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Trainguyrom , in Aaargh....my eyes......my eyes......

Hey, this must be that self-documenting code I keep hearing about

marcos , in Skill issue

It’s called PEBCAK.

Brazilian Portuguese has a funnier version named BIOS.

jkozaka ,
@jkozaka@lemm.ee avatar

O que significa BIOS (nesse contexto)?

rambling_lunatic ,

Burro Idiota Operando o Sistema

marcos ,

Bicho ignorante operando o sistema.

fibojoly ,

Oh I love that one! Cheers for the explanation !

heavy , in Whoa there buddy, calm down

Where is this from? I don’t think exposing the key breaks most crypto algorithms, it should still be doing its job.

nulluser ,

r/whoosh 😉

heavy ,

No, really though, where’s it from?

CanadaPlus ,

The private key, or a symmetric key would break the algorithm. It’s kind of the point that a person having those can read it. The public key is the one you can show people.

heavy ,

Doesn’t break the algorithm though, you would just have the key and then can use the algorithm (that still works!) to decrypt data.

Also you’re talking about one class of cryptography, the concept of key knowledge varies between algorithms.

My point is an attacker having knowledge of the key is a compromise, not a successful break of the algorithm…

“the attacker beat my ass until I gave them the key”, doesn’t mean people should stop using AES or even RSA, for example.

cynar ,

The purpose is to access the data. This is a bypass attack, rather than a mathematical one. It helps to remember that encryption is rarely used in the abstract. It is used as part of real world security.

There are actually methods to defend against it. The most effective is a “duress key”. This is the key you give up under duress. It will decrypt an alternative version of the file/drive, as well as potentially triggering additional safeguards. The key point is the attacker won’t know if they have the real files, and there is nothing of interest, or dummy ones.

heavy ,

I appreciate the explaination, that’s a cool scheme, but what I saying is the human leaking the key is not the fault of the algorithm.

Everyone and everything is, on a very pedantic level, weak to getting their ass beat lol

That doesn’t make it crypt analysis

cynar ,

An encryption scheme is only as strong as its weakest link. In academic terms, only the algorithm really matters. In the real world however, implementation is as important.

The human element is an element that has to be considered. Rubber hose cryptanalysis is a tongue and cheek way of acknowledging that. It also matters since some algorithms are better at assisting here. E.g. 1 time key Vs passwords.

heavy ,

Very informative, I think people will learn from what you’re saying, but it doesn’t really matter to what I’m saying.

Yes, absolutely, consider the human element in your data encryption and protection schemes and implementations.

Beating someone with a pipe is a joke, but not really defeating an algorithm.

CanadaPlus ,

Okay, I don’t know if anyone was saying we should abandon encryption, though.

perviouslyiner , in Whoa there buddy, calm down

One possible countermeasure being en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption

CosmicTurtle ,

There was an encryption system a few years ago that offered this out of the box.

I can’t remember the name of it but there was a huge vulnerability and basically made the software unusable.

Crypt box or something like that.

perviouslyiner ,

The prominent one was called Marutukku - and the developer turned out to be someone who might actually need the feature.

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I know veracrypt has a form of this. You can set up two different keys, and depending on which one you use, you decrypt different data.

So you can encrypt your stuff, and if anyone ever compels you to reveal the key, you can give the wrong key, keeping what you wanted secured, secure.

mojofrododojo , (edited )

won’t they know there are files they haven’t decrypted?

if it could hide or delete the remaining files encrypted that would be nifty.

milicent_bystandr ,

Full disk (/partition) encryption means you don’t know what files there are until you decrypt. Additionally for that sort of encryption scenario you fill the partition with random data first so you can’t tell files from empty space (unless the attacker can watch the drive over time).

Ookami38 ,

If you set it up correctly, this is essentially what it does. You have a disc that is, say, 1tb. It’s encrypted, so without a key, it’s just a bunch of random noise. 2 keys decrypt different vaults, but they each have access to the full space. The files with the proper key get revealed, but the rest just looks like noise still, no way to tell if it’s empty space or if it’s a bunch of files.

This does have an interesting effect. Since both drives share the same space, you can overfill one, and it’ll start overwriting data from the second. Say you have a 1tb drive, and 2 vaults with 400gb spent. If you then go try to write like, 300gb of data to one vault, it’ll allow you to do so, by overwriting 200gb of what the drive thinks is empty space, but is actually encrypted by another key.

018118055 ,

As referred in other comment, the counter counter is to just keep beating to get further keys/hidden data.

Ookami38 ,

Game theory would lead you, as the tortured, to realize that they’re just going to beat you until death to extract any keys you may or may not have, so the proper answer is to give them 1 and no more. You’re dead anyway, may as well actually protect what you thought was worth protecting. Giving 1 key that opens a dummy vault may get the torturers to stop at you, thinking this lead is a dead one.

018118055 ,

Probably best to avoid systems with known deniable encryption methods, and keep your dummy data there. Then hide your secrets e.g. in deleted space on a drive, in the cloud, or a well-hidden micro-sd card. All have risks, maybe it’s best of all to not keep your secrets with you, and make sure they can’t be associated with you.

