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What is the actual point of a bra?

Let me preface this by saying I am a man, and smoked a little too much, so I’m sitting here thinking… what is or was the original purpose of a bra? Weight support? Vanity? Covering the nips so people’s eyes met your eyes and you can have a normal conversation? Like what’s it all about?

2ugly2live ,
@2ugly2live@lemmy.world avatar

Can’t speak for all, but back pain and comfort. Also, large breasts can have difficulty getting air under there which can cause irritations. Sometimes it’s just to keep your breasts off your stomach. I wear sports bras and have “special” bras, but my hatred of bras has really dimished when I accepted sports bra life.

I also just don’t like them “loose?” Like, I don’t want to bend over and have them go awol, even if I’m at home. Also, can store stuff in the bra and I have dropped my phone on the floor thinking I had a bra to catch it 😭

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

I am someone who has had very large breasts and fairly small breasts in my lifetime. When my boobs were big, wearing bras was manageability and comfort. They were heavy and hurt my back and were always in the way. In addition, it was hard to do any sports or be active without being, what I called, double strapped: having a bra with a sports bra over the top. This is how I got through high school.

Now that I’ve both had a breast reduction and lost a lot of weight, my boobs are smaller and I don’t wear a bra often. When I do, it’s a vanity thing, I think my boobs look better under some clothes when wearing a bra, and a utility thing, like when I’m working out or doing something strenuous. Also, I wear one when I’m at work because it seems more appropriate.

weker01 ,

I’m actually quite interested in dress history. I’m an engineer at heart and clothing is fundamentally also an engineering problem (and design of course). It’s an area of engineering that was always dominated by women and you can sometimes see the novel approaches that brings.

For example historical corsets were actually quite comfortable when fitted right. One reason why is actually breast support. Predecessors to the modern Bra did exist but were not in fashion as a more compressed looking bust and later a shaped silhouette was in fashion.

Also it’s cool what tricks one can use to form the silhouette without extremely compressing the waist (which is how many modern people often think is the function of a corset).

I recommend Bernadettes channel on this topic: link

jadedwench ,

I saw the picture first before reading your comment and thought it was from her channel. Bernadette is awesome.

DessertStorms , (edited )
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A lot of replies here ignoring the obvious - patriarchy, religion, and capitalism.

There are plenty of examples of societies past and present, for the vast majority of the time humans existed probably, where breasts are free to exist as they are. The people those breasts are attached to do all manner of work and activities without hinderance, or chafed nipples. Just like those with flat chests do.

The reason that in (especially our western) modern world we are expected to wear bras has to do with puritanism, shame, control, and profiteering from all of the above.

Comfort is categorically not a priority of the billion dollar bra industry, the trillion dollar advertising industry, nor those who demand we wear them to be “respectable”, lest we “excite” their, or their son’s, urges or “distract” them from their important manly duties (and if we don’t, and they attack us, it’d be our fault for not being “modest” enough and “asking for it”).

When we have all been socialised with these demands and expectations for centuries, they become so deeply ingrained, it’s really hard to separate from our own free will, and yet ask any group of people who wear bras what the best part of the day is, and they’ll tell you it’s taking it off.

And to be clear - this isn’t a judgment of anyone who wears a bra, I wear an underwire once in a blue moon which I hate, but am usually in a sports bra because I feel more comfortable with everything held in place (and also have nosy neighbours I’m not that friendly with), it’s about questioning why I feel more comfortable that way, and how much of that is natural vs manufactured by a society that demands I keep everything held in place, hidden (unless they’re “required” to sell something or entertain the mens), and forever impossibly youthful and perky.

Anyway, I’m stoned too and I tend to ramble, so I think I 'll leave it at that for now lol

EABOD25 OP ,

I mean no offense, but after all of the work women have done to get the rights and regards that they have today (don’t misunderstand me, there’s still work that can be done), and excuse my assumption, but it would be more or less the woman’s control of whether they would/should wear a bra, so the argument (I’m going to summarize to list to a single word. I mean no offense, but it’s my perception. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) of whether you should or shouldn’t is a feminist argument that feminist are the ones that argue about the most. However, I still believe “your body your right”. Do what you want.

