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Nomecks , (edited )

He could forgive it all as an “Official Act”

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

Republicans would fight it and SCOTUS won’t let us have nice things.

EmpathicVagrant ,

It would depend on lower courts to decide if it’s official or not

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

It would get appealed to SCOTUS regardless of any lower court decision

BallsandBayonets ,

At least if he tried, he might win the election.

bolexforsoup ,

This is like the 5th attempt at this. Of all the things to accuse him of not trying to accomplish, student loan forgiveness is not one of them

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/66956240-1107-4ed7-b08d-853598e7961b.png

prole ,

For real. As someone who stands to benefit from student loan forgiveness, and has been following this from the start, it’s actually very impressive how much effort this administration has gone through to continue to find other means to do so. He’s forgiven (at least) tens of millions of dollars since the SCOTUS shut down the official program.

Most would have just given up there, but they have been fighting hard for this, and I wish people gave them more credit for this.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

he litrally did try that which started this whole thing…

lightnsfw ,

He didn’t have a supreme court decision saying the president can do whatever they want as long as it’s an official act then.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The president can simply begin killing SCOTUS judges until the court has a liberal majority.

But that opens the door to Republicans doing the same thing, which they would NEVER do otherwise (unless they felt like it).

So the Dems are powerless and the GOP has unlimited power.

lightnsfw ,

Do that, have the new justices reverse the previous decision. Implement corrections to prevent such a thing from happening again. Problem solved.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Oh damn, well 'spose should never try to do anything unless the Republicans agree with it.

pyre ,

“6-3 decision; now students owe double the money directly to SCOTUS. we accept Paypal”

Telodzrum ,

No he couldn’t.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

92% of student loan debt is publicly owned through the Department of Education. This department can - and periodically does - write off loans as bad debt for a variety of reasons. And the policies used to determine when the department writes of the loan are set by the department itself.

However, the funding for new loans is derived in large part from the repayment of old debt. So the DoEd could scratch it’s trillion dollar balance off, but would then have this massive liability to the US Treasury with no way to pay it back (not unlike a bunch of the failed private banks during the 2008 crash). And, of course, no new loans would be forthcoming, forcing borrowers into the private lending market (where rates get into the double digits).

There are legalistic end runs Congress or the Treasury could do to avert this. But Dems blocked debt relief in 2009 and then again in 2017. The GOP is openly hostile to any kind of student debt relief, so they’re no help. And the Treasury is just independent enough to tell DoEd to piss up a rope, while backchanneling aid to Silicon Valley Bank and other failed private lenders.

So, it’s complicated. But also, it’s only not possible because we choose to exclusively bail out the Tech/Auto/Finance/Real Estate sectors and leave Education high and dry.

Telodzrum ,

The comment I replied to was claiming that under the recent SCOTUS decision he could just do it as an official act and no one can stop him. That is what is wrong.

I agree with you, that the Executive has the unilateral and plenary power to forgive and/or waive this debt.

tacosplease ,

Well he would not be liable to criminal prosecution, but that says nothing of whether the loans have to be forgiven upon his declaration.

The immunity just stops him from facing personal legal consequences and only after SCOTUS confirms any crimes were committed during an official act. How do they test for that? They haven’t said and will make up reasons to help/hurt whoever they want on a case by case basis.

Are there laws Biden could break that would force loan forgiveness, and would the current supreme court side with Biden? Seems like no in both cases aside from more Seal Team Six arguments resulting in a new set of SCOTUS judges ruling on such orders. Biden ain’t the guy to make that happen.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

“These 35,000 borrowers approved for forgiveness today are public service workers - teachers, law enforcement officials, and first responders who have dedicated their lives to strengthening their communities and because of the fixes we made to Public Service Loan Program Forgiveness, they will now have more breathing room to support themselves and their families,” President Joe Biden said in a White House statement.

Justice Delayed is Justice Denied

What about the rest of the US? Biden made sure again to take care of police first.

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

What do you mean first? Isn’t this like the fifth round of student loan forgiveness?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And SCOTUS stopped him from forgiving everyone.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

then why keep showing the have nots what they’ll never have

everyone wonders why there is a group of voters in the US who disagrees with both parties well this is it

the people forgotten by both parties always lose especially during elections

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

everyone wonders why there is a group of voters in the US who disagrees with both parties well this is it

No, we just wonder why that group hasn’t learned yet that voting third party or not voting only reduces how many voters the major parties need to win over to stay in power. Running candidates and voting in the major parties primaries is the only way to change the political landscape until we can get election reform to make 3rd party options viable. And we won’t get election reform without taking over the parties from within and from the bottom up (dirty, county, and state offices) because getting ranked choice is done at the state level, not the federal level (without a constitutional amendment).

