shows, all of them different and all of them at least decent? What a time to be into this particular series.

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