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higher wages for the servers... by the customers. Fnbs

Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So… We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn’t a grammatical horror to read]

PraiseTheSoup ,

$22.50 for kids shells? Please tell me where this is so I can never go there.

Heavybell ,
@Heavybell@lemmy.world avatar

If the service charge is always there then just raise prices by 18% and stop misleading people ffs…

WoahWoah , (edited )

deleted_by_author

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    bobo ,

    Because the price on the menu then appears lower than what the customer actually pays. It’s completely misleading.

    WoahWoah ,

    Ohhh, that’s a really good point. I didn’t think about that. This hasn’t happened where I live. Thanks for helping me understand. That IS really misleading.

    SnowBunting ,

    It also guilt trips the customer into accepting the unexpected added price.

    raptir ,

    And even if it’s on their printed menu, you might look at the menu on Google Maps and see one place has a dish for $20 and another place had the same dish for $24. You go to the cheaper place and sit down and see the 18% fee. Are you necessarily going to leave and go to the other one?

    Shush ,

    I would probably leave and just go home. I wouldn’t be in the mood to eat anymore.

    aesthelete ,

    It’s usually on the menu but it’s in fine print under an asterisk.

    It’s alarmingly common (though not usually as high as 18%), and ought to be fucking illegal.

    atticus88th ,

    Also it costs far too much for the owner to reprint all those menus with higher prices. And to update all the food delivery apps… fuhgeddaboudit

    CmdrShepard ,

    But they can afford to reprint the menu to include a note about the 18% service charge or when their item prices increase ‘organically?’ This is a BS excuse.

    sukhmel ,

    My guess would be that it was sarcasm exactly because of the reason you explained. It contradicts really so hard it almost makes it obvious (not completely, it seems)

    aesthelete ,

    It has nothing to do with the cost of re-printing menus, because they have to do that anyway to put the legalese on there about the percentage surcharges.

    new_acct_who_dis ,

    Because no one agreed to pay that when they were ordering. Imagine being a on budget for a night out and getting this extra charge outta nowhere

    WoahWoah ,

    Yes, that makes total sense. I just hadn’t thought it through.

    IdleSheep ,

    Imagine you only have 10 dollars on you and buy a 9.99 item off the menu because of it, only to discover at the register there’s a 20% service fee. Not very a very pleasant customer experience, is it?

    Thank God where I live this is completely illegal. The prices on the menus are always the final price.

    aesthelete ,

    Thank God where I live this is completely illegal. The prices on the menus are always the final price.

    ^ This is the answer folks…this type of bullshit legalese in restaurants should not be legal.

    Anticorp ,

    You own that restaurant. Don’t you?

    WoahWoah ,

    Caught me.

    NathanielThomas ,

    I don’t get it, so they want you to tip on the auto-tipped bill? And the auto-tip is 18%, more than the suggested tips?

    stealin ,

    I rarely use tip based services bc it shouldn’t be my concern and it makes me uncomfortable. It’s always been a bad business model to make the customer feel like the workers are slaves that don’t get paid enough. Never understood why people are so into going out to eat with that dynamic unless they enjoyed the power dynamic of it all, dumb serf get my food or you will go hungry muahhahaha!

    Arsenal4ever ,

    Corporations invented Jaywalking to pass the problem of death by vehicle from the manufacturer to the victim. Corporations invented the concept of Litterbug to shift blame from the makers of trash to the disposers of trash. Corporations invented the concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift the blame from the makers of carbon to the users of carbon.

    This is just the same thing. Corporations are good at this.

    Melco ,

    deleted_by_author

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    NathanielThomas ,

    It would be fucking awesome if it ended up in the landfill.

    It ends up on pristine beautiful south Pacific island beaches.

    Death_Equity ,

    Fiji water has the most inefficient bottle return program. Most of the bottles just end up in Jakarta.

    jarfil ,

    Corporations:

    • Reduce… no, we don’t want them to buy less!
    • Reuse… still not good enough.
    • Buy more and Recycle… now this, we can support. Add a recycling charge to it for good measure.
    RaivoKulli ,

    Where I live our recycling rate is pretty good and a lot of it either ends up recycled back to use or is used for energy. A lot less stuff ends up in the landfill. Seems to work alright, the rates could be higher but that’s something that varies from country to country.

    CmdrShepard ,

    In the US we can’t even recycle plastic anymore because China quit buying it. I’ve read that tons of recycled paper/cardboard just ends up in a landfill too because recyclers get too much to handle or it gets contaminated. One of the 3 “R’s” is “reduce” meaning not generating that waste to begin with, but many people only consider the “recycle” part as being all they need to do to be doing things sustainably.

    quinnly ,

    One of the 3 “R’s” is “reduce”

    Not just one of the Rs, it’s the first R. It’s the most important one!

