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Biden Threatens to Veto Bill That Would Help Israel but Not Ukraine

President Biden vowed on Monday to veto a House Republican bill that would provide $17.6 billion in aid to Israel, calling it a “cynical political maneuver” intended to hurt the chances of passage for broader legislation that would provide money for Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan and the U.S. border.

House Republicans fiercely oppose the larger bill, which was unveiled by a small, bipartisan group of senators over the weekend. It calls for $118.3 billion in spending and would overhaul some of the nation’s immigration laws to deal with recent surges of migrants at the southern border.

Archive

fne8w2ah ,

That’s a very good thing for an old man to do.

BobGnarley ,

Do it then. I see the lips moving and the empty promises made, so do something about it then old man. Trump was the same way. Just spouting all these great sounding things that the news print and then never doing a god damn thing about any of it. That’s what they do, they say things you want to hear. Then do the opposite

UFODivebomb ,

The bill actually needs to get to his desk first…

LainTrain ,

If you think Trump said anything “great” then you’re part of the problem

lolcatnip ,

To be fair, some of the things he promised were good, like a superior replacement for the ACA. We just tend to forget those promises because they were so obviously bullshit from the moment the words left his mouth.

kttnpunk ,
@kttnpunk@lemmy.world avatar

I hate that the two are becoming more and more conflated. Ukraine is fighting off a invasion; Israel is invading and has driven the people of palestine into radical organization and direct action. These funds should go to aid and peace efforts instead.

CylonBunny ,
@CylonBunny@lemmy.world avatar

Also Gaza is the size of basically just one neighborhood inside of Kiev alone. The scale of two the conflicts are so massively different. Many Americans I’ve discussed this with have no idea how much bigger Ukraine is.

kttnpunk ,
@kttnpunk@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah that’s definately another great point. Ukraine and Palestine are both threatened by colonialist erasure, that’s the parallel I’d like to see drawn- they absolutely have that in common. Would love to see Israel and it’s nationalist government compared to Russia more often- there’s so much misinformation and misdirection in the news nowadays.

dumpsterlid , (edited )

Also Gaza is NOT a war while Ukraine is, Gaza is a genocide.

In Ukraine organized military forces clash over territory with both sides fielding artillery, tanks, aircraft and other sophisticated military systems. Russia is seeking to control Ukraine and annex most of it, but it literally has to roll tanks all the way through contested territory to do this.

Israel already controls and surrounds all of Gaza, it controls all administrative and infrastructural aspects of Gaza so much so that Israel was able to build a wall straight through the heart of Gaza just to fuck with Palestinians. There is no ground war in Gaza with infantry divisions fighting over territory, there is just Israel repeatedly dropping an absolutely absurd amount of bombs (dropping in several weeks on the tiny footprint of Gaza what the bomb happy US only managed to drop in a year in the Iraq War) on a civilian population that has no means to leave even if they wanted to.

You don’t need to fight a war when you can just shut the water, lights and internet off to an entire city, you can shutter the hospitals with a lift of a finger. If there was a war, it was over long ago and what people call a “war” now is mere symbolic violent resistance meant to attract the attention of someone powerful enough to help (or stop). The thing that should make every one of us want to scream is the only problems the Israeli government sees with cut off water and let ‘em starve solution is that 1. it doesn’t kill Palestinians fast enough to sweep under the rug out of international scrutiny and 2. it doesn’t magically bulldoze the houses of the Palestinians killed and erased like a bomb does all in one go.

Hamas is not a terrorist organization because it chose to be one instead of a traditional army, it is a terrorist organization because a war with large armies is simply impossible for Hamas to even begin to fight against the combined military industrial complex of the U.S. and Israel. I say “begin” specifically because in order to fight a war with a military you have to first bring together all your soldiers and the minute Hamas did that Israel would carpet bomb the map square of that gathering place out of existence. War over before it even started.

