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KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

brb downloading Yuzu repo

fne8w2ah ,

Good luck to those out of touch wankers.

wise_pancake ,

It doesn’t matter, it’s legal to create emulators and plugins for interoperability.

Yuzu cannot distribute switch games, nor distribute Nintendo software, but it can emulate the console.

pivot_root , (edited )

Unfortunately, it’s more of a gray area than most people think.

17 USC §1201 (f)(1)

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.

Ok, and that applies to…

17 USC §1201 (a)(1)(A)

No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And a technological measure is:

17 USC §1201 (a)(3)

to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

Perfect! Right?

17 USC §1201 (a)(2)

No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

© is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And unfortunately, Yuzu is capable of and needs console keys to decrypt games and system firmware files.

The reverse engineering for interoperability exception, (f)(1), only explicitly exempts (a)(1)(A) for research purposes. If Yuzu—as a software product—is found to have the primary purpose of circumventing Nintendo’s DRM, it will be in violation of (a)(2) and the developers are not protected.

This is something that will need to be tested in court, but the only way they would be entirely in the clear is if they stripped out all encryption/decryption code and forced users to use some other tool to fully decrypt the firmware, NAND filesystem, and game image filesystems during dumping. They’ll likely argue that the primary purpose is preservation, and Nintendo will use the fact that the Switch is still sold in retail as a counterargument to suggest that their development of the emulator was unnecessary and not in good faith. If they instead argue that it was created as a development or debugging tool, Nintendo could point to their low barrier of entry for developers to obtain a devkit (as evidenced by the crapton of shovelware and asset flips in the E-Shop).

If they don’t settle, it’s going to be an expensive mess to sort out.

wise_pancake ,

Thanks for providing all that info, I was aware of some but not all of that. Is my understanding that just providing the emulator without keys correct? Besides the keys themselves and the switch OS, there’s nothing that bypasses copyright. It does seem like from the other comments here that the devs may not have kept a clean separation which will now bite them.

pivot_root , (edited )

Almost. The technical stuff is going to be a bit butched, but I’ll drop the legal speak and be more human for a minute:

What makes this unique isn’t that Nintendo is going after them for providing the keys, but for actually using them. Yuzu asks the user to dump or acquire prod.keys on their own, and then it uses that to read encrypted data. The fact that it does that, regardless of whether the keys were obtained legitimately or not, is where the argument that it’s a DRM circumvention tool lays. Yuzu itself is supposedly “circumventing” Nintendo’s DRM process by using the keys in a way that bypasses all of the protections that Nintendo put into place to prevent the games from being loaded on non-Switch hardware.

The Yuzu devs’ willingness to have FAQs and a quick start guide explaining the requirements and steps to emulate commercial games on Yuzu is definitely going to bite them and undermine any defense they had for not knowingly marketing it as a circumvention tool. Another criterion is that Yuzu has to have some commercial significance if it were to lose its ability to circumvent DRM. And, as we know, it’s an emulator…

The best chances they have is to convince the judge that Yuzu isn’t primarily designed as a circumvention tool (which, once again, isn’t helped by their guide on how to run commercial games) or that it falls under the accessibility exemption added recently.

wise_pancake ,

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense.

To me just asking for the key alone seems fine (I’m not a lawyer, but other tools like open transport tycoon and other tools do that), but advertising how to get those keys as you said will probably over the line, and advertising it as posting Nintendo titles more so.

Buddahriffic ,

Thanks Nintendo, this shit reminded and motivated me to cancel the auto-renew for my subscription. It is done.

NocturnalMorning ,

Wow, fuck Nintendo. For well over a decade they didn’t give a shit about emulating old games. In fact, it was and is still the only way to play a lot of old games. Now nintendo is trying to use their shit flimsy online emulator as an excuse to claim IP right to 30 year old games they don’t give a shit about. Granted this is about the emulator itself, but doesn’t matter. Guess I won’t be buying the next switch console.

Alto , (edited )
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

There's a fairly big difference between "you're making an emulator for a console we stopped selling anything for a decade ago" and "you are actively cutting into the sales of everything we are currently doing"

Frankly, Im not quite sure what anyone expected. Of course they were going to go after them harder tan usual, especially when they made it pretty obvious they used proprietary code from TOTK. I'm as pro-piracy as they come, but ya still gotta use some of your brain.

E: sp

NocturnalMorning ,

Eh, I don’t really care. Now that every manufacturer and developer under the sun has decided I don’t own the games I buy. I couldn’t care less about their games getting pirated. I mean, I don’t own the game anyway according to their ToS, I just rent it.

But it’s more than that. I can’t even find old game isos easily anymore. Nintendo went out of their way to threaten legal action against sites that had been up for over a decade so they could do their shitty online emulator store.

They’re going after everyone now. I bought my switch in 2016, won’t be buying another one.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

I'm not saying they're right for it, just stating what reality is. Anyone with half a brain knew this was coming the second they used proprietary code.

