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Bandicoot_Academic ,

Fuck Nintendo!

Tankiedesantski ,

Welp, guess I’m downloading a copy of yuzu just in case.

pivot_root , (edited )

Nintendo give an example in their complaint with The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom saying that it was “unlawfully distributed a week and a half before its release by Nintendo” and that copies of it were “successfully downloaded from pirate websites over one million times before the game was published and made available for lawful purchase by Nintendo”.

Back when I was on that shithole other link aggregation website, I said this would happen because people couldn’t wait 7 more days for the public release before bragging about emulating TotK and sharing a clearly-not-legally-dumped ROM around.

I don’t care what people do in their free time as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else negatively, but it was hard not to see this coming because people couldn’t keep their mouths shut and just enjoy the game. Now, we all might lose future updates to Yuzu if they settle or Nintendo wins the suit…

M500 ,

Nintendo is basically saying that they are guilty of enabling piracy.

That same argument would paint gun makers as guilty of enabling murder and crime. Nintendo should really be going after rom sharing sites. That’s totally legit, but not the emulation devs.

If they have a fund for legal costs I’ll donate.

crispy_kilt ,

That same argument would paint gun makers as guilty of enabling murder and crime.

You’d be correct of the law were logical, but it is not. Check this out: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_pr…

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

They made certain fucking numbers against the law?!

AFC1886VCC ,

“18”

“You’re going to jail, motherfucker”

kryllic ,
@kryllic@programming.dev avatar

Nintendo should sue Microsoft for providing an operating system that people use to pirate digital goods. Maybe IBM too for creating the mouse to lower the barrier to piracy?

M500 ,

You know why I played the games on yuzu? It’s because the joycons suck and they are expensive to replace.

I did the stick drift repair on my own, but the L and R buttons are soldiered to the main board so it can’t be repaired.

I bought a right joycon on its own and then the next week the left joycon had the same issue.

I wasn’t going to spend about $90 for an unreliable controller when an entire steamdeck costs $500.

It really paints the picture that the controllers are way over priced how can they alone be 20% the cost of the entire steamdeck.

If Nintendo made decent joycons, then I would not be using Yuzu.

Additionally, I dumped my own games and keys, so they got their money and through some effort, I got a better experience.

I’d like to add that the joycons were not heavily used either.

Flax_vert ,

Joycon drift is the main reason why I stopped playing my switch.

Tankiedesantski ,

I’ve been eyeing Yuzu to play games like Pokemon Scarlet and Xenoblade 3 since they both run like shit on the switch and a smooth 60 fps at 4k on Yuzu.

I bought both games at release, I just can’t stand playing at 20 fps.

WarmSoda , (edited )

Why didn’t you just get a better controller? You would have saved yourself a lot of time, effort, and probably money.

M500 ,

I’m not in the US, so the options I had here were either expensive or didn’t have any reviews.

I’ve been wanting a steamdeck for some time and that is what pushed me to get one.

Rentlar ,

A lot of modern controllers are really ass tbh. I still use a wired usb xbox 360 controller. Doesn’t work on Switch without modding/hacking/emulating.

WarmSoda ,

You are stuck two decades ago in time. There are plenty of good to great controllers. Shit, there’s multiplatform controllers that work perfectly and have all the bells and whistles and gyros that first party controllers have.

Rentlar ,

True, I bet there good ones out there, but I have no need to replace it yet.

WarmSoda ,

But you’ll complain about using twenty year old technology anyways, and make up nonsense about current tech. Ok.

Rentlar ,

I’m complaining about manufacturers cheaping out, not the age of the tech I’m using.

WarmSoda ,

But you are wrong. A lot of modern controllers are not ass. The Switch controllers are. That’s it.

shadow ,

I’m also in the “my USB Xbox 360 controller is great” camp and wish that they still made them

HungryJerboa ,

Your situation is not applicable to why the lawsuit exists.

It’s the idiots that pirated and leaked TOTK a week before the release date that gave Nintendo ammunition for this case. As a result, everybody who is using Yuzu legitimately will suffer for it.

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Every hacked switch can do it too, but they aren’t going against Atmosphere.

M500 ,

Yuzu did not pirate the game. Other people did. What did Yuzu do that was illegal?

Did the movie studies sue dvd player makers because people ran pirated movies on them?