    FlowVoid ,

    Trash has been around far longer than corporations, and people have taken responsibility for their trash long before corporations existed.

    Arsenal4ever ,

    Okay, thank you for setting me straight.

    Black_Gulaman ,
    @Black_Gulaman@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    There’s already a service charge, why tip more?

    Nioxic ,

    Ask the waiter?

    IamSparticles ,

    Yes. The manager will just repeat what they’re told to say. Ask a waiter if they’re actually being payed significantly more since the fee was added.

    frosty ,
    @frosty@pawb.social avatar

    …only mildly infuriating?!

    At least this restaurant due is showing their own ass.

    DoomBot5 ,

    All the arguments about tipping here are missing the point. The restaurant owner just came up with a bullshit way of raising the prices without showing larger numbers on the menu. That should honestly be illegal.

    mac ,

    A lottt of restaurants in socal do this, unfortunately. I’ve never seen it this high, though.

    valkyre09 ,

    maybe it’s to allow take-away at a lower price, like a dine in vs eat out charge.

    Very rare, I’m from Ireland & have only seen it once in a Chinese restaurant. They were very clear about it in the menu though so it wasn’t a sticker shock price

    dept ,

    we have that in Egypt. normally like 15% service charge when eating in the restaurant but nothing when taking out.

    CmdrShepard ,

    I’ve seen some restaurants adding a take-out fee recently. It’s fucking insane.

    instamat ,

    Won’t somebody think of the poor restaurant owners?? They need all the money they can squeeze out of us!

    ponfriend ,

    It soon will be. news.bloomberglaw.com/…/prepare-for-renewed-ftc-r…

    DoomBot5 ,

    Reading the article, I’m not feeling too encouraged that this will actually impact small restaurants. From the article it sounds like the FTC is just going after large corporations.

    ponfriend ,

    This is already about to pass in California. legiscan.com/CA/bill/SB478/2023

    The FTC is going to write a rule similar to what local governments have given themselves power to regulate. The article gave some examples, but it is not exhaustive.

    twistedtxb ,
    @twistedtxb@lemmy.ca avatar

    That’s absolutely insane. I would let them know that it’s the last time I ever set foot in their establishment

    hydrospanner ,

    This would be one of those rare times where I would wish I had cash.

    I’d tip the staff directly, based on the original amount, then leave exactly the price of the ordered items, not including the service fee.

    Then I’d leave.

    crwcomposer ,

    I thought the point of paying servers a living wage was to make tipping unnecessary.

    SCB ,

    This line of thinking is just making serving a less attractive job for millions of people to save yourself a small amount of money.

    Cybermass ,

    This line of thinking is what let’s wage thieves sleep at night.

    SCB ,

    Tell me you don’t understand wage theft without telling me you don’t understand wage theft.

    IamSparticles ,

    If they have started charging this service fee customers will be less inclined to tip on top. So if the money from the service fee is not entirely being used to increase staff wages, then the restaurant management is effectively stealing their tips. That is wage theft in spirit if not legal definition.

    SCB ,

    This conclusions requires two separate assumptions from you that are not evidence-based

    Cybermass ,

    The sun’s core being filled with a quark plasma soup instead of, for example cotton candy, is also an assumption that is not evidence-based.

    It’s almost like we as humans can use logic and reason to determine things to be extremely significantly probable without having proof in our hands.

    SCB , (edited )

    Our understanding of the sun’s composition is absolutely evidence-based.

    www.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/www_solar/PUS/…/howstudy.html#….

    You’re making the assumption that

    1: this money is embezzled by the owner

    2: people are less likely to tip

    You’re also making a third: that servers receiving less pay won’t go elsewhere

    Whereas we extrapolate from data to understand the Sun (moving from evidence to conclusion) you are starting with your expected result and then manufacturing caused (embezzlement, lack of tips)

    This is the opposite of using “logic and reason”

    NathanielThomas ,

    It’s not that we’re assuming the money is being embezzled by the owner, it’s that we don’t exactly trust that this 18%–which instead of going directly to the server is going to the establishment–will be used to solely fund wage top-ups.

    It’s a very safe assumption that anybody who sees an 18% gratuity automatically added to the bill will not tip any further. Some will, but most will be done tipping at that point.

    CmdrShepard ,

    I believe you made the argument stating that this is going to reduce server’s wages and if these fees aren’t going to employees and its not the business owner keeping them, then where could that money possibly be going?

    SCB ,

    No I said people wanting to move servers to a set hourly wage would reduce their wages.