Sethayy ,

used code from totk? What? They implemented patches early using knowledge from it, but including even a single line from the game would be incredibly stupid and contradictory to having to dump your keys in the first place

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Watching the latest accursed farms video was very eye opening, even services like GOG with no DRM probably still have that legalese where you don’t own the files, but in reality you do since they can’t stop you from playing them, the legal sphere is even more of fantasyland than I thought, it actively denies reality.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

The precedent that almost everyone cites (because it is some of the only) is Sony vs Bleem.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!

Initial release was in 1999 and lawsuits were around the same time. PS2 launched in 2000. So while the bleem marketing was a complete mess, the emulator existing while a console was still “alive” does not matter in the slightest.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

The main point of that ruling was that they weren't using proprietary code. Yuzu almost certainly did after the TOTK leak, unless they magically just happened to improve that much directly afterwards.

I don't like it, but there's a pretty big chance that Yuzu loses this one.

breakingcups ,

That’s not what using proprietary code means in this case.

Besides, it’s possible they “legitimately” bought a copy of the game from a store that accidentally broke the embargo date. You can’t legally blame customers for that.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Yes. I agree and said as much elsewhere in this thread.

My issue was with your statement of

There’s a fairly big difference between “you’re making an emulator for a console we stopped selling anything for a decade ago” and “you are actively cutting into the sales of everything we are currently doing”

Where, no, there is not a difference there.

trafficnab ,

Sega v. Accolade was about using proprietary code, Sega lost and the small snippet of code that was reverse engineered out of the Genesis was deemed fair use because there was no other way to get an unlicensed cartridge to run on the console

Sethayy ,

They didnt use any code from TOTK (such would be piracy); they did however use it to improve the emulator via game specific patches before the release date (hinting some devs got the game less than legally, but not yuzu itself)

brax ,

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

Why don’t people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered? Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I’m sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Viking_Hippie ,

Why don’t people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered?

Because gun makers lobbied congress to make it specifically illegal to do so. Even though unscrupulous practices by said gun lobby is responsible for probably hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

They get sued for accidents caused by defects quite often.

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I’m sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Happened with Mega and countless torrent sites so yeah, you’re probably right 😮‍💨

Jako301 ,

Why don’t they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.

Not really. PCs aren’t purpose build to run emulators, these emulators just happen to also work on them.

Emulators on the other hand are purpose build to circumvent anti piracy measures (which is illegal even for your own use), even if piracy may not be their primary intention.

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

Emulators on the other hand are purpose build to circumvent anti piracy measures

No, emulators are purpose built to allow you to play a game on another platform. That’s literally what they’re for.

Whether the game is legally purchased, pirated, shareware or abandonware is completely irrelevant to the purpose and function of an emulator.

Personally I have used emulators to play old Commodore 64/Amiga games from my childhood, ditto DOS games and one of the old Pokémon games to see what the fuss was about.

None of those games were available for purchase anywhere aka it was all abandonware and not piracy. I do my piracy with torrents of games meant for the PC like most people.

Btw, as someone pointed out elsewhere on this post, there’s another good reason to use an emulator even for games available to purchase for the intended system: expensive peripherals that break and can’t be fixed. Unlike some vastly superior ones made for playing on the PC.

Zedstrian ,

Can’t sell boats anymore, they clearly facilitate piracy at a colossal scale. /s

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

The DMCA anti-circumvention angle is scary, it’s so draconian they may actually win. Even though Yuzu is open source, not many people want to paint a target on their back.

kirbowo808 ,
@kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

Time to boycott Nintendo Online and Nintendo in general for doing so many Ls as of late

WarmSoda ,

Time? No one should have used Nintendo Online after they started charging for it. 365 days of the year thier games are full price, and they can’t afford a free ptp online service? But ohhh wait look they added 3 new old ass games for you this month! Aww they’re so cute (oh some of those games they themselves pirated? Silly scamps)

kirbowo808 ,
@kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

I agree it’s a complete scam tbh esp as you’re forced to pay for cloud backup as well. I was given the membership via friends, hence why I haven’t paid it so far, though have been guilty of buying games from them but what Nintendo is doing now is honestly inexcusable at this point, despite many other times they fucked up before and haven’t done shit to solve it. Instead, criminalising those for archiving their games.

WarmSoda ,

I have a switch and I have thier games. I hear ya, I agree

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

If anyone or anything is facilitating piracy of Nintendo games on an enormous scale, it’s the asinine anti-consumer policies of Nintendo themselves.

pivot_root ,

I’m pretty impressed with The Verge this time around.

They did a very good job quickly explaining the legal stance and argument that Nintendo has with their lawsuit, what needs to happen for it to be successful, and how the precedent set in 1999 around emulators isn’t applicable to this suit.

KpntAutismus ,

if it runs better, at a higher resolution, with the option of using a reliable controller, i will emulate it.

glibg10b ,

Web browsers facilitate piracy too

brax ,

The Switch facilitated piracy of Switch games because the games only exist because of the hardware.

I sure hope Nintendo sues those filthy Switch people out of existence!

rebelsimile ,

The electric company is clearly complicit.

Bandicoot_Academic ,

Fuck Nintendo!

Tankiedesantski ,

Welp, guess I’m downloading a copy of yuzu just in case.

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