Wouldn’t it be nice if you could just “Move on” and stop dealing with the problems from your past? Just like this guy Kyle who “Moved on” from owing me $2,000 and thinks that’s the end of it.
The armed forces and police are lousy with racists and fascists. There is a culture in both professions of protecting racists and fascists from accountability.
From the light googling I did, the military is less bigoted and extreme than the general population. So, while I would never suggest there aren’t any fascists in the military, do you have any data that says there’s more than a representative amount compared to the rest of the country? If not, what makes you believe that the military is pro-fascism?
The uniforms, standing in lines, getting yelled at, yes sir no sir, saluting superiors, following orders.
That’s the authoritarian state of mind. A lot of people find comfort in being told what to do. The military molds recruits to respect and follow authority.
Have you been in the military? You are describing boot camp and movies, from my experience in the Navy. Maybe it’s different in other branches but I suspect not.
Also, none of that has anything to do with authoritarianism.
This makes no sense, unless you know that you’re wrong.
We have to agree on the definitions of words to have a meaningful discussion. You clearly are working with some definition of “authoritarianism” that also includes wearing uniforms and saying sir. Before we can continue on, I need to at least know what you mean when you say "“authoritarianism”.
The only reason I can see why you’d refuse to give me this information that only you can give me is because you realize that your definition is not accurate.
While I respect npr somewhat, I have to push back and say I personally don’t find it surprising that the military and other forms of institutionalized violence like the police are not prone to what the media, and by extension, the general public in the US term “extremism”.
Extremism is a relativistic term based off of what is socially accepted at the time. The less socially accepted an act or expressed thought is and the more challenging that act/thought is to the social paradigms in place, the more likely it is that said thought will be painted as extremism and thereby carry a negative connotation.
History repeatedly points to riots and militancy among protest movements as indicating symptoms of a society not representing the interests of particular communities, AND the socially acceptable means of changing their situation proving ineffective.
Militaries and police have historically AT BEST stood by while waiting for fascists/racists/homophobics/nationalists or antifascists/socialists/anarchists to throw the first blow BECAUSE their interests lie only in “maintaining order” and “preserving the peace.”
HOWEVER, I might point out that fascists are far more likely to engage in violence than antifascists. And more poignantly fascists are often prone to using the rhetoric of the police and military, often referring to themselves as wanting to restore order and claiming to only desire.
This is not a mistake. They are courting, often successfully, the police and military to their cause.
Indeed I’d argue that fascism is the immune response of capitalism dating back to its proto-inception when former white slave holders became indignant at the federal laws no longer reflecting their values, and failing to legally protect their right to their “property”. I’d expound on this, but this post is already obviously overly lengthy, so I’ll get to the point.
The police and military are the only institutions our society imbues with socially acceptable and legally defended violence. They supposedly are there to protect the people of a society and the institutions that ensure the longevity of that society, aka the nation. But I’d posit that the police and military have NEVER been in place to protect the people, nor its institutions, even from their earliest inceptions in ANY nation.
Instead they are here to protect and fight for PROPERTY, which capitalists have historically overtly seen PEOPLE as property. One might argue that it is less overt today, but even if that were true, that is a PROBLEM that capitalists want to SOLVE. Because if a PERSON claims they are NOT property, then of what use are they to the capitalist?
So when the police and military AT BEST sit idly by while fascists infect societies across the globe, in all aspects of life, and paint those who are ACTUALLY standing up to them as extremists, I personally would say that the military and police have not failed their people, but that’s only because they were never here for the people in the first place.
To be very clear, I personally think that if you’re a fascist or a fascist sympathizer, then you should not be afforded any rights under the law. Your beliefs are so toxic to society, they are a cancer, and the treatment is nothing short of a death sentence. And if the police and military are unwilling to be part of the cure, then they are part of the cancer.
To be very clear, I personally think that if you’re a fascist or a fascist sympathizer, then you should not be afforded any rights under the law.
This is a very, very troubling stance. Imagine, for a moment, that some unnamed, but generally orange-hued person was president and the law of the land was that fascists and fascist sympathizers were not afforded any rights under the law. Holy hell.
Do you really hold this view, or are you just being dramatic?
