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Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Israel wants to take over far more. They have litarally said they wanted to take over Turkey.

This stops like how the Nazis were stopped from expanding their Lebensraum. By asking them very nicely to stop and explaining they are mean.

Maggoty ,

The sarcasm is strong in you today. :)

homura1650 ,

The Israeli government has no idea what it is doing. Literally. The current government was a barely held together coalition prior to October 7. In the direct aftermath, they formed a unity government and war cabinet that collapsed last week.

Their prime minister has been indicated on corruption and bribertmy charges, which are currently on hold for obvious reasons. By most indications his primary motivation in this matter is to stay in power himself, with Israel’s national interests being secondary.

Individual members of IDF leadership have called Israel’s stated objectives “unachievable”.

Israel simultaneously wants to live in peace as a liberal Jewish state without commiting any form of ethnic clensing; and achieve its manifest destiny of establishing a Jewish theocracy across Judea and Samaria.

These are deep questions that get to the core of what Israel is and stands for. Questions that are to be answered by the Israeli constitution in the 50s. That never happened because Israel was never able to agree on a constitution [0].

Right now, Israel is just reacting, without any long term strategic vision. Various factions are trying to use that chaos to advance their own long term vision.

[0] Which led to the big judicial reform constitutional crisis that was a giant political crisis before October.

istanbullu ,

Israel knows what it is doing. They have been very consistent about it for more than 80 years.

They will kill every Palestinian an Palestine, and they will try to kill eveyone in the vicinity who is not jewish. It a country of religious fanatics who use 3000 year old fairy tales to justify their actions.

homura1650 , (edited )

If that were the case then they would have written that into their constitution 70 years ago. And they wouldn’t have assasinated their own prime minister 30 years ago.

Heck, the current minister of national security Ben-Gvir was rejecting from mandatory constriction by the IDF, and convicted in an Israeli court of supporting (Jewish) terrorism after being indicted by an Israeli prosecutor.

These are not things that happen in a country that is unified in its goals.

StaySquared ,

“mowing the lawn” as the Israelis call it.

Btw from what I’ve witnessed, many Israelis dislike Orthodox Jews as much as they dislike Muslims and Christians. Israel is a weird place.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Israel simultaneously wants to live in peace as a liberal Jewish state without committing any form of ethnic cleansing; and achieve its manifest destiny of establishing a Jewish theocracy across Judea and Samaria.

A country at war with itself, much like the US.

Dkarma ,

Have you not read the Bible?

Go read what they originally did to the Canaanites…they’re going to do it again.

bartolomeo ,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

Can you just tell us? That’s a pretty big book.

rc__buggy ,

Ever met a Canaanite? There’s your answer.

StaySquared ,

It definitely cannot defeat Hezbollah. Much less combined with other parties, Hamas, Houthis, whatever is coming from Iraq. As far as I can tell… Israel has already lost. Mainstream media isn’t even providing its viewers/readers of the actual number of IDF casualties. It’s definitely not in the hundreds.

Also, I have a feeling that Middle East nations will begin uniting, abandoning Western powers - their influences.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Wow you went in deep down the rabbit hole there.

Colour_me_triggered ,

Basically the situation in Israel/Palestine is that Hamas has pretty much total iron first control of Gaza, and Israel has a very right wing government. The Israelis have vowed to destroy Hamas entirely, but Hamas is deeply entrenched in every aspect of life in Gaza so what Israel is doing is actually pretty much the only way to rid the region of Hamas, but it comes at an extreme cost and involves a lot of war crimes.

It probably is the only way to get rid of Hamas, but its going to cause so much resentment that peace in Gaza will be completely unattainable within your j or mine. But in short yes, they’re going to kill anyone with even loose ties to Hamas and if you’re a civilian standing too close, oh well.

bartolomeo ,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

Hamas has pretty much total iron first control of Gaza

Don’t you mean Israel has pretty much total iron first control of Gaza? Hamas does not control the borders, the monetary policy, electricity, water (via a racist system of permits being habitually denied), airspace, sea, population registry, international trade, ID cards, or travel to and from Gaza. Israel does. Israel even sells the drilling rights for natural gas off the coast of Gaza.

Colour_me_triggered , (edited )

Gaza has a border with Egypt as well. If Egypt were so inclined, they could open it and allow all sorts of trade and humanitarian relief. They could even set up a refugee camp to protect civilians from harm. They would rather not open the border because they don’t want Hamas to get a toe hold in Egypt.

