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higher wages for the servers... by the customers. Fnbs

Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So… We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn’t a grammatical horror to read]

chrizbie ,
@chrizbie@lemmy.nz avatar

I’m not in america, in our country when we buy a meal the tax is included, as is the cost of paying staff a living wage and tips are really only given (volunteerily, without prompt) in certain scenarios where service might genuinely be extraordinary.

It’s always been fascinating to me that it could be done any other way and to be honest it sounds incredibly complicated and quite shitty the way america does it, it seems to me like it’s an old fashioned relic from the swashbuckling 1800’s, pay your maiden well and she’ll make sure your mead is always topped up… But in 2023 it seems absurd, prepared food and drink is just a product like anything else, do you tip at Walmart when you buy a TV?

tony ,

Knowing some of the absurd stories I’ve heard from americans (tipping car salesmen, pharmacies…) then tipping walmart wouldn’t surprise me at all.

ickplant ,
@ickplant@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, the tipping culture is out of control, but anyone who tips a pharmacist or a car salesman is just a moron.

Master , (edited )
@Master@lemmy.world avatar

Walmart has a policy where you are not allowed to accept tips. If you are caught you are fired. People try to tip all the time for the grocery delivery stuff and if they manage to get money into your hand or the delivery basket you have to inform a member of the management staff. Granted this might not be true at every location but it is part of the corporate training you have to do if you work there longer than 4 months.

NathanielThomas ,

Which is galling since Walmart pays the minimum wage

BubblyMango ,

Is it even legal to force you to pay more than the menu reads? I know tipping 18% is a social norm now in the states, but you can technically say no to that. Can you say no to this service tax?

key ,

The menu clearly states the service fee.

https://lemmy.keychat.org/pictrs/image/9a0fe7d0-d27c-42a7-b853-d8a94385bb89.jpeg

NathanielThomas ,

The menu fine prints the service fee

bitwolf ,

I love how they try to do it over the “per CA State law” clause so it seems like they’re forced to charge that.

Is this a law for all restaurants?

intensely_human ,

“Per CA state law, water is only served upon request”

Because we all know that the biggest contributor to the water crisis: glasses of water sitting untouched at restaurant tables.

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

No need to “tip” then, already included.

unceme ,
@unceme@lemmy.one avatar

Tipping isn’t really a social norm as much as it is a social imperative-- the food is considerably cheaper than it should be because you’re expected to make up the cost difference in tips.

Womble ,

A companies shitty business model is not the responsibility of the customer.

BubblyMango ,

It is a social norm. Prices at restaurants are not cheap even without including tips, the amount tipped is decided by social norms, and if i get a shitty service i sure as hell dont tip.

squaresinger ,

What is this nonsense? I mean, since the customers are the only source of income for a restaurant, of course the customers pay for the wages.

But why hide that behind obscure markups (that’s all a service charge/tip is)? Why not just price the food 18% higher and drop the service charge?

That way, the restaurant earns the same money, but the customers actually know what they are going to pay and the restaurant visit doesn’t end on a down note when paying.

MDKAOD ,

You’re stating the obvious. The owners are making a political statement.

tony , (edited )

People look at the menu, decide the prices are reasonable and eat. They then get hit with an 18% service charge and (in the US) a 20% tip on top.

The restaurant could increase their prices by 18%, but then people would decide to eat elsewhere. Of course they’ll do that anyway after being hit with all the charges, but the owner thinks it’s worth it to get the custom once.

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

Wild that somebody would decide $22.25 is reasonable for chicken wings. Maybe for 100 of them …

tony ,

They seem to be massively overcharging, which makes the whole thing a lot wilder. At those prices they could afford to pay their staff well and abolish both tips and service charge…

Suspect the owner is just a knob.

nan ,
@nan@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s in LA, everything is expensive and well is very relative. Minimum wage is almost $17.

Halosheep ,

Why would you tip when the restaurant just pre-charged an 18% tip? They say it isn’t a tip but it goes to the employees so, unless the service staff was beyond exemplary, just don’t tip. It’s less than I would have anyway.

squaresinger ,

I wouldn’t tip on that either.

watcher ,

Does anyone now if the restaurant pays different taxes on food/drinks sold and tip/service fees?

Tkrun42 ,

In Washington (everywhere is different) a service fee is taxed as income to the restaurant. A restaurant is not taxed on tips. It’s better for the restaurant to not do a service fee (less taxes) than tips

If a Washington restaurant is charging a service fee, it has to be posted. The verbiage has to say how it’s being used/if the restaurant is taking any portion

Waldowal ,
@Waldowal@lemmy.world avatar

“We want to charge you more, but we want to make sure you blame our wait staff for it.”

