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The big question touching a nerve this election: "Can my husband find out who I am voting for?"

Can my husband find out who I am voting for in the Presidential Election?"

Olivia Dreizen Howell, the founder of a website to help women get back on their feet after a breakup or divorce, tweeted last week, “We’ve been getting this question a lot,” so she followed up with some facts. As the Washington Post confirmed with experts, the answer is simple: “No; it will be public record that you voted, but not how you filled out your ballot.”

The GOP ticket is led by a sexual predator who a jury found “‘raped’ [journalist E. Jean Carroll] as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape,’” the judge in the case wrote. His running mate, Sen. JD Vance of Ohio, has called for a national abortion ban, wrote the forward to a book that denounced contraception for making pregnancy “seem like an optional and not natural result of having sex,” and repeatedly called women who haven’t given birth “sociopathic” and “childless cat ladies.”

Meanwhile, the Democratic ticket is led by a woman who chose “Freedom” by Beyoncé as her campaign song, and has dispensed with the mealy-mouthed language about abortion rights to declare she stands for “the freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body.” Her running mate, Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota, her running mate, has decried “weird” MAGA Republicans of the “he-man woman haters’ club.”

nondescripthandle ,

The fact that people put up with partners that make them wonder this is not great.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Many marriages are still fundamentally financial arrangements. Living together is cheaper, especially with kids. And when you own half of each other’s stuff (particularly when that stuff is real estate or retirement or cars) decoupling isn’t simple.

Hellinabucket ,

My parents have been married for 35 years cause it’s cheaper than getting divorced.

morphballganon ,

It’s not ideal. Alas, people change, and sometimes you realize you’re stuck in situations where bailing would cause undue hardship to your kids, so you try to make it work.

ganksy ,
@ganksy@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know…if my wife voted for trump we might have impassible dispositions. I’d have to rethink some shit.

blackluster117 ,
@blackluster117@possumpat.io avatar

I’ll never understand women and minorities that are for Trump.

Riven ,
@Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’ve said it a couple times now, conservative women are some of the most brainwashed on the planet. They’re literally voting their rights away. It’s sad cause I wish they had all the resources they need and want but they vote against themselves constantly.

P00ptart ,

Or veterans/soldiers for that matter.

revelrous ,

Older women in my family—with the best of intentions, have pleaded with me to overlook abusive, violent men at home because men just can’t help the way they are and it’s a woman’s job to forget and make peace.

These are people that fundamentally don’t think they have a right to baseline respect in their own homes by the people who supposedly loved them most. They’d need a decade’s worth of therapy just to find their best interests, and then another to act on them.

glimse ,

Emotional/psychological/sometimes physical abuse can do that to someone. Especially after the slow, deliberate dismantling of your social circle that sociopaths like to do. Add to that the stigma of being a single mom…

rand_alpha19 ,

Honestly, I love that my wife is a childless cat lady. It makes everything cheaper and easier. My life is better because I don't have kids, and I'm happy that we made that choice together as rational adults and that we were able to agree that this is the best path for us.

Anyone who chooses to have kids based on their values and circumstances is totally cool, whatever, as long as the kids aren't being abused or neglected, of course. That's your option and I respect it - someone has to have 'em.

But if you don't think people are capable of making the choice not to have kids and that it makes them sociopaths to not have kids, I'm pretty sure you're just an authoritarian who either hates women or has a breeding fetish. Maybe both.

Icalasari ,

Considering the sheer strain on the body pregnancy and birth have, I feel like being a mysoginist would automatically qualify one for a breeding fetish

WoahWoah ,

To be fair, not having children is hard on a woman’s body as well. Increased risks for uterine, ovarian, and breast cancers to name only a few.

Patriarchal medical providers often don’t inform childless women of this and don’t encourage additional and more regular cancer screenings.

They just ignore women’s concerns, sometimes until it’s too late–an all too familiar story for women and the history of medicine.

Wrench ,

Cheaper? My childless catlady wife spends a fortune on our elder cats with health problems.

I have no problem with it, that’s what I knew I was marrying. But they certainly aren’t cheap. The vets know us like we’re regulars.

Sc00ter ,

Still cheaper than if you had to pay for human health problems (in the USA at least)

nkat2112 ,
@nkat2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Imagine how it has come down to this.

I salute the women, minorities, and all folks who have decency and do the right thing during this and all other elections. Let’s all please be sure to vote.

AA5B ,

How is this a big question? Isn’t this common knowledge, one of the first things you learn about voting?

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

learn about voting

these are fox news households were talkin about.. they want less voting, not more

Today ,

Voting is not something we do everyday or for most people even every year. Sometimes Democrat and Republican primaries are held in different rooms or at different locations, So if this is your first time or that’s all you know, it’s a real question.