WarmApplePieShrek ,

yes

AtmaJnana ,

Unfortunately, PS5 controllers have the same issue. Slightly cheaper, but same exact shitty parts for the joystick. Going to try aftermarket (with serviceable parts) for my next one.

graymess ,

Not for you since you’ve exited the Switch, but for anyone else with stick drift: Gulikit makes replacement hall effect joycon sticks that do not drift. Easy to replace and inexpensive.

shadow ,

Just try not to get fakes that are just the normal garbage with drift

buckykat ,

Sony v Bleem ended with victory in court for Bleem, but it also ended with Bleem out of money and out of business. Nintendo doesn’t have to have a legal leg to stand on to practically win, just a big pile of money which they definitely do have.

mnemonicmonkeys ,

True, but if Yuzu wins then Ryujinx is probably safe. Also, Yuzu is pure software from what I’m aware. If they hold out long enough to win the case, they don’t have to worry about capital for pushing physical sales

Zedstrian ,

Can’t sell boats anymore, they clearly facilitate piracy at a colossal scale. /s

moosetwin ,
@moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

fuck me, yuzu was one of the emulators I was excited about

pivot_root ,

git clone https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu.git

If the developers settle or lose the suit and have to take down the code, at least you’ll still be able to compile all the old releases.

miracleorange ,

Ryujinx is a thing.

glibg10b ,

Web browsers facilitate piracy too

brax ,

The Switch facilitated piracy of Switch games because the games only exist because of the hardware.

I sure hope Nintendo sues those filthy Switch people out of existence!

rebelsimile ,

The electric company is clearly complicit.

Thcdenton ,

Hey Nintendo, Eat dick.

FuckyWucky ,

Good luck to them. Regardless I’m sure it’ll be forked if development stops.

kirbowo808 ,
@kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

Time to boycott Nintendo Online and Nintendo in general for doing so many Ls as of late

WarmSoda ,

Time? No one should have used Nintendo Online after they started charging for it. 365 days of the year thier games are full price, and they can’t afford a free ptp online service? But ohhh wait look they added 3 new old ass games for you this month! Aww they’re so cute (oh some of those games they themselves pirated? Silly scamps)

kirbowo808 ,
@kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

I agree it’s a complete scam tbh esp as you’re forced to pay for cloud backup as well. I was given the membership via friends, hence why I haven’t paid it so far, though have been guilty of buying games from them but what Nintendo is doing now is honestly inexcusable at this point, despite many other times they fucked up before and haven’t done shit to solve it. Instead, criminalising those for archiving their games.

WarmSoda ,

I have a switch and I have thier games. I hear ya, I agree

wise_pancake ,

It doesn’t matter, it’s legal to create emulators and plugins for interoperability.

Yuzu cannot distribute switch games, nor distribute Nintendo software, but it can emulate the console.

pivot_root , (edited )

Unfortunately, it’s more of a gray area than most people think.

17 USC §1201 (f)(1)

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.

Ok, and that applies to…

17 USC §1201 (a)(1)(A)

No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And a technological measure is:

17 USC §1201 (a)(3)

to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

Perfect! Right?

17 USC §1201 (a)(2)

No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

© is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And unfortunately, Yuzu is capable of and needs console keys to decrypt games and system firmware files.

The reverse engineering for interoperability exception, (f)(1), only explicitly exempts (a)(1)(A) for research purposes. If Yuzu—as a software product—is found to have the primary purpose of circumventing Nintendo’s DRM, it will be in violation of (a)(2) and the developers are not protected.

This is something that will need to be tested in court, but the only way they would be entirely in the clear is if they stripped out all encryption/decryption code and forced users to use some other tool to fully decrypt the firmware, NAND filesystem, and game image filesystems during dumping. They’ll likely argue that the primary purpose is preservation, and Nintendo will use the fact that the Switch is still sold in retail as a counterargument to suggest that their development of the emulator was unnecessary and not in good faith. If they instead argue that it was created as a development or debugging tool, Nintendo could point to their low barrier of entry for developers to obtain a devkit (as evidenced by the crapton of shovelware and asset flips in the E-Shop).