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but they “voted their conscience” so that’s fine. I always think they might as well just save the time and energy and stay home and not vote if they feel that way.

Also, as W. C. Fields once said, “I never vote for, only against.” That sure is true in 2024. I’m voting against every Republican on the ballot by voting for Democrats. I’ll worry about reforming the Democrats when I can be sure that my queer friends and family aren’t in danger of genocide.

Kadaj21 ,

They’ve been whacking away a smaller groups since the SCOTUS decision. There’s been announcements of those groups over the last couple of years and (by their account) still working on a big one that adheres to the SCOTUS ruling in the case that should not have been, from Texas.

I get emails from the DoE every once in a while that gives updates as well. My wife benefited from one of the rounds, while I (with a much higher balance) have not. If I benefit, it will be a huge lift off my back, but if not I’m not about to deride those who were able to be freed from the debt.

This reminds me of a couple of posts where someone was complaining about how fast food workers were starting to make almost as much as them. One take was to be happy more people are getting paid better, and the other was that someone needs to talk to their management on getting some raises.

I’d hazard for the second one we (the public) need to get people voted in with the objective of being more socially minded rather than those trying to shit on “others”. The MTGs and Gaetzs’ of the political world are not interested in helping others, we need more AOCs and Bernies.

solsangraal ,

reminds me of a couple of posts where someone was complaining about how fast food workers were starting to make almost as much as them.

which reminds me of the people whining about illegal immigrants “dur toork our jerrrrbsss!!!” without a single word about the 1% business owners who consistently hire those immigrants and literally give them a reason to come to the country

Confused_Emus ,

“Can’t help everyone so let’s just help no one instead!”

Klear ,

“Fuck you, I didn’t get mine”, a new twist on an old classic.

jumjummy ,

bOtH sIdEs

All I know is that the Democrats and Biden are trying to push school debt forgiveness to larger groups, and it’s the GOP who consistently blocks it. I didn’t see any GOP pushback for welfare… err PPP “loans” to businesses though

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why can’t you be happy for someone getting some help just because it isn’t you?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I didn’t get my pony, so fuck them!

kebabslob ,

This is the Biden administration making the program do what its supposed to. If that’s cause for celebration, somethings wrong

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We can be happy for the people this helps. Isn’t that enough? Does everything have to be viewed through a “the universe hates us all” lens?

henfredemars ,

Conservative logic detected.

reagansrottencorpse ,

Yeah I’m sure law enforcement officers are really struggling out there…

jprice ,

Plenty of LEOs make shit pay and are held hostage by that low pay like the rest of us. I know it may seem like they’re enemies, but when you break it down to dollars and cents, we’re actually in the same boat.

NocturnalMorning ,

That’s one thing I never understood about their willingness to protect the upper class. They’re in no different of a situation from the rest of us, one missed paycheck away from missing rent or groceries.

paultimate14 ,

It’s the same reason why factory workers don’t join unions or go on strike.

The system is designed to enforce compliance and keep individuals focused on submitting in order to meet their short-term, basic needs. Desperation is the design. When everyone is forced to choose between standing up for themselves or feeding themselves and their families, most people throughout history choose food.

sunzu ,

Bootlickets... It is always the bootlickers who are most effective at enforcing the regime

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There’s an American lie way too many people believe- “I could be like them one day if I play my cards right.”

You will never be like them. You weren’t born one of them.

Confused_Emus ,

The upper class grants them power over their peers in lieu of decent pay.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Yeah, you’re right, they’re in our class of poor. But that doesn’t make them any better, in fact it’s worse. They are the enforcement arm of an inhumane and corrupted government, licensed to kill (but only their own). Their compensation isn’t money, what they get is a measure of the same protection from the law that the rich and powerful have.

Those badges mark them as class traitors for as long as they’re wearing them.

Rentlar ,

Guess who is delaying and denying the loan forgiveness programs Biden had for everyone?

Myxomatosis ,

These shitheels are perfectly fine with the handouts given through Pedo Trump’s PPP loan scam though.