Also as far as mineral rights go, the reason every partition plan has been shot down in the past is that the Palestinian side will not accept anything less than the entirety of Israel/Palestine and this has been the case going back to the first partition plan proposed by the league of nations in 1947. But as a result of not agreeing to any of the partition plans Palestine is not legally regarded as a country. And therefore doesn’t have mineral rights. Sucky but true.

bartolomeo ,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

Ok next item was “monetary policy”.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Gaza has a border with Egypt as well.

Not anymore. The IDF controls the strip of land between Gaza and Egypt and has secured it against any further aid crossing the border.

Maggoty ,

That’s the problem isn’t it? Hamas was actually running a government. For reference about 13 percent of people in the US work for the government. Now think about their friends, contractors, and families. How high do you think that percentage is? How high does it become after you kill half that 13 percent while they’re just trying to distribute aid and run hospitals?

They absolutely know what they mean they say they’re going to destroy Hamas, but the West pictures Hamas solely as a bunch of fighters, separate from the hospitals, sewage departments, police, and etc.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Hamas has pretty much total iron first control of Gaza

I was under the impression the IDF had a bit of influence there, what with all the tanks and bombers and soldiers scouring every inch of the war-blasted landscape.

bartolomeo ,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

Yes, they usually do it slowly to avoid suspicion but when the situation is convenient they go ahead and take a big bite out of Palestine.

https://suppo.fi/pictrs/image/99eb43eb-a80d-4082-93d7-7ae9f20afcc4.jpeg

That’s how they have been operating, even before the establishment of Israel:

Before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War broke out, the Carmeli Brigade’s 21 Battalion commander had repeatedly damaged the Al-Kabri aqueduct that furnished Acre with water, and when Arab repairs managed to restore water supply, then resorted to pouring flasks of typhoid and dysentery bacteria into the aqueduct, as part of a biological warfare programme. At some time in late April or early May 1948, - Jewish forces had cut the town’s electricity supply responsible for pumping water - a typhoid epidemic broke out. Israeli officials later credited the facility with which they conquered the town in part to the effects of the demoralization induced by the epidemic.[54]

Israel’s Carmeli forces attacked on May 16 and, after an ultimatum was delivered that, unless the inhabitants surrendered, ‘we will destroy you to the last man and utterly,’[55] the town notables signed an instrument of surrender on the night between 17–18 May 1948. 60 bodies were found and about three-quarters of the Arab population of the city (13,510 of 17,395) were displaced.[56]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre,_Israel#1948_Palestine_War

It is evident that that is their modus operandi because now Gaza’s water system is destroyed, and I suspect they will take Gaza just like they took Akka.

Israel taking over Palestine has been the plan since the beginning, as the founding fathers of Israel themselves announced:

Zionist leaders, in particular David Ben-Gurion, viewed the acceptance of the [United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine] as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine.

Then they started.

Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres.

All the theatrics about Israel’s right to defend itself etc. are just cover for the long history of horrible crimes and human rights violations Israel has perpetrated (and continues to perpetrate). There is a reason that people are mad at Israel, and it has nothing to do with being Jewish.

So yea, Israel is going to continue overtaking Palestine, unless they start being held to international law like everyone else. Germany and USA impede on that process, but hopefully the rule of law will triumph because

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I saw an article about them attacking Lebanon now.

Hezbollah, not Lebanon. Please don’t legitimize terrorist groups by considering them to be the government of the country they operate in. Lebanon has elections, please support democracy and it’s not consider Hezbollah as Lebanon’s government, even if those psychopaths have control over a significant portion of the country.

That being said, Nasrallah is probably under significant pressure to do something to help Hamas in some way. Last week he put out some threats against Israel. Israel put out counter threats. In all likelihood that’s where things will stay, neither side wants a war with the other.

The media is always saying a war is imminent. Remember when they were claiming China was going to invade Taiwan any minute? There’s probably some outlets that’re still are saying that sometimes. It gets clicks, views, and ratings.

Who knows they might be right this time (a stopped clock is right twice a day) but it seems doubtful.

So, where will it stop?

In terms of Gaza, Hamas is still holding Israeli hostages. It’s not going to stop as long as Hamas is holding Israelis hostage.

Hamas is likely making a lot of money from the suffering of Palestinians. So they don’t have much incentive to release the hostage and put an end to the conflict.

So it will continue on as the IDF goes house to house trying to find the people that Hamas took on October 7.

Eventually either the IDF will find all of the hostages or Hamas will release them. Then it will end.

gamermanh ,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Eventually either the IDF will find all of the hostages or Hamas will release them. Then it will end.

Lol, good one.

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