It's wild to me that after the last six years or so, people are still happy to conclude this must be a troll or fake. Like damn, what is it going to take to convince you that racists are fucking brazen?
I’d say it’s also that a lot of folks are very invested in making other people second guess if something like this is actually real or if it’s just Black folks with ulterior motives. It makes it easier for more people to dismiss overt racism when it happens.
because it’s from a screenshot on the link from the flyer. They are quoting that. t.me/s/whitetricitiesparentsandtots but now that quote has been taken down and linking to a white supremacist website unabashedly. Do you think this is still a legit flyer of someone trying to start a whites only daycare, or someone just trolling?
Did you read the “article”? There was no research or investigation. It was literally describing a social media post with no investigation to corroborate anything. This is the news community. There should be quality standards for news posts. This is a pretty clear low effort “article” to capitalize a upward trending controversial social media post to grab clicks and ad views.
Reports that don’t corroborate the social media with verification from other interviews, other social media with similar reporting, etc. are pretty bad. This thread has a pretty good break down of why it seems pretty sus that this is a legit flyer: lemmy.world/comment/376517
What does that even mean. I’m not sure why recognizing local news click bait meant to trigger my liberal sensibilities outs me as a conservative somehow. This headline and post isn’t meant to trigger conservative outrage, it’s liberal outrage. (Also the OP tagline says the news is about sparking outrage.)
Like damn, what is it going to take to convince you that racists are fucking brazen?
Call me crazy but I don’t typically associate racist trash mom and tot groups with the sort of people who make very clean and legible flyers with fully formed clear english and even properly used apostrophes, as well as a QR code (centered too!), a telegram group, and a proton email
The deeper you look into all the context surrounding the flyer, the faker and faker it looks.
It’s amazing how well the average white supremacist can blend into society.
Please stop being so closedminded. These people want you to think since they aren’t toothless rednecks in a Maga hat that they can’t possibly be racist. This shit comes in a sizes and flavours.
Sorry but I go with Occam’s Razor on this one. The possibility of some racist going through all the necessary motions to make this scenario occur are incredibly specific and incredibly unlikely.
The facts don’t add up to this being real. It’s a narrative that just doesn’t make sense and seems so deeply unlikely that I can’t even imagine it happening. There’s way way too many coincidences and holes and unlikely occurrences.
Whereas the scenario of “a person wanted their social media to get a huge boost, so they made a fake flyer, a fake telegram, a fake email all within a couple hours, took a picture of it, made a post on their social media, and then shared those posts minutes later with the local news to gain a bunch of traction”, is way more common and doesn’t have any holes in it.
Of the possibilities, the latter is astronomically more likely and requires no mental gymnastics to arrive at, so I assume it’s the case. It’s that simple.
And there’s not really any mental gymnastics involved in “racists exist.”
That is not what the question is, nor the conclusion.
The question is, “Who put this flyer up?”
And of the answers:
Option 1: Genuine Racist
They possessed the capacity to produce this fairly well made flyer, despite the fact the venn diagram of “person who can make a flyer of this quality” and “person who is openly racist” is a very thin sliver (unlikely occurrence #1)
They did not have any existing members of an “in group”, and made the telegram “pre-emptively” (extremely uncommon, typically people of the group precede the creation of a chat room to chat in, unlikely occurrence #2)
They setup a proton email, an extremely uncommon tool typically only used by extremely tech savvy individuals, but didnt put in the extra work to make it have a real account name which is extremely uncommon (unlikely occurrence #3)
They telegram group has a photo of the exact same paper that was “discovered” shortly after, but on a table, and the photo was set only a short period of time before it was “discovered” and posted to social media. Which means the individual took the photo, set the picture of the telegram group, went outside to put the flyer up, and in under 1-2 hours it was already posted up to social media and shared with the news. (unlikely occurrence #4)
The group who discovered and shared this picture happened to be discovered by the owner of a social media group “BlackVancouver” who happens to also be a group specifically focused on spreading awareness about racist acts in the area. They were exactly in the right place at the right time to find this picture literally moments after it was put up? (extremely unlikely occurrence #5)
Despite this, no other pictures at all of these flyers have surfaced anywhere else, which seems to mean that one single flyer was posted and was taken down as soon as it was found. No one else has any info on this flyer except the couple pictures shared by BlackVancouver. It’s very unlikely that a person who made flyers for their group would put all that effort into making the flyer and proceed to post up literally just one of them. (unlikely occurrence #6)