However I had 2 ulterior motives for asking: 1) to actually know where and why bras were first used 2) the vast majority of people (cis, trans, straight, gay, men, and women) enjoy boobs. There are people on the planet that sexualize boobs, but boobs are a hot topic. People enjoy talking about boobs, and to me it’s a weird phenomenon. About the only exception I think to that rule would be gay men, but they can probably still appreciate a good pair of pups.

Again, I mean no offense. I just believe that some conversations about boobs are neither alienating or innapropriate. I hope I explained this in a way that isn’t creepy. If it does seem creep, please let me know and I’ll try to reword it

DessertStorms , (edited )
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A lot of replies here ignoring the obvious - patriarchy, religion, and capitalism.

I’ll be honest, if you don’t have an understanding of how deeply these (along with white supremacy, cis heteronormativity, ablesim, classism) impact not only society at large, but our individual choices (or lack thereof), and it sounds like you don’t (E: among other reasons - the existence of feminism doesn’t negate the impacts of the aforementioned systems, if anything, it exists because those systems are still completely pervasive and need fighting against), I can’t really help at this point, there’s just too much to unpack and it’s not work I’m interested in doing for you.

As for your ulterior motives - the first is easy to resolve by opening a search engine and looking it up, the second absolutely makes you sound like a creep, and also provides a perfect demonstration of the kind of external pressure we face that more often than not compels us to cover up - we feel you “appreciating” our “pups” (aka your “male gaze” or simply you objectifying us. And no, trying to pull an “all genders sexualise” doesn’t change the fact that cis men are who predominantly harm women and others afab). And it’s fucking gross.

Maybe you should read my first reply again, this time try and actually listen to the experience of a person explaining to you the pressures they and others like them face from society that you never have, instead of dismissing it because it makes you uncomfortable to confront, and then invest some of your own time actually researching the topic, not of why people wear bras, but of how fundamentally social constructs impact society and all the individuals in it, and maybe you’ll start to get an idea of what the actual answer to your question is.

But I have a feeling you’re not interested in doing any of that, so I’ll just leave you with this - boobs don’t exist for you.

EABOD25 OP , (edited )

Ok well, I haven’t attacked anyone and have made it clear that my own perceptions and beliefs could use some work. I haven’t used personal attacks. And I’m very interested in changing my perception… as long as those who perceive things differently are as respectful to me as I am to them.

So now for you specifically, here’s the deal. Your first argument to my first ulterior motive is you proving you are self-righteous because I posted this on “No Stupid Questions”. Which makes you the asshole in this regard while I’m truly trying to learn. Second, you are the first person to have such an issue with my asking. So there’s a great chance that my line of asking isn’t the problem, but it’s you that’s the problem

DarkThoughts ,

A lot of replies here ignoring the obvious - patriarchy, religion, and capitalism.

They're not. OP is asking the actual point of them, and you're bringing modern politics into it, which are a very recent development. "Bras" go way back, like thousands of years BCE, all with very different functions.

Reyali ,

ask any group of people who wear bras what the best part of the day is, and they’ll tell you it’s taking it off.

Nah fam. I can’t stand being without support unless I’m in bed. I’ve gotten used to wearing just an elastic sports bra at home, but I can’t stand being without underwire when I’m moving around a lot or out of my house. The bra does not come off until I put PJs on. (And even then, I’ve started sleeping in my sports bra more often than not.)

Getting my first properly fitted bra was life-changing. My chronic back pain dropped by about 70% and existence became dramatically more tolerable.

RagingHungryPanda ,

bras were a cheaper alternative to corsets. and yes, they were popular and not as oppressive as hollywood would have you believe, and they were considered good for back support. Bras didn’t need nearly as much metal or time. And since they were cheaper, they were more common. At least, from things I’ve heard elsewhere.