I am not defending Hamas (I am so tired of saying this, of course they are awful) but simply pointing out Israel’s main justification for their genocide is that Hamas chooses to be a terrorist organization because they are evil and not because it is an organization of people who feel armed resistance is necessary (a sentiment Israeli’s should understand) and terrorism is literally the only armed resistance option on the table. It’s not like Hamas makes tunnels because they love digging and just don’t feel like fielding columns upon columns of 120mm main battle tanks they have in storage…

What is happening in Gaza is collective punishment for the actions of a few, it is genocide, it is horrific slaughter and land theft, it is a disgusting rightwing fantasy of violence but It is NOT a war that makes the IDF look way too honorable here. Gaza is what happens after a war ends and one side has complete power over the other. It is closer to soldiers raping and pillaging a civilian population en masse in the wake of an invasion than a war.

andxz ,

Well said.

CptEnder ,

The more I think about it, we should just airstrike all the Christian, Muslim, and Jewish holy sites in Israel. There now there’s no reason to fight over your space wizards. Problem solved.

kaffiene ,

How does that end the occupation of Palestine?

LainTrain ,

It doesn’t this mfer is still living in 2015

PopcornTin ,

Invasion? That some racist talk right there. Give them a notice to appear in court in the next five years and leave them alone.

Alph4d0g ,

Imagine if we redirected that 17.6 billion to programs that would benefit actual breathing people in the US in actual need?

GilgameshCatBeard ,

Outrage should be reserved until it’s known what’s on the bill. It was drawn up by conservatives- I’d wager its purpose is to disenfranchise far left voters.

lolcatnip ,

Anything drawn up by conservatives will be worthy of outrage. They’re not going to magically stop being monsters.

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

It’ll also be pork barreled up the ying yang.

And America wonders why it’s debt is so high. :(

TheOriginalGregToo ,

Soooo exactly like the Inflation Reduction Act?

PopcornTin ,

That’s what the Schumer’s bill already was, which I guess Biden wants them to pass instead of separate single-issue bills. At least with separate bills, you could reject one or two and save billions.

EatATaco ,

This is a straight up admission of being close minded. don’t get me wrong, one should be highly suspicious for the reason you state, but rejecting something you don’t even know about yet is the exact opposite of being a critical thinker.

BigBananaDealer ,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

they are just the opposite of conservatives who reject everything liberal or democrat

uienia ,

Republicans: bigoted slurs

Non-Republicans: Republicans are bigots.

You: Both sides are equally bad.

EatATaco ,

The poster didn’t say both sides are equally bad, they said the close minded people who reject everything because it comes from a Democrat are exactly the same as the close minded people who reject everything from Republicans. And they are absolutely right.

Honytawk ,

True, they just forgot to mention there are more conservatives than liberals like that

EatATaco ,

Do you have anything to back that up or is it simply that you want it to be true, so you’ll assume it’s true?

LainTrain ,

Feel free to Google it anytime Putin-bot

EatATaco ,

Putin bot, chat GPT. You really do have all of the childhood empty insults down. You should be proud of your intellectual abilities, they are truly awe inspiring. lol

LainTrain ,

Thank you I’m glad you were able to understand ☺️

BigBananaDealer ,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

um. i think you replied to the wrong person. i have no clue what this has to do with my comment

LainTrain ,

That’s because you’re an idiot. He’s bang on.

BigBananaDealer ,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

lol right to insults. wow.

my original comment 1) didnt mention republicans 2) didnt mention bigoted words and 3) did not compare “both sides as equally bad”

how exactly am i an idiot?

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

“Yes, the boy has cried wolf every day for the past decade. But it’s pretty close minded to think there probably isn’t a wolf this time.”

EatATaco ,

As I said in the other post, this is literally the same argument I hear from climate change deniers.

When were really hate a group of people, usually the reason is that we are much more like them than we are willing to admit.

postmateDumbass ,

We don’t so much hate them as we are tired of the same old predictable pattern of behavior.

cystic ,

I would like to interject here just to say that I do indeed hate them.

EatATaco ,

Lol the top level comment, to which I am responding, literally calls them monsters.

LainTrain ,

They are, as historically demonstrated time and time again in a consistent pattern up until today

uienia ,

Being gullible is also the exact opposite of being a critical thinker. And it is being very gullible to somehow still let the Republicans benefit from your doubt, despite knowing exactly why they are why they are and why they have been doing what they have been doing for decades now. All the while knowing that the factors which makes them that way has only increased the last couple of years.