The telegram group has had no members added, and no posts made after the sharing of the flyer with the news outlet (unlikely occurrence #7)
Option 2: Someone fostering fake outrage to boost their social media
A person who manages a social media account is not that unlikely to possess the skills to make a fairly decent looking flyer
If they were making a fake telegram to add “face value” authenticity to their flyer, the lack of any members of the telegram group is not unexpected
A proton email would be not unheard of to be utilized by someone looking to setup a quick and dirty fake email to add further authenticity to their flyer
Wanting to quickly slap together the telegram group in as low effort as possible while still trying to create the appearance of being real at face value, using the flyer itself as the picture of their fake telegram group is a quick and dirty solution, and it would make sense that they would have taken the picture for it shortly before going outside to put the flyer up
The group discovering the flyer being the one who made it is self explanatory at this point, as that is the goal, no longer a coincidence but by design
The individual would not want to get in trouble, so they would have only made a single fake flyer, tacked it up, snapped a picture, then took it down asap, explaining why there aren’t any other photos that have surfaced of the flyer and why it seems like only a single flyer ever got posted up.
The individual, once satisfied that everything looks legit and enough outrage has generated, locked the telegram group and abandoned it, as it has now served its purpose.
Note how the first option requires enormous mental gymnastics to make sense, whereas the latter largely fits within its own context and doesnt require any stretching to conclude. All the “unlikely coincidences” in scenario 1 become expected results in scenario 2.
Thus… Occam’s Razor concludes that situation 2 is way way more likely, and is the one to default to.
If you can come up with an even more likely scenario than situation 2 though, by all means, lets hear it. But I don’t see anyway this narrative fits some random racist mom and tot group founder without having to make numerous extremely unlikely assumptions.
It’s jk for its not actually investigation or at least not on ground, but it’s at the very least more journalism than the article, you’re right about that. I just don’t know the tag for half joking
The City of Port Coquitlam also commented to say, “Thank you for bringing [the sign] to our attention earlier. Bylaw officers are out taking them down.”
They also apparently put the fakeflyer out there.
While the Telegram group is private, messages from the chat can be previewed. In the previewed messages, the administrator says they are “encouraged by the response” the group has gotten […]
And populated the telegram channel with fake messages.
I’m not sure how you wiekd Occam’s razor but it’s becoming a pretty elaborate con for just some internet clout.
Not sure what you are talking about. The City itself was told that the flyer existed, they dont have to be “in on it” to respond like that.
If you post up a fake flyer, the city will take it down and respond the way you said. It’s not that complicated.
And populated the telegram channel with fake messages.
Indeed, theres a whopping two whole messages on the telegram, posted minutes apart, and both of them were posted about an hour before the post of the flyer was put up on instagram/twitter, and no further messages have been posted to the channel since then, no members added, etc. It appears to be effectively abandoned minutes after it was made.
It literally only has those 2 messages and thats it, and they come out to a grand total of like, 4 lines of text total.
Do you think that sounds like a totally legit telegram account chat group? Cuz that sure sounds fake as fuck to me lol
Maybe some investigation Journalism that actually checks if this is real, or not? Because yes, a lot of these posts have turned out to be bullshit from trolls
I worked for a few spray-foam insulation companies in my early 20’s. I’m just waiting to hear the same thing from spray foam. Half the guys I worked with didn’t wear masks most of the time and were just covered in foam all day breathing in the off gassing of fire retardents and blowing agents and other nasty chemicals. I quit because I saw the writing on the wall and my boss hated me for quitting before training my replacement. I told him it wasn’t worth my health.
The dumbest thing is the mentality between workers sometimes. “Don’t be a pussy” some will say when you ask for masks/goggles/ear plugs/etc but none of them will be there when you eventually get injured or sick. None of them will congratulate you, hand you a tough-guy-trophy and pay your medical bills + pension.
Nah he was my boss and I was a decent sprayer, and a very very good helper. So to make fun of me wouldn’t have worked well for him. He understood my concerns. My other coworkers were not like that though, like someone in a comment above me said. They’d all crack jokes at me because I took safety very seriously. I would like to see how they are all doing now and I wonder about their health sometimes. I didn’t keep in touch with any of them though and live far away now.