Delta_V ,

The polling places in some rural municipalities are literally Masonic lodges where they make you announce out loud to all in attendance which primary you want to vote in.

revelrous ,

Wait. There are places where your primary party is not public knowledge when you vote? Fuuuck. (it’s usually a fire hall, not a lodge in my experience.)

aesthelete ,

My parents still vote at a fucking gun club.

BenVimes ,

I’ll fully admit to being completely ignorant about voting the first time I did it. I was politically disengaged for moody teenager reasons, but my parents forced me to go to the polling station anyway. I didn’t care to vote for any of the candidates, but was also worried that I would get in trouble if I spoiled my ballot because I hadn’t paid attention in civics (again, for moody teenager reasons).

Cephalotrocity ,

Nobody can know who you voted for in the booth unless you tell them. Just that you voted. Ballots are unsigned and you place it in the box (supervised, but folded and unexamined) yourself.

blackluster117 ,
@blackluster117@possumpat.io avatar

I mean, mail in ballots are signed. At least, the envelope containing them is. There’s that.

Cephalotrocity ,

An abusive husband could loom over the wife as they filled it in too. Is why I said ‘in the booth’.

TheDemonBuer ,
@TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

My wife is going to vote for Harris/Walz. She’s told me several times. I think I’m gonna vote for them too.

morphballganon ,

Her running mate, Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota, her running mate,

But is he her running mate though?

RozhkiNozhki ,
@RozhkiNozhki@lemmy.world avatar

I guess we’ll never know!

OhStopYellingAtMe ,
@OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

I caught that too, and was going to make a comment saying I caught that too.

TheBigBrother ,

How about my wife?

moon ,

Uhh I think there’s a much bigger issue then elections there

solrize ,

And THIS is why unlimited vote by mail isn’t as great as some people think.

aniki ,

Why?

solrize ,

Because your abusive spouse/preacher/etc. can make you show your ballot, or even mark it for you.

catloaf ,

You can still go vote in person.

solrize ,

a) some states are pure vote by mail. b) if you have the option of voting at home, that exact same abuser can make you exercise it.

I used to oppose VBM because of this. Now I see it as a trade off since there are also benefits that can outweigh the problems. But a person with their eyes open should not pretend that the problems don’t exist.

catloaf ,

Which states? I am not aware of any that are solely vote by mail.

If you wanted to, it would be easy to screw up your ballot request. Throw it out when you get it, mess up the form, forget to sign, offer to take it to the post office and never mail it… Then it’s “oh no it never came, let’s just go vote in person”.

solrize ,

en.wikipedia.org/…/Postal_voting_in_the_United_St…

And, the existence of methods to escape abusers prevents some instances of abuse, but doesn’t eliminate the problem.

MajinBlayze ,

From the article you linked

As of 2022, California mails every registered voter a ballot before the elections, but there is still the option to vote in-person

solrize , (edited )

Yes, that is California. In the exact same paragraph, other states are listed which don’t offer the option. Oregon was the one that came to my mind immediately.

The issue is, having an option to do something the right way is not all that helpful. If there is an option to do it the wrong way, attackers (using “attacker” in the sense of computer security) will do what they can to make you use that option, so they can exploit it. Therefore, security systems should make doing the wrong thing impossible, rather than merely making the right thing possible.

MajinBlayze ,

You’re correct, I should have been more thorough.

Here’s one of the sources cited by that Wikipedia article:

Mostly-Mail Elections (aka Vote-by-Mail, All-Mail or Vote-at-Home Elections) What Are Mostly-Mail Elections? In mostly-mail elections, all registered voters are sent a ballot through the mail. The voter marks the ballot, puts it in a secrecy sleeve or envelope if required, places it in a separate mailing envelope, signs an affidavit on the exterior of the mailing envelope or otherwise provides verification of their identify and then returns the ballot via mail or by dropping it off at an approved return location.

Ballots are mailed out well ahead of Election Day, and thus voters have an “election period,” not just a single day, to vote. Mostly-mail elections can be thought of as absentee voting for everyone. This system is also referred to as “vote-by-mail” or all-mail ballot elections. While “mostly-mail elections” means that every registered voter receives a ballot by mail, this does not preclude in-person voting opportunities on or before Election Day. For example, even though all registered voters in Colorado are mailed a ballot, voters can choose instead to cast a ballot at an in-person vote center during the early voting period or on Election Day.

According to this, “All mail elections” are not different from “mostly mail” elections, and doesn’t preclude the use of in person voting.

Also

systems should make doing the wrong thing impossible

Please no, imo that’s an incredibly fucked line of reasoning

solrize , (edited )

According to this, “All mail elections” are not different from “mostly mail” elections, and doesn’t preclude the use of in person voting.

You can’t vote in person in Oregon. There are no voting booths in the state. It is ALL done by mail, the way I heard it.