I wouldn’t be surprised if the QR code sends you to a website bitching about “the current administration”.

LordOfTheChia ,

From the site they link to:

What About Tips?

If customers have exceptional service, we encourage them to tip our employees at the percentage or amount they feel comfortable with.

Maybe they should change the “Suggested Tips” with “Had exceptional service? Feel free to add a tip.” and start at 5%

Also, they should be clear if all or part of the “service charge” goes towards employee salaries.

From:

www.jonandvinnys.com/service-charge

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Not being from the US, I’m not familiar with the practices there. What kind of shells are suitable for kids? Is 12 necessary? Or is 20 sufficient?

glimse ,

There’s a MILLION things to make fun of our country about and you chose this one that’s not even related? You’re the internet equivalent of a middle schooler who blurts out Family Guy quites in every conversation. Get new material!

newthrowaway20 ,

You sound 10 times more ridiculous than that other guy

glimse ,

“Hurr durr school shootings” is top tier comedy

McTavern ,

20 bucks, even for LA, is pretty steep for a kids meal.

PraiseTheSoup , (edited )

“Kids shells” almost certainly refers to a basic pasta dish, “shells and cheese”. It’s just macaroni and cheese but with shell pasta instead. And the bill denoting “kids” likely means it’s a smaller portion than usual. Quite possibly the cheapest item on the menu to produce. The price for this item is insane.

I’m not sure what you’re asking with the 12 or 20.

Edit: ok guys I got the joke, thanks for the subtle hints

intensely_human ,

It can be hard to gauge what people mean sometimes

Getawombatupya ,

You only need three shells

anarchrist ,

Lol this guy doesn’t know how to use the shells!

Demonbooker ,

Bold of you to assume that’s going to the servers and not straight into the owners pocket.

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge.

OP does not seem to be assuming any such thing.

SCB ,

It’s likely going to bussers/hosts/associated non-cook BOH

crwcomposer ,

I thought the point of paying servers a living wage was to make tipping unnecessary.

SCB ,

This line of thinking is just making serving a less attractive job for millions of people to save yourself a small amount of money.

Cybermass ,

This line of thinking is what let’s wage thieves sleep at night.

SCB ,

Tell me you don’t understand wage theft without telling me you don’t understand wage theft.

IamSparticles ,

If they have started charging this service fee customers will be less inclined to tip on top. So if the money from the service fee is not entirely being used to increase staff wages, then the restaurant management is effectively stealing their tips. That is wage theft in spirit if not legal definition.

SCB ,

This conclusions requires two separate assumptions from you that are not evidence-based

Cybermass ,

The sun’s core being filled with a quark plasma soup instead of, for example cotton candy, is also an assumption that is not evidence-based.

It’s almost like we as humans can use logic and reason to determine things to be extremely significantly probable without having proof in our hands.

SCB , (edited )

Our understanding of the sun’s composition is absolutely evidence-based.

www.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/www_solar/PUS/…/howstudy.html#….

You’re making the assumption that

1: this money is embezzled by the owner

2: people are less likely to tip

You’re also making a third: that servers receiving less pay won’t go elsewhere

Whereas we extrapolate from data to understand the Sun (moving from evidence to conclusion) you are starting with your expected result and then manufacturing caused (embezzlement, lack of tips)

This is the opposite of using “logic and reason”

NathanielThomas ,

It’s not that we’re assuming the money is being embezzled by the owner, it’s that we don’t exactly trust that this 18%–which instead of going directly to the server is going to the establishment–will be used to solely fund wage top-ups.

It’s a very safe assumption that anybody who sees an 18% gratuity automatically added to the bill will not tip any further. Some will, but most will be done tipping at that point.

CmdrShepard ,

I believe you made the argument stating that this is going to reduce server’s wages and if these fees aren’t going to employees and its not the business owner keeping them, then where could that money possibly be going?

SCB ,

No I said people wanting to move servers to a set hourly wage would reduce their wages.

CmdrShepard ,

But where’s the logic and reason in this opinion? The other guy is “making assumptions” by saying this will improve conditions when they don’t have to beg for tips, and here you’re saying their wages will go down without any facts or evidence immediately after your snarky analogy about the sun’s position. Ridiculous.

