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Is someone safe if they report income from illegal means to the IRS?

I have seen multiple times on Lemmy that the IRS wants people to report income from illegal means and that they don’t care to bust someone for it. For example, an illicit drug dealer is expected by the IRS to report their drug sale revenue without having to worry about being caught for drug dealing.

Will the IRS seriously not report illegal activities or individuals that report they earned income through vague illegal means?

If they don’t, do law enforcement agencies skim IRS tax reports to find people that report illegal income to further investigate?

Can IRS tax forms that report illegal income be used against someone in court?

It just seems ridiculous that reporting illegal activity, however undefined, to the federal government would be a safe option.

DeLacue ,

Actually yes. Or well sort of. I believe some tax forms even have boxes for illegal income. This is because there is an odd interaction between two very important laws; you must report all income truthfully for tax purposes and you cannot be compelled to incriminate yourself. Tax law cannot overwrite the 5th amendment. This means they have a choice; either they can prosecute anyone they see as having an illegal income but make it so people writing nothing but “I plead the 5th” on all their tax paperwork is perfectly valid. Or they can choose not to prosecute reported criminal income and retain the ability to go after people who refuse to do their taxes. The only way the tax system can work is if reporting your own illegal income doesn’t legally incriminate you.

The things you write on your taxes cannot be used against you in a court of law unless you are lying in some way. So it is legally safe. Practically perhaps not. Both the police and many of the security agencies love using something known as ‘parallel construction’. It’s where they get some information they shouldn’t have access to or shouldn’t be using and build an investigation that explains how they got that information legitimately so they can use it in court.

Ultraviolet ,

The IRS won’t report you unprompted, but the FBI can get it from them, at which point you’re fucked either way. If you reported it, they have additional evidence for existing charges, if you didn’t, they add tax evasion to the list.

Mediocre_Bard ,

Stolen property. If you steal property, you must report its FMV in your income in the year you steal it, unless in the same year you return it to its rightful owner.

So, if I get it back do I then get a tax credit?

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

This is a conversation to have with a lawyer.

Maeve ,

It was the tax man that brought down Capone.

XeroxCool ,

For tax evasion, not for the illegal nature of his income

Maeve ,

Of course!

wildcardology ,

Here’s a comprehensive list of what you should report as income to the IRS and yes it includes illegal activities and stolen property.

www.irs.gov/publications/p525#en_US_2023_publink1…

RBWells ,

It’s more like if you get caught making money illegally and haven’t paid taxes on it, you are also in trouble for tax fraud on top of your other trouble.

Fedizen ,

you need to launder your money

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

well, not me necessarily. if i was doing some illegal business, i wouldnt be posting a question about it. but, i get the point 🙂👍

Bezzelbob ,
@Bezzelbob@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, hypothetically, according to this show i just watched, the best way to launder would be a cash only (or primary) business such as strip clubs, casinos, etc. Or you can simply create any business and make it cash only like a bakery.

That way its much harder to link because there won’t be any bank records to say otherwise

lud ,

Try car washes

satanmat ,

It is not a safe option.

It is designed as a catch all.

The FBI isn’t going through tax returns looking for Illegal income; rather if you’re suspected of illegal activity, they WILL go through your tax returns, because if you didn’t report your illegal income that is another law you’ve then broken. — See Al Capone

So. It is both a very bad idea, and a good idea to report your illegal income

A better idea is to not do anything illegal; or at least do the illegal thing offshore and hide the income there. Like a good multinational corporation would.

Modern_medicine_isnt ,

What you need to do is report your illegal income in a legal way. Like say you are a life coach, and you advise people.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

If it looks extremely questionable, like you’re a life coach in Alabama and made 380k, it’ll raise a lot of flags.

  • Do you have a paper trail?
  • who pays for life coaching in cash? And 100% of customers?
  • Life coaching in Alabama and you made that much? " Is there also some business presence like a website?

There’s more things to consider. I say that as a person who has to set up my own company to protect myself when I got freelance clients, and complicated the hell out of my taxes.

slumlordthanatos ,

That is a pretty good explanation of money laundering, actually.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Probably why fronts are often restaurants. They would have lots of money going in both ways.