I actually hold this view. Time and again fascists have infected societies the world over and because capitalism thrives on oppressing some people (usually minorities and immigrants), fascists have been happy to have capitalists simply point a finger to the soon to be opressed, and the military and police, themselves beneficiaries of capitalism, are incentivized to go along.
I think the general society I live in today would consider my viewpoints extreme, but I would not label myself an extremist, no. I don’t think most people think their own ideologies as being extreme.
That depends on whether “best” is moral, which are often conflated as being the same thing. Antifascists were considered extremists in Nazi Germany and Italy by the general society, but for hopefully obvious reasons, you can see that Antifascism was a moral and logical response rooted in the survival of those they were persecuting.
My apologies, my previous statement was an implication and was not explicit.
I think that any form of thought or activity that lies outside of the acceptable norms of a society can be painted as extremism by the majority with disastrous results, and thusly the results are so abhorrent to conclude that society is NOT the best judge of what is extremist or not because calling something extremism or someone extremist often connotates moral judgment on said actions or persons.
I would dispute that you can’t disect moral judgent from the invocation of the term extremism.
Btw, if I were you, I would next point out that if my claim that society is not the best judgement of extremism, then ask then who or what is?
To which I would respond that we should throw out the term as it actually just refers to those who want changes to society that upset the paradigm under which it is founded.
My opinion is that a society that is based on inclusivity as its core value is probably better than the one we have right now. With the following caveats:
Said society would need to have an addendum that it need exclude those who would tout exclusivity and violently express the necessity of exclusivity in preferential treatment of one group over another. This society would have to fundamentally acknowledge that speech, left unchecked, can be violent even by inference.
I’d like to take a brief reprieve here and field a question of my own, which is simply what are your thoughts on my arguments thus far?
As I said before I genuinely await your rebuttal. I don’t just want to have the ball punted back to me.
Im happy to field your most recent question regarding the role of capitalism in my hypthetical “utopian” society, as you put it, but I am curious to hear what objections you might have given the ammo I’ve fed you thus far.
I think the fact that you believe a just society is one where a belief, no matter how vile, makes it acceptable to be raped, murdered, tortured, etc. makes you an extremist. You haven’t given a second thought about how this would work in practice because if you had just saying something like that would bother you.
So in regards to the role of capitalism in my version of a better world, I’d say I’m no fan and wouldn’t endorse unregulated capitalism, and if I were to endorse capitalism, it would have to be very severely regulated to the point where certain industries it would be more beneficial to have it run by the state.
As far as considering the moral costs and potential horrific repurcussions of stripping one particular group of their rights, I do see your point. My only real retort would be that the cost to ending fascism would require an immutable definition of exactly what fascism is, which I believe haa already happened, and then working towards eradicating it. Yes, by any means necessary, albeit hopefully without those extreme scenarios you describe. I personally don’t think denying fascists rights would play out as you describe, but I’ll be the first to admit I can’t possibly know that for certain.
And, I’ll add, my beliefs are not immutable. I’ll not say it is anyone’s burden to convince me otherwise, but I’d be happy to hear not only your criticisms but also your solutions. I will say that if you offer NO solutions to the problem of fascist infiltrations into Democratic institutions, then I don’t value your criticisms much though.
There has to be SOME ideas put forward about how to solve this problem. I suppose ultimately I’m simply unwilling to accept even a small iota of fascism in the worldwide society, and desire to work towards eradicating it to as close to entirety as is possible. And I refuse to believe it isn’t at all possible.
To be very clear, if you’re a fascist or a fascist sympathizer, then you should not be afforded any rights under the law.
This is how you end up with political dissidents taking one way helicopter rides, or being raped to death in a gulag, or being rounded up and forcibly sterilized in an interment camp. No one should be denied their rights under the law. Ever.
I’ll be even more clear. Just so you understand where I stand here. I generally want democracy, but I also don’t want even the most subtle of routes open for fascism to worm its way back into political discourse like it is now.
Free speech and free forms of expression have long been historically shown to be abused by disingenuous bad actors.
These rights have been utilized as a back door for fascists to overtake Democratic institutions by invoking these rights while simultaneously infringing on these same rights for immigrants, people of color, and those within the LGBTQ community.