“Casting a ballot at a polling place” is not “voting in person”. I sometimes cast my own ballots (California) at polling places. That is, fill in the ballot at home, and drop it off at the polling station instead of mailing it. Voting in person means there is a physical voting booth that you enter, close the curtain, and THEN make your voting choices, in an environment where no one else can see them. Poll workers are supposed to make sure that nobody goes into the booth with you, with some exceptions for disabled people (there are similar exceptions for absentee voting in non-VBM states). It’s against the law to photograph your filled-in ballot inside the booth, though in the phone camera era that has become near impossible to enforce.

Please no, imo that’s an incredibly fucked line of reasoning

It is what you have to do in a secure system. Voting (like retail loss prevention) is of course a security vs convenience trade-off, so you might choose to allow the insecure approach at least some of the time. Again, a person with their eyes open has to be aware of all the issues and reach an informed conclusion. See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downgrade_attack

MajinBlayze ,

Yeah, ok, that sucks. Oregon should still try to make actual polling locations available for people who need (or want) it.

I still don’t think that that’s a reason to abandon vote by mail altogether. The accessibility of it reduces the impact of other voting problems we have in the us overall.

I’m still going to push back hard on the idea that the system has to be 100% perfect. So long as humans are involved, that simply isn’t possible.

There are always going to be tradeoffs.

solrize , (edited )

I’m not currently proposing abandoning VBM, I’m just saying people shouldn’t ignore the issue. A secret ballot is supposed to be one of the foundations of democracy and VBM doesn’t provide it the way a voting booth does. These days though, I would be scared of voting booths (at least where there are long lines) because of COVID. COVID is what kicked California over to near-universal VBM in 2019, after all.

People have studied and analyzed this stuff for centuries and it’s very easy to overlook things or make false assumptions if you just examine the immediate situation, without awareness of its long history. I’m not any kind of expert, but as a security nerd, I’ve seen the topic come up in that context.

MajinBlayze ,

Just going to preface this by saying that I absolutely do support vote by mail, it’s objectively a good thing

However, there’s a problem that should be considered in that it can create opportunities for coerced voting either within a household, or by requiring someone to send a photo of their form.

The former being more of a problem than the later

aniki ,

But you can make that argument about anything…

MajinBlayze ,

Can’t have salads because they could be used for voter coercion?

rand_alpha19 ,

Where should a just and equal society draw the line, though? A person's partner can also use Life360 (or another app) to monitor their whereabouts and prohibit them from getting a job so they can't save up money to escape - does that mean we shouldn't have phones or that tracking apps should be restricted?

In a country like the US, where voting lines can literally be 8 hours long and employers don't have to pay you while you take time during the day to vote, can you guys afford to limit mail-in voting due to extremely specific scenarios in which abuse may occur?

It appears (from my position as someone who has not been in an abusive relationship) like we could more comprehensively tackle this issue with legislation that covers more situations that are directly coercive in nature (like your mail-in ballot being tampered with, regardless of your consent).

At the same time, I am a bit of an idiot, so I do genuinely want to read your perspective about how you think things should be. I am almost certainly not considering every avenue here, given that I lack first-hand experience with abusive relationships and have only really heard stories from friends and family (some of whom do have first- or second-hand experience).

MajinBlayze , (edited )

does that mean we shouldn’t have phones or that tracking apps should be restricted?

It is not my intent to equate “x has problem y” with “x should not exist” very good systems can and do get abused and misused.

There’s a reason I started my comment with

Mail-in voting is objectively a good thing

All I’m saying is that maybe there should be a way for people to go back and override their votes (which admittedly could probably also be abused in some situations), or better yet, just better social safety nets to help people get out of those situations. I’m not suggesting I have all of the answers, just acknowledging that the person at the top of the thread raises a valid, if possibly overstated, concern.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The GOP ticket is led by a sexual predator who a jury found “‘raped’ [journalist E. Jean Carroll

Meanwhile, the Democratic ticket is led by a woman who chose “Freedom” by Beyoncé as her campaign song

Okay, but what about women’s rights to health care? Do they have legislative priorities? Which one of these candidates is willing to stack the court or assign reproductive rights lawyers to the DOJ? Any forthcoming executive actions? Policies? Anything?

aniki ,

MAGAt mad!

AbidanYre ,

Was it really that hard to read the whole sentence?

and has dispensed with the mealy-mouthed language about abortion rights to declare she stands for “the freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body.”

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

declare she stands for “the freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body.”

Okay, so what does this means as actual policy? Is she appointing the head of NARAL her AG or is she just going to put a bumper sticker on Air Force One?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The important thing is you know you won’t be getting a pony.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Would settle for some 1970s civil rights.

MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

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drunkpostdisaster ,

I hate my gender so much.

foggy ,

Depends on who wins.

Phen ,

Last presidential election here in Brazil some churches were asking their people to swap children with other couples so that those children could keep watch to ensure everybody is voting for the right candidate (children are the only ones allowed to join you in the voting booth).

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