But then again you are not really being gullible, are you, you are just being disingenous.

EatATaco ,

This is the same type of argument I come across when debating against COVID disinformation and climate change: politicians and/or scientists were wrong/exaggerated some things in the past, so that gives me the right to reject the facts now.

When were really hate a group of people, usually the reason is that we are much more like them than we are willing to admit.

postmateDumbass ,

Ive given the GOP rhetoric plenty of tine to simmer. I was born and raised in it.

It’s bullshit. It’s a pyramid scheme cult.

No matter what the words say, the agenda is unchanged.

EatATaco ,

Okay you reject their worldview. What does this have to do with my point?

postmateDumbass ,

You claimed the reason we don’t trust them now is hate, hate that blinds us.

My point is the reason we don’t trust them is historical evidence.

EatATaco ,

You claimed the reason we don’t trust them now is hate, hate that blinds us.

No I didn’t. I said that when we hate a group of people it’s usually because we are more like them then we are willing to admit.

LainTrain ,

Was this written by ChatGPT?

EatATaco ,

Can’t debate the point, attack the character. lol

LainTrain ,

Your point was already debunked, I’m just dogpiling

EatATaco ,

I’m just dogpiling

In the other post you are telling me I’m just parroting. . .and here you’re talking about how you’re just following the herd around. Hilarious. You think you see yourself in me, but it’s really just yourself you hate.

LainTrain ,

The scale is completely different though. You are committing a false equivalency fallacy.

EatATaco , (edited )

The scale is inconsequential when it comes to ignoring facts because you believe someone lied to you in the past. The fact that this needs to be explained is kind of embarrassing.

LainTrain ,

Scale, context and nuance is absolutely everything, thinking in absolutist black and white terms makes you a child that just parrots without an ounce of critical thought, assuming that statements that are applicable to some situations are right for other situations, this is self-evident to everyone here except you, hence you’re getting clowned on.

Hope that explains it!

Mnemnosyne ,

It’s completely fair to reject anything they propose until it is clearly shown not to be bad. It is also fair not to examine everything in great detail and assume it will be bad until shown otherwise, because the track record is so strong.

It doesn’t mean being unwilling to listen to evidence, but it does mean not being willing to put in the effort to check it over without a strong reason to think that it might actually be different this time. Because they can and will put out a torrential deluge of crap just to exhaust people’s ability to critically analyze all of it.

EatATaco ,

This is moving the goal posts. The top level comment says it will be bad, now you are saying that it might not be bad and we should be open to it being good…but that it’s just hard to give everything full critical analysis because there is so much.

We are not all that far off from each other, I just think it’s better to hold no opinion in those situations. It’s okay to not have an opinion on something while also being highly suspicious of it.

But I think you may agree with me that claiming it will be bad is close minded.

Thorny_Insight ,

If I absolutely have to pick a side on this dumpsterfire of a conflict then I’d choose Israel but I still don’t quite understand what they need military aid for when they’re already the bigger and more powerful military of the two. Is this so that they can blow up individual terrorists with a million dollar smart bombs so that they don’t need to put their own men at risk? This just seems stupid but then again I’m no military expert either so who cares what I think.

beardown ,

Try these then, the first video is short. Finkelstein is an expert on this issue, and his family was exterminated in the holocaust, except for his parents

youtu.be/v-GK1lKmexE

youtu.be/eF3EE3g8COI

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Why would you choose Israel? They have already killed more civilians than Hamas has militants and has given no sign of slowing down, they have dropped over 20000 bombs, they aren’t trying to kill individual terrorists. Even people in Israel are turning against the IDF and Netenyahu.

Thorny_Insight ,

Because I agree with why they’re attacking HAMAS, just not on how they’re doing it.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Why do you think Israel was attacked to begin with? Do you agree with Israel’s reason for attacking but not Palestine’s? I would say the same but in regards to the attack on Israel.