Reyali ,

Can confirm that corsets can be comfy, and particularly good for back pain.

I’ve also actually had a doctor recommend I wear a corset, lol. (Cardiologist recommending abdominal compression to help me black out less.)

Nefara ,

Breasts can get heavy, and the sensation of gravity constantly pulling down on the skin of your chest and on your soft tissue can be very uncomfortable. If you get sweaty, moisture can get trapped underneath and cause rashes or fungal infections. Moving about, they can get in the way of your arm movements and if jumping or running the movement can be downright painful. Imagine piercing your ears with heavy weights and then shaking your head. You would want to minimize their movement!

Historically, women have used woven cloth bandeaus, breast bands, belts, straps, stays, corsets, bralets, bodices and all sorts of things to try to minimize movement and support breast tissue. Bras are just the most common contemporary thing.

EABOD25 OP ,

So with all you mentioned (and please don’t misunderstand my intention for asking. I truly am unaware) does it cause damage to the actually mammary glands in the breast? Or are you just referring to skin deep damage?

Nefara , (edited )

It can cause some damage, in that the tissues inside the breast can lengthen and lose their firmness. It doesn’t damage function in any way but it could be considered premature aging. There’s that photo series of the white woman with the African tribeswomen and they’re comparing their breasts,

NSFWhttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cbd02829-24e7-4429-8e32-e708f0008d60.jpeg

because the African women were so interested in how her breasts were a different shape than theirs. If you’ve seen pictures of people from cultures who don’t wear clothing that supports breasts, you can see the difference in shape that constantly fighting against gravity makes.

EABOD25 OP ,

I know exactly what you’re talking about, and again please excuse my ignorance and bluntness, but saggy boobs don’t necessarily mean lack of milk production?

Nefara ,

Correct, in fact size, shape, perkiness, all of the cosmetic factors seem to have no correlation to milk production. The major factors for an individual’s milk supply seem to be age, genetics, stress and hormone levels.

Source

EABOD25 OP ,

No I have another question about Perkiness, but I’ll throw that question at my wife. Thanks for the info!

RBWells ,

Size of boobs has no bearing on milk production. We all have the same equipment in there, more or less, most of the difference in breast size is just fat. I never got big boobs while nursing and made so much milk, it’s made on demand when the baby nurses, not stored in the boobs!

lovely_reader ,

If you’ve seen pictures of people from cultures who don’t wear clothing that supports breasts, you can see the difference in shape that constantly fighting against gravity makes.

There are a lot of factors that can contribute to sagging, but bralessness doesn’t seem to be one. There are studies indicating that bras likely weaken breast tissue over time, making sagging more likely in people who wear them regularly. Of course, even those studies are tricky to generalize to the broader population because of how many factors there are to control for (breast size, pregnancies, tobacco use, genes, etc etc etc). What we do know is that the difference in breast shape from one whole ethnic group to another is largely attributable to genetics, and as for the photo: those women simply have very different bodies.

Interestingly, photos of African women have been used countless times throughout history to dishonestly market bras to fashionable Westerners. The image of African women who simply have a different body type from their own has frightened millions of white ladies into bras.

Nefara ,

Hmm I didn’t know that, thanks for the info. There’s probably a major factor of sample bias in that perception too, as Western women who wear bras and whose breasts naturally look like the African women’s wouldn’t be recognized as being similar, unless you’re intimate or sharing a home. It seems I fell for the propaganda, or “bra-paganda”, if you will.

NeatNit , (edited )

I think it’s much the same purpose that underwear serves for the testicles (and penis). As a man, I honestly can’t remember any time I walked around without underwear, but I’m pretty sure it would be worse than with. Things would just flail everywhere.

Other answers about bras are great but I thought the male flip side ought to be mentioned.