The EPA/OSHA cut hexavalent chromium exposure limits by 100. Aircraft workers have been spraying, painting and airbrushing that shit for fucking ever. It’s uniquely good at its task (anti-corrosion) so there’s no making it go away any time soon.
How is that a creep vibe? What does that even mean? Protecting workers is creepy?
They pointed out that it’s shitty to blame the victims of a system that abuses its workers and won’t provide them the proper safety. I better attack that as being a “Dwight Shrute-esque” dick (really???). What the fuck. You’re the fucking jerk.
No, respirator is a type of mask, thats not what I was referring to.
The article mentions multiple times that masks are just one piece of the puzzle, and goes into a fair bit of detail about how its way more than that, that is needed.
Read the article, it’s gone over in detail multiple times.
Workplace safety regulators have recommended a suite of measures including water spraying systems, ventilation and vacuum systems to clear dust, in addition to protective respirators for workers — ones covering the entire face if silica levels in the air are high.
What’s that? A sign that can be placed by literally anyone? And it’s obscenely racist? Must be real. Why wouldn’t somebody proudly advertise a thing people would be angry about in a public place.
So there’s lots of brazen white supremacists in Canada? You must have a ton of similarly-brazen examples then?\
This is noteworthy enough that I’ve seen it more than once already, on Reddit and here, in a world news community. That suggests that this is pretty frickin rare, which kinda undermines your argument.
It really kind of doesn’t matter. Joke or serious, it could have an oppressive effect on minorities wanting to use the park. It sows doubt and mistrust whether it’s one person’s idea of a joke or serious idea.
I have had countertops put in two different times. The first time the crew had a water saw and masks. The second time I was horrified to see the guys cutting the stuff raw without even a paper mask on.
I think that’s the question. If trolling, was it someone on the right trying to spout some vitriol to make people of color of leftists uncomfortable? Or was it someone on the left trying to stir up outrage among like minded people.
Considering the context the most likely and simplest scenario is just the instagram/twitter account(s) that posted it are trying to farm more subscriptions/likes/etc, to gain following.
Unlikely, they already got the engagement they wanted and you can literally see everyone its been posted the ratio of “oh my god racism aaah” responses vastly overwhelm the small handful of folks going “yo this looks fake as fuck lol”
I meant backfire for people in real life through some people feeling less safe about possible existence of racists and some racists feeling more secure about their thoughts but maybe the clout seekers don’t care about that at all in which case it’s not backfire I guess
There are a lot of workers in different industries that are at risk of silicosis and don’t know it. The mentality of “it’s just dust, don’t be afraid to get a little dirty” will end up killing people.
You’re absolutely right, all this old timer “Kids these days are so soft…” B. S. When in reality the young just don’t wanna die or be maimed at 30.
Take care of your bodies, kids, it’s the only one you get. Don’t let corporations run you into the ground and then throw you in the trash. We need to demand better working conditions from our bosses and our elected officials.
“The only one looking out for #1 is you.” - My section chief when I was in the Army.
I’ll never forget it and I pass it on every chance I get. I’ve gone as far as shaming some people into wearing knee braces and the like because “what the fuck are you doing, you’re gonna fuck it up even worse”
Keep up the good work, it might not always work, but the times that it does are priceless.
There are a decent amount of teenagers where I work and I try to pass that idea on to as many as I can. Adults too, of course, but it’s really satisfying to be able to catch people while they’re young and still have loads of time to protect themselves… From a lot of things.
When running a fireworks show, safety is by far the most important part of the job.
In the safety briefing before we start working in the morning, the one before we load shells, AND the one before we fire the show we remind them that the person most responsible for their safety is themselves. If they do not feel safe about something, anything, do not do it and come to me. I will never shame someone for wearing PPE. I will always be inspired from whatever device or tool they come up with to make the job safer or more comfortable.
Everything can wait while we sort out safety issues.
This reminded me of a guy I knew. He was the safety guy for large events such as concerts or conventions, lots of electrical work and heavy loads, hoisting and such. Said this stuff to others, but also tried to put it all on himself, sort of like you, “always come to me.” Dude made sure he was there for every important or possibly dangerous step, sometimes not very busy but then when a big event was coming up, very very busy for a few weeks. Fell asleep at the wheel. Gotta delegate.