Thorny_Insight ,

Even if I grant that they had a legitimate reason to attack Israel, that still doesn’t change the fact that it was a terrorist attack directed mostly at the civilian population. That makes you a perfectly legitimate target for retaliation in my eyes.

And before you say Israel is attacking the civilian population too and in greater numbers; I know, that’s why I said I don’t agree with how they’re doing it.

Honytawk ,

Yeah well

Terrorism > genocide.

Thorny_Insight ,

Both sides can be bad at the same time. Just because you think Israel is worse it still doesn’t make HAMAS saints. This is binary thinking and world doesn’t work that way. Things are not black and white.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I haven’t seen anyone argue that the militants that attacked Israel aren’t legitimate targets in a war like this. I have doubts about the reports that they specifically targeted civilians more than military points or that there were orders to attack civilians. Even Israeli news has reported that many civilians killed on Oct. 7th were most likely killed by IDF.

tostos ,

Biden: “I’m Zionist”

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

This doofus already did 2 emergency arms sales to Israel, he just wants his other foreign funding on top of funding Israel.

Nothing special here besides republicans doing republican things.

GroundedGator ,

And I think the house Republicans know and accept this. They know that Israel will continue to get funded and they will campaign that Dems and Biden blocked aide to Israel.

No one but Republicans win. Heads I won, tails you lose.

It may give Biden some cred with the pro Ukraine voters.

mihies ,

Yep, genocide doesn't come cheap.

pan_troglodytes ,

hmm… ok!

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Love how Taiwan is thrown in there for no fucking reason 🙄

muntedcrocodile ,
@muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world avatar

He said he would an that dickhead speaker still hasnt sheduled a vote on ukranian aid

grue ,

that dickhead speaker

“Dickhead” is such a vast understatement it almost feels more like downplaying.

“That traitorous, christofascist, Russian shill speaker” better conveys the depths of the motherfucker’s depravity.

muntedcrocodile ,
@muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world avatar

Your 100% right we really should send him to the front lines and tell him to advanve or get shot taste of his own i guess. And if we cant do that then i suppose executing him for treason would suffice.

Feathercrown ,

The president hears the people no longer agree with our stance on Israel

The president changes his policies to reflect the will of the people

This is how it’s supposed to work!

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

It’s unfortunate that I have run into people that don’t believe that. I once got called a flipflopper because I commented one stance based on inaccurate information I had, and was given new accurate information which changed my mind.

People be treating reality like a high school debate club and just sticking with a position because that’s what they choose at the beginning. You can change your mind. Especially if it’s based on new information you didn’t have before.

Chocrates ,

Right? I knew that Gaza was bad before this conflict but I didn’t have any real information. I then went and educated myself and I have a pretty firm opinion on the subject now which is different than it used to be.

Randelung ,

Highschool debate club has failed if that’s what people compare actual debate to. It’s necessary to take a firm stand in a discussion, even being devil’s advocate is fine, as long as it happens objectively.

But I guess HS debates just end after three rounds and then no retrospective happens about what stance (not WHO) was right and why.

TL;DR HS debates were supposed to be better than this.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

To be fair: My high school fuckin’ sucked.

But also: judged competitions don’t usually see one side agree with the other after hearing their side… That seems like a sure fire way to lose the competition.

Randelung ,

Yeah during the debate you defend your position, but the retrospective after is lost. The thing that would connect the whole simulation to reality.

tryptaminev ,

Thats not what is happening though is it?

The republicans want to kill funding for Ukraine, humantiarian aid and better protection of jewish and muslim places of worship against US domestic terrorism.

So they propose a “fund Israel only” bill, that Biden has to veto on and they can cry out against. He still wants the IDF to receive that money though, so they can continue destroying what is left of Gaza and kill and drive out even more people.

GilgameshCatBeard ,

It’s hilarious that you think that’s actually what he wants.

tryptaminev ,

Then what do you think he wants?

GilgameshCatBeard ,

You realize there are no “good guys” in that war, right? There’s a grey area and a shit ton of nuance to it all. Not to mention a shit ton of history. Only a child sees this as a “which side should I chose be on” situation, and then goes to the intern to beat people over the head with their choice.