EABOD25 OP ,

Meh. I went without underwear for a while. It’s kind of freeing when I’m at home, but those times I have to run out and forget to put on shorts or pants without a belt, it’s a little stressful lol. The first thing my wife does when she gets home is takes her bra off, so I ultimately guess it could be the same, but there’s no social impacts if men don’t wear underwear under their trousers when in public

recursive_recursion ,
@recursive_recursion@programming.dev avatar

it provides support and helps prevent nipple chafing

bear ,
  • sports: chest binding
  • aesthetics: style choices
  • modesty: cultural views
sunzu ,

You don't want to provoke the boomers with a young woman's nips!

EABOD25 OP ,

I wish I did have nipples that offended boomers, but I’m a cis straight dude

sunzu ,

"offended"

EABOD25 OP ,

Look bro, and I apologize if any of my language seems harsh. I’m still trying to figure out if you’re trying to be instigating with your correction. So instead of an argument where we both lose, were you trying to just be corrective and respective or we’re you just trying to be a grammar troll?

sunzu ,

it was rather ambiguous, fair point

i was going for sexually uncomfortable as in predatory old man vibe

i can guarantee you one thing... me deff not a nazi grammar and my sloppy body of work is testament to that

EABOD25 OP ,

I see. You have suggestions to reword it with sou ding creepy or should I just delete the whole thing?

sunzu ,

not a suggestion for rewording, i think u/cheesymoonshadow did even better than my explanation.

Just highlighting that that "offended" is fake news for people who don't understand boomer psychie

EABOD25 OP ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    sunzu ,

    https://kbin.run/m/[email protected]/t/554981/What-is-the-actual-point-of-a-bra/comment/4772097#entry-comment-4772097

    You even responded already haha

    i think we are all aligned!

    Nice circle jerk boys! we can hit the showers now

    EABOD25 OP ,

    I sent a comment before this, but afterwards I realize I had an opinion on this. I’ll delete the first point, but would still like a link to who you were talking about. And my asking isn’t something that is going to offend me, but you feel it’s relevant thus my opinion is relevant to your opinion. Do you think I have an outdated perspective?

    sunzu ,

    If you used offended as per dictionary definition, then yes.

    Boomer behavior re younger women is a bit unsettling, I noticed when I was growing up. I am making broad strokes here obviously but large segment of male population see nothing wrong with the likes of Epstein and his clients. Also, they used to make jokes about casting couches etc... how did that age? Hollywood? Gaetz or whatever that tsex pest ordering jail bait comes to mind too, they will execute that shit.

    I have seen them acting "offended" in person, it was not offense, it was some weird power flex or in ability mange their urges. An adult man who acts like that is registered as sex pests in my mind.

    EABOD25 OP ,

    I’m neither going to disagree or agree with you with the regard of the question that I asked. Epstein and the ilk is a completely different conversation that I personally would not rather not get into ATM. And I want to reiterate that me not wanting to talk about it is neither a condemnation or a promotion.

    cheesymoonshadow ,
    @cheesymoonshadow@lemmings.world avatar

    I took it to mean they meant that said boomers were only feigning taking offense but in reality enjoying the view.

    EABOD25 OP ,

    No no no. Absolutely not! I’m assumingly speaking for most people in general. I’ll do my best to make sure I’m the only asshole in my assumptions

    RBWells ,

    I don’t think it was the boomers, that’s the disco and Debbie Harry generation, right? In the 1970s the natural shape was fine and average bra size 34B. So boobs were smaller and bras less essential. The Wonderbra is the time I remember this changing, so sadly I believe it was us, GenX, who drove this change. Not me personally, I hate it. But my age group.

    UnRelatedBurner ,

    I’m a visual learner btw

    EABOD25 OP ,

    Well, best of luck to you when you speak to women in the wild

    shit_of_ass ,
    @shit_of_ass@sh.itjust.works avatar

    boobies

    postmateDumbass ,

    You mean where the tassel goes?

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