So no. If you want fundamental change in the world, then you need to change the fundamental foundations of how the entire societal structure is conceived, and that starts with explicitly hard red lining any and all fascist speech and fascist rights. I have no illusions that this will happen any time soon. But I stand by this belief.
and that starts with explicitly hard red lining any and all fascist speech and fascist rights.
I’m 50 and I’ve watched as the term “Fasciscm” has been redefined over the years. The difference between this wiki page from 2004 and today’s is eyebrow raising. In less than 20 years the definition has been expanded to the point where it arguably includes, via “subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation”, nearly the entirety of the modern day Democratic Party!
If declaring someone to be “fascist” allowed the Government to declare them an Outlaw then it will be weaponized to remove political opposition. Examples abound; China, Venezuela, Cuba, the USSR then Russia, Chile and a whole pile more. The instant that a Government gets the power to declare people Outlaws based on their beliefs they eliminate them, brutally.
I shudder every time I see someone spout off about “banning the republican party” for this very reason.
But I stand by this belief.
I believe that you are pushing this in good faith but I also have no, and I mean absolutely none, faith that such ability wouldn’t be massively misused. You don’t solve Authoritarian-ism by paving the way for Totalitarianism.
Yes. I am only 10 years younger than you, but a decade’s more experience is not to be discounted by any means.
I’ll push back on this and say that scholars and historians have struggled with the exact definition of fascism, but it is in my personal opinion that said scholars are MUCH closer to defining fascism today than they have even a decade ago, to the point where I actually do believe we have come to a concrete definition today.
Even your comparison of the two Wikipedia articles exemplifies this imho, although it is apparent you and I differ on our raising of the eyebrows. As the article from 2004 mainly points more to the history of fascism than the current article which, given the benefit of more data, has more data to draw from further defining fascism and how it has been expressed today.
I actually share your skepticism that this power could be wielded responsibly, which is why I’m generally not surprised nor upset at it not being a popular opinion.
In short, I am skeptical of my own beliefs, yes. And perhaps I lack your foresight, but I generally hold the belief that there aren’t other legitimate likely solutions to the eradication of fascism that exist within the current frameworks of societal public discourse, and am unwilling to relent, throw up my hands, and give up.
So Amazon allows nazi to publish on their platform. This should be the news article and nationwide. Also any book binding company should be held accountable.
I could see boycotting publishers but I don’t think the book binders review content on the print on demand, and that seems like a pretty big new ask for them.
Everyone already knows the ways that Amazon sucks, somehow I doubt that one niche publisher selling on there is going to make a difference.
I am also not sure what you mean by “held accountable”. I don’t think they are breaking any laws in the publishing aspect.
Otters are apex predators simply because they have the ability of tactical genius working in strike group squads. If you’ve ever seen the videos of them taking down and drowning crocodiles, then you know. They are not omg adorbs so cute!! They can and will destroy you. Walking navy seal copypastas.
I’m kind of curious what kind of evidence you’ve seen that has convinced you to believe in, and worship, Hellenic pagan dieties? What is it about this specific diety has convinced you that it’s not only real, but worthy of worship?
Hope this doesn’t come off wrong, I’m genuinely curious.
I originally became a Pagan at the age of 18. With Paganism, you choose the god that fits you best. You don’t alter your moral compass to fit into a god’s ideals lie one would Christianity.
I eventually found myself attracted to being a general Chaosist and specifically a Discordian
What convinced me was reading the holy book Principia Discordia. It teaches that life is all about perspective of the individual and that what you see with your own eyes may not be what others see in theirs.
I also see Chaos as the ultimate creation force because if everything was static and unmoving, we wouldn’t be here right now.
I also had a near-death experience with Eris, where I saw here when I had a heart attack at 29 due to a genetic condition that I have.
So there’s not a lot of physical evidence for only one specific god or many, but I like to make sure that I notice the things that shouldn’t have gone statistically in my favor. That hopefully is sowing something watching over me.
I lived on Hawaii for a time. It is absolutely BAFFLING to me how our disaster warning system, one of the most badass on the fucking globe, could have failed in this spectacular a fashion.
Makes perfect sense that the Republicans would want to steal from a charitable organization providing basic health services to poor women. They hate the poor and they hate women.
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