I try to point out to my coworkers that part of what they’re trading for wages is wear and tear on their bodies. Using provided PPE is like getting a raise because you’re giving the company less.
My boss has emphysema and asthma, but refuses to wear a mask when doing demolition because “it makes it too hard to breath.” I don’t understand this mentality.
I don’t know an outdoor construction worker that doesn’t have some sort of pulmonary disease. Chronic rhinitis at best, mostly COPD, many with also with sleep apnea. And those that smoke on dusty job sites will all die young.
Well I think the best legislation is just heavy background checks and checkups on gun owners. Yes, you could introduce laws like this where people can just get around it or actually go deep down the the fundamental issue, which is why these mass shooters are mass shooters. Background checks and psychiatric tests are the way to go. Guns shouldn’t and can’t be illegal, make sure gun owning individuals are sound of mind enough to own them.
The article is an interview with two professors, Jillian Peterson and James Densley, who have conducted a comprehensive study on mass shooters in the US. They have created a database of every mass shooter since 1966 and interviewed some of them, as well as their families and friends. They have also talked to people who planned a mass shooting but changed their mind.
The main findings of their research are:
Mass shooters share four common traits: childhood trauma, social isolation, suicidal thoughts and access to firearms.
Mass shooters often have a crisis point that triggers their violent behavior, such as a breakup, a job loss or a humiliation.
Mass shooters are not born evil or mentally ill, but rather they are shaped by their life experiences and circumstances.
Mass shooters can be prevented if they are identified and treated early, before they reach the point of no return.
The article also discusses the challenges and implications of their research, such as:
The need for more funding and political will to address the root causes of mass shootings, such as mental health, social support and gun control.
The importance of changing the narrative and language around mass shooters, such as avoiding terms like “monster” or “lone wolf” that dehumanize them and obscure their motives.
The role of the media and the public in reducing the glorification and copycat effect of mass shootings, such as not naming the shooter or showing their manifesto.
The potential for using their database and methodology to study other forms of violence, such as domestic terrorism or hate crimes.
Mass shooters are the reason cited for most gun laws though. Detachable magazines, full-auto, short-barreled weapons, etc.
The issue is one party hates social programs but loves guns, and the other party hates guns specifically because the other one loves them.
I don’t understand the Democrats" hatred of firearms. All their attempts to go after them are ineffective at preventing gun violence.
Meanwhile, pro-gun people are one of the largest single-issue voting blocks in the county. So all the Dems are really doing is handing votes over to Republicans.
Meanwhile, pro-gun people are one of the largest single-issue voting blocks in the county. So all the Dems are really doing is handing votes over to Republicans.
This is a point that cannot be stressed enough.
As of 2022, Iowa had a ballot initiative for codifying a strict scrutiny clause on restrictions on the right to bear arms in our state constitution. We have a ~3-way split of Democrat, Republican, and Independent voters. The measure passed with ~66% support.
On an entirely unrelated note, our Republican governor won her election with ~58% the vote against a Democrat pushing - admittedly mild - restrictions on firearms.
Blue team isn’t going to lose blue team die-hard votes by dropping these points. They are, however, demonstrably alienating Independents who reject such restrictions.
Democrats don’t hate firearms. They’re ambivalent or even slightly favorable to firearms. They hate men, especially white men.
Gather up some actual American leftists, interrupt their busy day of adding stripes to the rainbow flag, and ask them the following questions and note their answers:
What do you think of Andrew Tate?
Why do you think so many young white men are drawn to Andrew Tate?
What messaging do you have for young white men?
Why should young white men be on board with your cause?
What does your cause have to offer young white men?
The answers I would expect from them/have heard from them:
He’s a degenerate scumbag who should be in prison.
Because all white men are just as evil as he is.
Go die in a war.
They shouldn’t; the left isn’t for them.
Nothing; white men already have everything and deserve nothing.
To the left, white men are boogeymen. “Historical oppressors.” Present-day Republicans. The patriarchy. And they apply this hatred to ALL white males including the unborn. “I’d have an abortion if I found out the fetus was male.”