DessertStorms ,
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

teachers, law enforcement officials, and first responders who have dedicated their lives to strengthening their communities

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things does the exact opposite of “strengthening their communities”…

kent_eh ,

First responders also includes firefighters and paramedics.

Don’t let your broad-brush hatred of cops blind you to things of value.

DessertStorms ,
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

teachers, law enforcement officials, and first responders who have dedicated their lives to strengthening their communities

Don’t let your boot licking reflexes blind you to what is actually being said

bolexforsoup ,

Interactions like the one you two are having are why I think we’re going to lose in November

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Is it the nominee that’s wrong?

No it must be the voters.

qarbone ,

How many cops you think are going to college?

DessertStorms ,
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That’s irrelevant, I’m not the one who made the list.

bolexforsoup ,

So, what? If you’re a cop you shouldn’t be allowed to have student loan forgiveness but all other first responders do? Public workers are public workers dude. They’re first responders whether we like it or not.

Telodzrum ,

LEO include jobs like prosecutors, parks rangers, wildlife officers, USPSIS personnel, and a lot more. This isn’t your average precinct cop – they generally don’t have student debt to forgive anyway.

papertowels ,

The fact that teachers, firefighters, and EMTs sandwich cops in that sentence but you chose to zero in and pretend Bidens only helping cops shows you have a major bone to pick and you’re just choosing to be upset, lol.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

teachers, firefighters, and EMTs sandwich cops in that sentence

I know a few teachers and one EMT. None of them have received anything close to a police officer’s salary since Biden took office.

None of them have seen their workforce balloon or received billions of dollars in surplus equipment from the military/national guard, either.

pretend Bidens only helping cops

My city spends something in the neighborhood of a quarter of it’s annual budget on the police. And our veteran Democrat mayor came into office complaining that we don’t have enough cops and they aren’t paid enough.

This isn’t just a Biden issue. The entire party is Blue Lives Matter to the fucking gills.

papertowels , (edited )

I know a few teachers and one EMT. None of them have received anything close to a police officer’s salary since Biden took office.

Just to be clear my claim was just that this action to the student loan forgiveness program benefited teachers cops, firefighters, and EMTs, but they instead chose to ignore everyone else benefiting and just choose to get angry at Biden that cops are included.

As you’ve surmised, what you’re seeing is likely due to local, not federal politics.

As a contrarian anecdote, my democratic local government removed qualified immunity for cops, and established a set of unarmed cops for non-life threatening work like minor traffic violations. I’d say that provides equal weight to your anecdote showing that the entire party is not blue lives matter.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

this action to the student loan forgiveness program benefited teachers cops, firefighters, and EMTs

Cops receive substantially more support and benefit than a marginal amount of student loan forgiveness.

This goes to wages and overtime, housing, medical, retirement… Teachers and EMTs don’t enjoy anything comparable. Only firefighters come close, and their departments are dwarfed by comparison.

papertowels ,

This seems like a tangential point.

My point is that Biden did not prioritize police like the other guy was saying - they’re eligible for loan forgiveness alongside teachers, EMTs, and firefighters, and they were trying to criticize this development by portraying it as prioritizing cops, which isn’t the case.

If anything, as you point out, the other careers make less, therefore loan forgiveness like this proportionally helps teachers, emt, and firefighters MORE, because the flat amount of loan forgiveness is a bigger proportion of their salary. Roll into this the fact that teachers typically have to get a graduate degree, and I’m thinking that this action largely benefits teachers, not cops, who don’t need degrees for their work.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

My point is that Biden did not prioritize police

The Safer America Plan is a $37B budgetary proposal to hire 100,000 new police officers, to provide training to existing officers, and to integrate offices between cities and states for a tighter domestic surveillance network. This goes above the original $10B in the American Rescue Plan for police and associated public safety programs, passed the year earlier.

Show me the equivalent proposal for education, emergency medical, or fire prevention.

If anything, as you point out, the other careers make less, therefore loan forgiveness like this proportionally helps teachers, emt, and firefighters MORE

“We paid you less so you should be thankful for these crumbs” is some powerful neoliberal bullshittery.

papertowels ,

“We paid you less so you should be thankful for these crumbs” is some powerful neoliberal bullshittery.

Sure, sure, spin it how you want, but since this particular act helps groups a, b, and c, getting into a hissy fit and claiming that group b is being put first is blatantly wrong. Do you disagree that this probably helps teachers more than cops?

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