For the record, when I was much younger, I was an idealist also. And like the kids today, I also had no idea what I was taking about.

tryptaminev ,

Nowhere did i say that there is a “good guy”.

Israel can only continue to subjugate the Palestinians in Gaza to these inhumane conditions, if they receive continued support from the US. All public calls for moderation have been ignored or renounced, yet the US continues to increase its military aid to Israel. Israel is not only facing a case of genocide, where the highest court of the world deemed it “plausible” that Israel is committing genocide and also demanded specific actions and omissions to prevent genocide by Israel. High ranking Israeli officials, including the President, the Prime Minister, the minister of Defence and high ranking army officials have been explicitly called out by the ICJ for a rhetoric that is indicative of genocidal intent.

If a child is told by its parents not to set things on fire, but at the same time is given another lighter and gasoline, it is clear that the parents do want the child to continue. Even more so as many other parents have told the child to stop and the parents defended their child against those people.

The US has all the means to stop Israel. Instead they are enabling Israel even further. If you want nuance, don’t just look at the words. Look at the actions taken.

beardown ,

You’re refusing to answer the question:

What does Biden specifically want re: Gaza?

GilgameshCatBeard ,

I’m not qualified to know- which is why I don’t make assumptions. I cannot begin to understand politics at that level and what happens behind closed doors. And neither do you. I at least know that he doesn’t want genocide.

But don’t let this stop you from creating a narrative.

beardown ,

So your point is that no one should criticize the United State despite the truth being ambiguous. Makes sense.

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with why the International Court Justice ruled that Israel was plausibly committing a genocide. Perhaps that would clear some things up for you

GilgameshCatBeard ,

ROFL… that’s not my point at all, and the fact that this is what you’re taking from it clearly indicates that you’re far too ignorant for this discussion.

beardown ,

Your point is that only highly informed elites may criticize the United States. Which is incredibly snobbish and is a tactic to terminate all dissent.

GilgameshCatBeard ,

Strike two. You got one more swing. Make it count.

beardown ,

Your initial point was that no one here should criticize the United States/Biden because we aren’t in those meetings. Now your point is that anyone who pushes back against you will be blocked. I’m not sure what you’re looking for

GilgameshCatBeard ,

That’s strike three.

My initial point is that NEITHER of us definitely know what’s going on enough to accurately say what Biden is thinking, or what reasons he has to do what he’s doing. That’s it. You’re calling shit like you’re Biden’s biographer.

You’re not.

And when did I say I was going to block you? You clearly like to assume you know shit about people and things that you clearly know nothing about. Maybe try to stop doing that moving forward.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m sick of hearing people say “there are no good guys” in this war, what does that even mean to you?

GilgameshCatBeard ,

It means neither side is innocent. It’s pretty self-evident.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

But it’s not just Hamas being slaughtered, all of Palestine is targeted by the IDF. There are other groups besides Hamas fighting. And there is one side who is stealing land and killing record numbers of children and aid workers, and has been for decades.

GilgameshCatBeard ,

Cool, so that’s one side of it- you’re forgetting to include the killing done by the other side.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m not forgetting that, I pointed out that multiple groups have been attacking Israel. Yes, resistance fighters have used terrorism against Israel and bombed civilians, I’m not condoning these actions, but the people fighting for freedom from Israel don’t have many resources at their disposable. Struggles against Apartheid and Nazi occupied France for example also resulted in civilian deaths.

lolcatnip ,

What are you quoting from?

Feathercrown ,

Nothing, it’s an alternate usage like greentext from 4chan to show a summarized sequence of events that I’m responding to.

Xariphon ,

How about we switch that around...

Drusas ,

Sounds like a win all around if he does. Israel does not need the help.

tryptaminev ,

He still wants to find Israel, just as a part of a larger bill.

Both parties want Israel to continue. Just that the republicans want Putin to win the war in Ukraine.

randon31415 ,

I think Israel is somewhere in the middle east, but don’t tell Biden that.

tryptaminev ,

findy, fendy, fundy

-Julius Caesar

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