018118055 , in Whoa there buddy, calm down

There are some cases involving plausible deniability where game theory tells you should beat the person until dead even if they give up their keys, since there might be more.

MotoAsh ,

I mean, I’d definitely do it to SBF if his crap wasn’t cleaned out already. Though admittedly I’d largely keep going just because this world DESPERATELY needs fewer SBF types in it…

dominiquec , in Whoa there buddy, calm down
@dominiquec@lemmy.world avatar

By any chance is this from Andrew Tanenbaum?

OozingPositron , in Skill issue
@OozingPositron@feddit.cl avatar

Works on my machine.

jwhardcastle , in Skill issue

Layer 8

Kolanaki , in Whoa there buddy, calm down
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

If you wanted to bring down a server, the best hack is unplugging the rack from within the data center.

vzq , in Whoa there buddy, calm down

Closely related to:

xkcd.com/538/

Although that looks more like a $50 wrench to be fair.

jqubed ,
@jqubed@lemmy.world avatar

It even says as much in the bonus text!

agent_flounder ,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

Inflation.

Godnroc ,

I don’t think an inflatable wrench would work very well.

BleatingZombie ,

Now I’m just imaging a judge trying to get order in the court room with an inflatable mallet

Godnroc ,

“Order! Order in the Court!”

SquEAKy

redcalcium ,

It’s free if you borrow from your in-law (then never return it).

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

I knew somebody would have the relevant xkcd.

assembly ,

I’ve used a duress password with crypto containers since the old TrueCrypt introduced me to it a while back. Sure you can have the password and unlock the vault but it’s just text file notes in there that aren’t at all important. In reality though, no one would ever give a shit about my data enough to even ask me my password.

CanadaPlus ,

What, you think that guy dishes out for non-stolen wrenches?

exocrinous , in I just ask my problem bro...chill....

I love it when the top Google result for a problem is a thread saying to Google it. Exactly what I needed, thanks asshole.

bleistift2 , in I just ask my problem bro...chill....

Peple misunderstand “Closed as duplicate” as an insult, when it’s just the hint to look at the provided link. If you didn’t find the answer previously, this just means there are multiple ways to express the problem, which use different words and thus don’t all find the same google result.

BatmanAoD ,

They also changed the wording from “closed” to “on hold” years ago, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the people complaining about the site take any notice.

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s because they don’t use the site and they don’t have a problem to solve. They’re just here to complain.

codemonkey644 ,

But it’s those people who close it as a duplicate and not post the link to a valuable answer.

bleistift2 ,

You cannot even mark it as duplicate without providing a link to the answer. What are you talking about?

https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/5a9fd699-51a2-440e-ac02-4ae1d5551ff5.png

lastunusedusername2 ,

You can provide a link to an answer but it’s invariably not to the same question.

MotoAsh ,

No, it is always the same question.

… from a person sitting in a very different situation with a slightly different problem.

marcos ,

Some times the question has no semblance at all. Other times the answer has no semblance at all. Some times there’s no answer at all. And obviously, modern SO is full of people that will just post a ridiculously incorrect answer. There is a wide variety of possibilities!

I remember being very surprised as a I followed one of those links and got the answer I needed. But I don’t remember exactly when.

MotoAsh ,

I’ve had both happen a lot. Only the basic stuff gets a correct answer, because nuance is difficult even for the tech savvy.

lastunusedusername2 ,

At the very least it has some of the same words. And the person marking it as duplicate figured it was probably the same.

Heavybell ,
@Heavybell@lemmy.world avatar

It’s annoying when it is not a duplicate tho

Anticorp ,

Which is quite often

BatmanAoD ,

That’s fair, but if you edit the question to explain how it’s different (without which, how could anyone even answer your question?), it can be (and often is) reopened.

PoastRotato , in Whoa there buddy, calm down
@PoastRotato@lemmy.world avatar

Do they… they torture them with a rubber horse…?

ETA: Goddammit it says rubber hose

MagicShel ,

Not to be confused with rubber horse troubleshooting.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Nay

agent_flounder ,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

Idk what you’re into buddy

but I like it.

kautau ,

We should accept, neigh encourage this person

MicrowavedTea , in I just ask my problem bro...chill....

Especially useful when the specific thread is now the first result on Google.

FizzyOrange ,

Yeah this is one of the main reasons why Stackoverflow’s question closing policies are bullshit. We’re going to close the question so nobody can answer it… but they can still upvote it and it will still be ranked highly on Google!

Bunch of idiots.

You know the SO Devs actually tried to improve this a while ago - I think you would be able to reopen your question once or something. Of course the power-hungry mods hated that idea and the abandoned it.

At this point it’s unfixable. They depend on their unpaid mods and they’ve already attracted the sort of people you absolutely don’t want to moderate a site.

The only hack I’ve found is that if your question gets downvoted/closed you are allowed to delete it, wait half an hour and ask it again. Much better odds of success than editing the question.

Corbin ,

You can help by gaining points on multiple SE sites and participating in elections. Please vote!

FizzyOrange ,

You can’t. The kinds of people who are nominated are the wrong kinds of people. I’ve participated in many SO elections and none of the candidates ever mention any of these issues.

VeganCheesecake , in Aaargh....my eyes......my eyes......
@VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

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