If they don’t settle, it’s going to be an expensive mess to sort out.

wise_pancake ,

Thanks for providing all that info, I was aware of some but not all of that. Is my understanding that just providing the emulator without keys correct? Besides the keys themselves and the switch OS, there’s nothing that bypasses copyright. It does seem like from the other comments here that the devs may not have kept a clean separation which will now bite them.

pivot_root , (edited )

Almost. The technical stuff is going to be a bit butched, but I’ll drop the legal speak and be more human for a minute:

What makes this unique isn’t that Nintendo is going after them for providing the keys, but for actually using them. Yuzu asks the user to dump or acquire prod.keys on their own, and then it uses that to read encrypted data. The fact that it does that, regardless of whether the keys were obtained legitimately or not, is where the argument that it’s a DRM circumvention tool lays. Yuzu itself is supposedly “circumventing” Nintendo’s DRM process by using the keys in a way that bypasses all of the protections that Nintendo put into place to prevent the games from being loaded on non-Switch hardware.

The Yuzu devs’ willingness to have FAQs and a quick start guide explaining the requirements and steps to emulate commercial games on Yuzu is definitely going to bite them and undermine any defense they had for not knowingly marketing it as a circumvention tool. Another criterion is that Yuzu has to have some commercial significance if it were to lose its ability to circumvent DRM. And, as we know, it’s an emulator…

The best chances they have is to convince the judge that Yuzu isn’t primarily designed as a circumvention tool (which, once again, isn’t helped by their guide on how to run commercial games) or that it falls under the accessibility exemption added recently.

wise_pancake ,

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense.

To me just asking for the key alone seems fine (I’m not a lawyer, but other tools like open transport tycoon and other tools do that), but advertising how to get those keys as you said will probably over the line, and advertising it as posting Nintendo titles more so.

atmur ,

I don’t play any Switch games and have never used Yuzu, but I just started donating to their Patreon. Hopefully they can afford to go to court over this. Nintendo can pound sand.

SoleInvictus ,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

Same, I just signed up. Here’s the URL for anyone else interested:

www.patreon.com/yuzuteam

Fuck Nintendo.

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

“Nintendo sues” oh look it’s a day that ends in Y. The only person Nintendo isn’t dead set on suing is Nintendo.

Here’s you 937th remake of Super Mario Bros 2 that you can only rent, have a nice day.

And our online service is absolute trash but you’ll pay anyway to have a legal emulator until we also discontinue that for Super other garbage online service!

kumatomic ,

Don’t forget that they will hide behind arbitration to avoid paying up for knowing seeking shoddy consoles/controllers.

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

Oh don't even get me started. Hall effect has been known since 1879, those JoyCons didn't use it because it was cheaper to use shitty graphite. They literally went the cheap ass route because they didn't even care.

WallEx ,

And still charge premium money for the controllers

accideath ,

That’s not even necessarily the issue. XBox and PS controllers also don’t use Hall effect. I’ve never had an xbox controller drift. You’d have to seriously abuse them for them to break. Nintendo isn’t just cheaping out on the tech but also on the build quality itself. But what do you expect from a company that sells a console that was obsolete when it was released, hardware wise. For the third time.

AtmaJnana , (edited )

The issue is also rampant with PS5, unfortunately.

accideath ,

Don’t own a PS5 so I sadly/luckily don’t have experience with that

blanketswithsmallpox ,

Xbox controller drift

Really? That’s usually the quickest issue my controllers have with occasionally sticky thumb buttons. I’d gone through so many I just get Blue PowerA controllers now. They’re better than $200 ones for 1/8 the price, and have great warranties.

Stick drift and non optimal buttons are instant killers for any decent platformer.

accideath ,

Both my two 360 controllers and my xone controller are drift free and I’ve had them for a while. And my 360 controllers have been abused by my little brother for a while. They have issues (like the rubber off the sticks getting rubbed away slowly), but drift isn’t one of them. Heck, even my old Wii Nunchucks are drift free and they’ve been abused a lot.

mamotromico ,

I agree that they definitely also develop drift sooner or later, but I have yet to see a controller drift as fast as joycons do, with the exception of maybe the first batch of dualsenses that were atrocious for some reason

Lemmchen ,

Their Emulator can’t even run SNES games at a stable framerate.

Seleni ,

Actually, they sued themselves once too

Zink ,
@Zink@pawb.social avatar

Don’t know the website, is this bait?

Mini_Moonpie ,

It’s even worse than that. The only way to back up save files for games like Animal Crossing, which can represent a ton of playtime, is to pay for their online service. The save games aren’t saved to the cartridge like they were with 3ds and you can’t back up saves locally on the SD card either.

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