The actual problems that cause mass shooters are childhood trauma, isolation, lack of social safety nets. The right hates social safety nets because the yacht owning class has told them to for so long. The left loves social safety nets…except for white men.
Addressing the needs of white men, giving them actual help and care, devoting resources to them to allow them to lead healthy productive lives, overcome and escape trauma…unthinkable in either party. So the right says “that’s what you get for sending your kids to school instead of church” and the left says “What about making the magazine release harder to push?”
I’m a single, white, male firearm owner. I don’t feel hated by the left at all.
Recognizing that white men have been privileged and addressing the institutional issues that have given white men an unfair leg up for centuries isn’t an assault on white men.
Yikes dude get off Rumble and turn off Tucker Carlson. I'm a white man on the left ambivalent to guns but want more restrictions. And your whole post is all fantasy to feed a victim complex, it's seriously embarrassing.
Are you a Tate fan since you brought him up multiple times? Dude is a piece of filth scumbag.
Let’s not pretend Blue team is absent of any responsibility or blame here - doing so does them a disservice in withholding the necessary pressures to change and do better, enabling the exact mediocrity and incompetence currently on display.
It may shock you to realize that one can correctly lay fault at the hands of a party while understanding that party is overall less problematic than its opponent.
And, of course, the only problem with guns is mass shooters.
It was, in point of fact, the thing I was responding to.
I’m not sure if you’d actually read that source let alone much else on the subject - do you believe there is zero overlap between the general pressures toward violence (firearm or otherwise) and the observed pathway to becoming a mass shooter?
No thank you. You’re asking the US government to do that? Practically, this would get sourced to your local police department and weaponized against minorities.
Well that sounds like it would be a drastic change from the status quo /s
And anyway, CA just passed a bill to do exactly that (psychiatric commitment solely through the criminal justice system) but for any crime. It’s supposed to address homelessness (?) but that kind of power will get fucked up and out of control really fast. It’s like they got it backwards. God forbid they address the people with the literal murder weapons. No. Let’s go punish the people without rent bills and mortgages. That makes perfect sense.
I can’t see any way that this could possibly go wrong, not ever. /s
Let’s look at this on multiple fronts.
First, who is going to pay for that? Are you going to require people to pay for the ability to exercise their constitutionally-guaranteed rights? What other rights would you say that people should need to pay for in order to be able to use them?
Second, what criteria would you use to determine if someone is “fit”? A criminal background check is objective; wither you’ve been convicted of a crime or you haven’t. A psychiatric test is about an indeterminate future, an even that hasn’t happened yet. How are you going to guarantee that only people who will create a crime are being prevented from having rights, and not any other people?
Third, how do you distinguish between a protected political opinion (“the bourgeoisie need to be violently overthrown through force of arms by the proletariat”) and beliefs that have no rational basis in protected political speech (“pedophile Jews are killing people with space lasers, therefore I need to murder everyone at Lollapalooza”)? Given that involuntary commitment is already a disqualifying factor for owning a firearm, how is your proposal meaningfully different unless you are arguing that many people should not be permitted to exercise their protected rights because they might act in a criminal way at some indeterminate point in the future?
That’s already covered on form 4473; if you have been involuntarily committed or adjudicated as mentally defective, you are not able to own a firearm legally. States are legally obligated to report this information.
or beats their spouse each night
This is also already covered on form 4473; if you have been convicted of any domestic violence offense–misdemeanor or felony–or you are the subject of a protective order, you are not eligible to legally own a firearm. States are legally obligated to report this information.
So what are you asking for, since both of the things you say you really want are already covered by existing laws?
I think it’s a cautionary tale against forcing women to have kids.
We need access to birth control, healthcare (including abortion), sex education, and quality education.
These horrible things cannot be hidden, just like war images shouldn’t be hidden. This is reality and we can’t turn a blind eye. We have to address real shit that happens in the real world to learn from it and get better. Or at least face the reality of the things we force people into.
When I was a toddler I followed my dog into the woods. I don’t have any memory of it but my parents said I was gone for hours and then suddenly we both just came walking out, perfectly fine. Thanks, Andy, for protecting me that day.
The phrasing of this could be interpreted to sound like your problem isn't that the woman's punishment was too lenient, just that a theoretical guy would have experienced an actual consequence.
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