    CmdrShepard ,

    But where’s the logic and reason in this opinion? The other guy is “making assumptions” by saying this will improve conditions when they don’t have to beg for tips, and here you’re saying their wages will go down without any facts or evidence immediately after your snarky analogy about the sun’s position. Ridiculous.

    SCB , (edited )

    That’s not the point I was making though. If the servers are tipped less due to this policy (the other person’s claim) and make less money, they’re likely to quit because serving has extremely high turnover anyway

    However -

    Servers regularly are tipped above “target percentages.” This is a fact - especially once you consider places with low cost-per-plate (diners etc). If you pay them 15% of total sales or whatever you’re essentially capping tips at 15%, lowering their wages.

    Demonbooker ,

    Bold of you to assume that’s going to the servers and not straight into the owners pocket.

    ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

    I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge.

    OP does not seem to be assuming any such thing.

    SCB ,

    It’s likely going to bussers/hosts/associated non-cook BOH

    AnUnusualRelic ,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    Not being from the US, I’m not familiar with the practices there. What kind of shells are suitable for kids? Is 12 necessary? Or is 20 sufficient?

    glimse ,

    There’s a MILLION things to make fun of our country about and you chose this one that’s not even related? You’re the internet equivalent of a middle schooler who blurts out Family Guy quites in every conversation. Get new material!

    newthrowaway20 ,

    You sound 10 times more ridiculous than that other guy

    glimse ,

    “Hurr durr school shootings” is top tier comedy

    McTavern ,

    20 bucks, even for LA, is pretty steep for a kids meal.

    PraiseTheSoup , (edited )

    “Kids shells” almost certainly refers to a basic pasta dish, “shells and cheese”. It’s just macaroni and cheese but with shell pasta instead. And the bill denoting “kids” likely means it’s a smaller portion than usual. Quite possibly the cheapest item on the menu to produce. The price for this item is insane.

    I’m not sure what you’re asking with the 12 or 20.

    Edit: ok guys I got the joke, thanks for the subtle hints

    intensely_human ,

    It can be hard to gauge what people mean sometimes

    Getawombatupya ,

    You only need three shells

    anarchrist ,

    Lol this guy doesn’t know how to use the shells!

    Waldowal ,
    @Waldowal@lemmy.world avatar

    “We want to charge you more, but we want to make sure you blame our wait staff for it.”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the QR code sends you to a website bitching about “the current administration”.

    LordOfTheChia ,

    From the site they link to:

    What About Tips?

    If customers have exceptional service, we encourage them to tip our employees at the percentage or amount they feel comfortable with.

    Maybe they should change the “Suggested Tips” with “Had exceptional service? Feel free to add a tip.” and start at 5%

    Also, they should be clear if all or part of the “service charge” goes towards employee salaries.

    From:

    www.jonandvinnys.com/service-charge

    squaresinger ,

    What is this nonsense? I mean, since the customers are the only source of income for a restaurant, of course the customers pay for the wages.

    But why hide that behind obscure markups (that’s all a service charge/tip is)? Why not just price the food 18% higher and drop the service charge?

    That way, the restaurant earns the same money, but the customers actually know what they are going to pay and the restaurant visit doesn’t end on a down note when paying.

    MDKAOD ,

    You’re stating the obvious. The owners are making a political statement.

    tony , (edited )

    People look at the menu, decide the prices are reasonable and eat. They then get hit with an 18% service charge and (in the US) a 20% tip on top.

    The restaurant could increase their prices by 18%, but then people would decide to eat elsewhere. Of course they’ll do that anyway after being hit with all the charges, but the owner thinks it’s worth it to get the custom once.

    ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

    Wild that somebody would decide $22.25 is reasonable for chicken wings. Maybe for 100 of them …

    tony ,

    They seem to be massively overcharging, which makes the whole thing a lot wilder. At those prices they could afford to pay their staff well and abolish both tips and service charge…

    Suspect the owner is just a knob.

    nan ,
    @nan@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    It’s in LA, everything is expensive and well is very relative. Minimum wage is almost $17.

    Halosheep ,

    Why would you tip when the restaurant just pre-charged an 18% tip? They say it isn’t a tip but it goes to the employees so, unless the service staff was beyond exemplary, just don’t tip. It’s less than I would have anyway.

    squaresinger ,

    I wouldn’t tip on that either.

    watcher ,

    Does anyone now if the restaurant pays different taxes on food/drinks sold and tip/service fees?

    Tkrun42 ,

    In Washington (everywhere is different) a service fee is taxed as income to the restaurant. A restaurant is not taxed on tips. It’s better for the restaurant to not do a service fee (less taxes) than tips

    If a Washington restaurant is charging a service fee, it has to be posted. The verbiage has to say how it’s being used/if the restaurant is taking any portion

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