SCB , (edited )

That’s not the point I was making though. If the servers are tipped less due to this policy (the other person’s claim) and make less money, they’re likely to quit because serving has extremely high turnover anyway

However -

Servers regularly are tipped above “target percentages.” This is a fact - especially once you consider places with low cost-per-plate (diners etc). If you pay them 15% of total sales or whatever you’re essentially capping tips at 15%, lowering their wages.

twistedtxb ,
@twistedtxb@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s absolutely insane. I would let them know that it’s the last time I ever set foot in their establishment

hydrospanner ,

This would be one of those rare times where I would wish I had cash.

I’d tip the staff directly, based on the original amount, then leave exactly the price of the ordered items, not including the service fee.

Then I’d leave.

DoomBot5 ,

All the arguments about tipping here are missing the point. The restaurant owner just came up with a bullshit way of raising the prices without showing larger numbers on the menu. That should honestly be illegal.

mac ,

A lottt of restaurants in socal do this, unfortunately. I’ve never seen it this high, though.

valkyre09 ,

maybe it’s to allow take-away at a lower price, like a dine in vs eat out charge.

Very rare, I’m from Ireland & have only seen it once in a Chinese restaurant. They were very clear about it in the menu though so it wasn’t a sticker shock price

dept ,

we have that in Egypt. normally like 15% service charge when eating in the restaurant but nothing when taking out.

CmdrShepard ,

I’ve seen some restaurants adding a take-out fee recently. It’s fucking insane.

instamat ,

Won’t somebody think of the poor restaurant owners?? They need all the money they can squeeze out of us!

ponfriend ,

It soon will be. news.bloomberglaw.com/…/prepare-for-renewed-ftc-r…

DoomBot5 ,

Reading the article, I’m not feeling too encouraged that this will actually impact small restaurants. From the article it sounds like the FTC is just going after large corporations.

ponfriend ,

This is already about to pass in California. legiscan.com/CA/bill/SB478/2023

The FTC is going to write a rule similar to what local governments have given themselves power to regulate. The article gave some examples, but it is not exhaustive.

frosty ,
@frosty@pawb.social avatar

…only mildly infuriating?!

At least this restaurant due is showing their own ass.

Nioxic ,

Ask the waiter?

IamSparticles ,

Yes. The manager will just repeat what they’re told to say. Ask a waiter if they’re actually being payed significantly more since the fee was added.

Black_Gulaman ,
@Black_Gulaman@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There’s already a service charge, why tip more?

Arsenal4ever ,

Corporations invented Jaywalking to pass the problem of death by vehicle from the manufacturer to the victim. Corporations invented the concept of Litterbug to shift blame from the makers of trash to the disposers of trash. Corporations invented the concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift the blame from the makers of carbon to the users of carbon.

This is just the same thing. Corporations are good at this.

Melco ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    NathanielThomas ,

    It would be fucking awesome if it ended up in the landfill.

    It ends up on pristine beautiful south Pacific island beaches.

    Death_Equity ,

    Fiji water has the most inefficient bottle return program. Most of the bottles just end up in Jakarta.

    jarfil ,

    Corporations:

    • Reduce… no, we don’t want them to buy less!
    • Reuse… still not good enough.
    • Buy more and Recycle… now this, we can support. Add a recycling charge to it for good measure.
    RaivoKulli ,

    Where I live our recycling rate is pretty good and a lot of it either ends up recycled back to use or is used for energy. A lot less stuff ends up in the landfill. Seems to work alright, the rates could be higher but that’s something that varies from country to country.

    CmdrShepard ,

    In the US we can’t even recycle plastic anymore because China quit buying it. I’ve read that tons of recycled paper/cardboard just ends up in a landfill too because recyclers get too much to handle or it gets contaminated. One of the 3 “R’s” is “reduce” meaning not generating that waste to begin with, but many people only consider the “recycle” part as being all they need to do to be doing things sustainably.

    quinnly ,

    One of the 3 “R’s” is “reduce”

    Not just one of the Rs, it’s the first R. It’s the most important one!

    FlowVoid ,

    Trash has been around far longer than corporations, and people have taken responsibility for their trash long before corporations existed.

    Arsenal4ever ,

    Okay, thank you for setting me straight.

    stealin ,

    I rarely use tip based services bc it shouldn’t be my concern and it makes me uncomfortable. It’s always been a bad business model to make the customer feel like the workers are slaves that don’t get paid enough. Never understood why people are so into going out to eat with that dynamic unless they enjoyed the power dynamic of it all, dumb serf get my food or you will go hungry muahhahaha!

    NathanielThomas ,

    I don’t get it, so they want you to tip on the auto-tipped bill? And the auto-tip is 18%, more than the suggested tips?

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