Oh!! Haha I didn’t realize that until I read it again 😅 That’s a confusing sentence if you read it the other way. I wonder if there’s a name for sentences that change meaning as you read/hear the later part of the sentence.
Exactly my point. In the second case the two lines are also not the product, but it’s heavily implied that the dam, bridge is something useful, while the python code is useless. There are many examples where the opposite is the case
I get it, haha. I know this is a programmer community, but it’s funny to me to think of programming as a progression beyond traditional engineering disciplines, rather than along side them.
I’m in engineering school and the ethos definitely is “engineers write bad code but it’s for simple tasks involving complex math.” As the world of engineering steers more and more towards coding we’re definitely going to be expected to write applications instead of simple Matlab scripts and there’s no way it’s going to be pleasant.
I believe that if an Electrical Engineer has qualification as a programmer then the two fields become the higher discipline “Computer Engineer.” At least most universities arrange their classifications as such.
Comp Sci is not engineering. Programming is not engineering. I don’t mean this in an elitist way, it just flat-out doesn’t fit with other engineering fields. It’s firmly in the T area of STEM, not the E.
Computer engineering is the hardware level of designing and building computers, it might involve firmware depending on the job and the area but it’s way closer to electrical engineering than software engineering. Software engineering is also very different than computer science.
Software engineering is called that because it is the equivalent of engineering in software. You are engineering and designing a product/system. Computer science is more of the theoretical side, more detailed study of algorithms and math, etc.
What do you think of electrical engineers? Is that “real” enough to be called engineering?
Computer Engineering is hardware engineering for Computers, with some programming. It’s a child of Electrical Engineering, just like Electrical Engineering is sort of a child of Mechanical Engineering.
The part where you have to fundamentally understand how hardware actually works, ie how transistors, integrated circuits, and logic gates actually work on a physical level.
You’re thinking of Software Engineering, and even then you’d still be off.
The point where I was using my master’s in computer engineering to design physical chips? You know, using my fundamental understanding of electricity, magnetism, and the physics that come along with it.
Software engineering is just what any “engineering” field would be if they didn’t have standards. We have some geniuses and we have some idiots.
Mechanical engineers, civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc. are often forced to adhere to some sort of standard. It means something to say “I’m a civil engineer” (in most developed nations). You are genuinely liable in some instances for your work. You have to adhere to codes and policies and formats.
Software engineering is the wild west right now. No rules. No standards. And in most industries we may never need a standard because software rarely kills.
However, software is becoming increasingly important in our daily lives. There will likely come a day wherein similar standards take precedence and the name “software engineer” is only allowed to those who adhere to those standards and have the proper certs/licenses. I believe Canada already does this.
Software engineers would be responsible for critical software, e.g: ensuring phones connecting to an emergency operator don’t fail, building pacemakers, securing medical records, etc. I know some of these tasks already have “experts” behind them. But I don’t think software has any licensing/governing.
Directly opposed to “engineering” would be the grunt work which I do.
Engineer tends to be a protected term in many countries, so software engineer is no exception. It’s words like “programmer” or “developer” which are probably unregulated
The weird thing is that engineer is a protected term in Canada but every software dev title I’ve had so far includes it anyway. It doesn’t seem enforced at all here
I honestly thought there was too, my official job title / offer includes it in the role, despite the role explicitly having no requirement for an engineering degree.
I always found it funny, how I could do a 4 year electrical engineering degree, then work as an electrical engineer for 4 years, but never do my final law/ethics exam so couldn’t call myself an electrical engineer, but could just teach myself python and call myself a software engineer, turns out I was wrong.
It is awkward though, especially in a remote work world, given that we compete directly against American “software engineers” for the exact same jobs.
Software engineering does have standards and methods to developing software. These standards and methods are applied in Defence and Aerospace applications. Software engineering was developed or conceived by NATO to manage the increasing complexity of software development.
The big problem is people often confuse software development or programming with software engineering. Calling anyone that programs a software engineer. This isn’t the case. It’s entirely possible to be a software engineer without knowing how to code (but impractical).
I’d be very interested in learning more about how Canada manages “software engineer.” Because whatever is being done certainly doesn’t seem to include mandating where regulated professionals must be employed or punishing failures.
Saskatchewan’s electronic health records system (eHealth) has had a couple of egregious failures that it shouldn’t have taken a “software engineer” to prevent.
Several 911 services became unavailable during an outage that happened to also disrupt point of sale payment systems nationwide.
Both of the relevant companies are telecommunications companies (Telus and Rogers, respectively), where one would expect “software engineering” to be conducted by “software engineers” regardless of regulation.
A quick search for breaches in critical personal information will show that Canada is performing about as well as the US. Which is to say, abysmally.
“because software rarely kills” Depends on what you mean by rarely. Therac-25 was extremely dangerous due to a software bug. And this was over 40 years ago.
Industrial robot accidents are a lot more common than needed and almost all are due to software “problems” (bad path planning, bad safety implementation, or just bugs in the control system software)
Yes these things kill less than guns, or cars, or cranes, etc. But they still have affect in a lot of those accidents.
There are very few things anymore that don’t have some kind of logic built into them. Be it software or analog logic, it was still “programmed” or designed. If there was something missed in design, that can easily have adverse affects that can lead to accidents and death not immediately attributed to the software.
I was comparing it to civil or mechanical engineering. I agree that programming/software is growing and “infiltrating” our lives. That’s why I think it will become a licensed/certified term in the future. Software engineer will require a cert and some products will require certified engineers. Whereas web apps developers (most likely) will not use that title most of the time and we will just bifurcate those who work on “critical software” and those that do not.
There are definitely quality certifications for software. Plenty of govt acquisitions contracts require such certifications. We probably aren’t far from laws or executive mandates which require such things tbh
This is the best part when you finish setting up your server. I was so happy when I can access my backup files and my media server I want to setup Home Assistant one day for a local, private smart home
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