Maeve ,

Or car washes? Night clubs maybe.

kmartburrito ,

There’s always money in the banana stand

jpeps ,

Laser tag is actually the best option.

Maeve ,

Oh?

ArmokGoB ,

I was looking into doing some mutual “consultant work” with a friend to make it look like I had an income. The taxes wouldn’t have made it viable though.

LodeMike ,

Would that not be illegal under the fifth or does the right for congress to collect taxes override that?

FalseMyrmidon ,

You can only plead the 5th while you're in court. Prosectors are free to use all the shady crap you did that they have evidence of in building a case against you though.

LodeMike ,

Hi that is not true.

satanmat ,

Oooh. I like that.

I’d think that courts would say that you can’t claim the fifth, since you self reported the illegal income. And that had you failed to claim it, you’d be evading taxes….

So yes. You COULD claim your 5th amendment rights against self incrimination, but then you’ve violated the 16th where you’ve failed to declare income.

LodeMike ,

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Thank you.

NeptuneOrbit ,

You would need to weigh the cost of

The IRS realizing their is un-reported or misrepresented income

Vs

The IRS reporting legally reported but otherwise suspicious income to the FBI or DEA OR whatever

Tramort ,

Short answer: no

Longer answer: if it were that simple, then money laundering would not be a billion dollar industry.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Always remember: law enforcement is legally allowed to lie to you, you are not legally allowed to lie to them.

Do you really need to know anything else?

thermal_shock ,

it’s also only illegal if you get caught, tree falls in the woods scenario.

makeshiftreaper ,

American tax forms have an “other income” field. That’s where you can report any money you’ve made not covered by the other fields including any ill gotten gains. That section doesn’t require you to list a source, and even if it did nobody expects you to list “$7,800 - meth sales, $32,200 - crack sales, $50,000 - robberies”. You’d just say “Other income - $90,000”

The logic being that if the government never gives you the opportunity to pay taxes on something, then they can’t charge you with tax evasion. Plus there’s a lot of money in crime! If the US can get a piece of that pie they will!

Finally, the IRS is an already underfunded organization and contrary to the popular narrative, is very easy to work with. If you make a genuine good faith effort to pay your taxes and they find issues, an agent will work with you to resolve it. They’ll set up payment plans, defer payments, and more if you’re cooperative. All this is to say that reporting people for crimes besides tax ones and terrorism (the only one they’re legally required to report to outside agencies) just makes their job harder, so they don’t

PhlubbaDubba ,

Not to be flippant but how in sam hill do you uncover crimes of terrorism through tax filings‽

adespoton ,

Terrorists need funding. Doing so is illegal, and can show up in tax filings.

makeshiftreaper ,

I mean if you’re stupid enough you could try to claim a donation to the Taliban as charitable contribution for a deduction. And never underestimate the stupidity of people

Kidplayer_666 ,

I think there’s only a camp on the IRS forms for illegal activity because some random criminal was charged with something and then tax evasion. He successfully argued it couldn’t be tax evasion cause there was no field for it and if he put it elsewhere, it would be fraud

Aatube ,

I'm pretty sure they added the field specifically to catch Al Capone for tax evasion

Anticorp ,

I’ve never heard someone refer to the most successful and famous prohibition era mobster as “some random criminal” before. That criminal was named Al Capone. He controlled all of Chicago, and smuggling routes to many other major US cities. There are several books, TV shows, and movies made after the story of his life.

Delphia ,

Now I’m not American but I did read something about this before but I’m quoting from memory… huge grains of salt to be taken with this.

Essentially I believe you can report it as “other income” not specify a source and refuse to elaborate if questioned or plead the 5th if it goes more serious. So in a way you are protected. They have to PROVE you got the money from committing a crime… “I’m just a lucky gambler”. Im pretty sure Whitey Bulger used to pay 30% more than a winning lottery ticket was worth to people so he could cash the ticket and justify his wealth.

I cant imagine the FBI are trawling tax returns, but if you hit their radar for some reason it will probably flag you as someone to be looked at. Just remember, tax evasion is how they got Al Capone but money laundering is also a crime so which one would you rather fuck with?

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