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higher wages for the servers... by the customers. Fnbs

Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So… We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn’t a grammatical horror to read]

isdfoa ,

Did they charge you 3.75 for being an LA woman? 😂😂

Kinglink ,

I tip twenty most places. Easy to calculate and fair.

I see this and they have gotten my tip. If you work there and are upset by that, then you need to find another job because the company is stealing your tips no matter what. And I personally won’t return, because it’s never the best restaurants who pull this shit.

Similarly if a company puts automatic gratuity on my bill that’s the tip as well… And usually it’s less than I’d give freely.

If Americans are supposed to tip extra it their choice. If you want to define service charges or something like this, then you’ve made your choice. Greedy fucks trying to hide these extra charges need to stop. I’ll pay more for food on a menu if that’s what it takes but trying to sneak it is bullshit.

j891319 ,

More than 10% service charge is unacceptable already where I am. Let alone asking for a tip on top.

happyhippo ,

Oh, please help me on this.

I’m Italian and going on a trip to the western US in less than two weeks, and still haven’t understood how to behave wrt tipping/service charge.

In my previous trips to the US, before this nonsense was automatically added to the bill, I would tip between 15 and 20% depending on my level of satisfaction with the waiting staff.

What should I do now, when visiting places auto-charging a service fee?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

NormPR ,

Most places still don’t do this. Just look out for it but you probably won’t run into it. I would say that these days 20% is kind of the new 15%.

happyhippo ,

Ok, thanks!

ingeanus , (edited )

As someone in the Eastern US (grain of salt there), this rarely occurs but if it does it is usually when a place serves a large group (justified as the extra difficulty for serving so many people at once). If I saw this applied in another situation I would 100% consider that a tip, give them nothing, and never eat there again. If it was applied when I went in a large group I’d say it can go both ways, but I’d definitely not go back there with lots of people again because it feels like its an attempt at fleecing the customer for more than the trouble is actually worth. Alternatively I might tip less, taking the 18% into account already as a tip. Overall, I’d say it’s bullshit and a good proportion of the people I know would agree.

Hope your trip goes well

happyhippo ,

Thanks! Seems a reasonable approach

NiiicePants ,

If they’re auto-charging it, don’t tip any extra on top. Check every receipt because in many places you’ll see they automatically add gratuity. This place is definitely shady for adding it as a “service fee” and then still putting suggested tip amount afterwards. I would say do not feel guilty and do not think twice. Service fee implies that it paid for the service.

DarkDarkHouse ,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

With any luck, this becomes widespread and ends tipping culture.

happyhippo ,

Let’s hope so, as someone who’s not used to it, I find it quite confusing and not really transparent. Plus it’s kind of a guilt trip every time. I would take a higher overall bill which covers staff salaries any day. Must also be much better for service workers as they’ll know they’ll be able to pay THEIR bills, whether the business is doing good or not.

happyhippo ,

Thanks!

drifty ,
@drifty@sopuli.xyz avatar

I see no reason to tip at all in most cases and ask them to remove the service charge or it’s equivalent from my bill. I get eye-rolls and looks sometimes but I’m not obligated to pay anything above the charge for my food lmao

ThirdNerd ,
@ThirdNerd@lemmy.world avatar

Since the receipt says the 18% “helps facilitate a higher living base wage for all our employees”, then that’s already the tip. So I would write the word “ZERO” on the tip line, and never return to that restaurant.

I’ve already stopped going to anywhere that:

  1. Pulls stuff like this, or
  2. Wants me to input a “tip” for fast food (which includes coffee shops - looking at you, Starbucks) and other places that don’t use the traditional waitstaff model for pampering and serving your table, or
  3. Makes me input a tip up front before I get “service” or even product.

All of the above also means I’m eating a lot less garbagey and/or overpriced food-stuffs from restaurants these days. Better health. More money in my pocket. Higher quality food.

stappern ,

all this tip nonsense would keep me away from restaurants. luckly none of this shit here where i live.

CrayonRosary ,

All wages are paid by customers. Where do you think the money to pay them comes from? Heaven?

The underhanded and sneaky part is that the menu prices are a lie. If they want to pay a decent wage to their employees, good on them, but they should just raise all menu prices by 18% instead of surprising you later.

BigDiction ,

Kids pasta shells are already $16.25. I don’t think they can raise them any more.

MNByChoice ,

Of course they can raise prices higher.

Sadly, there have been studies (too lazy to find a link) that indicate being sneaky like this, instead of raising prices, leads to a better reaction from customers.

partizan ,

if by better reaction you mean never ever return there, then for sure…

Kinglink ,

You nailed it. It’s artificially deflated prices, and dishonest…

Would be the last time I visited them.

DarkDarkHouse ,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Upvoted, but just want to say that the payment usually goes customer -> owner -> employee. Don’t let the owners trick anyone into thinking that someone other than themerlves are responsible for paying employees.

CrayonRosary ,

Why though? Why does that asshole get to decide how much the cook makes, and his much the server makes? Why do I get no say in it? After all, they’re making and serving food for me, not the owner. I should be allowed to negotiate with the cook and the server and write up a contract we all agree to. The owner gets a cut, too, for providing the space, and paying for the ingredients, but the cook and server pay him out of the money they make. Don’t forget the dishwasher. He rents the dishes to the cook.

I realized this sounds very silly and weird, but that’s exactly how contracting works. You directly pay who you interact with for the work they are offering, and if their work requires good or services from other people, they pay them.

Why not run a restaurant like a hair salon where a cook rents a time slot and a part of the kitchen. And the server is like hiring a private courier.

Again, its silly. I’m just saying… The whole customer -> owner -> employee relationship you seem to hold sacred is totally arbitrary. It’s a system some men with capital invented thousands of years ago. Why is it necessarily good?

DarkDarkHouse ,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Nobody’s saying it’s good, I’m saying it’s usual. Partly because it’s simpler in this situation, but you’re right to point out alternative models. Heck, where I’m from tipping is an alternative model.

mrsgreenpotato , (edited )

This is bonkers. Just include it in the price… I would definitely refuse it and have done it one time, when it was not clearly stated in the menu that service will be added. The waiter claimed it is “a standard fee”. No, it’s not and should never be.

Exusia , (edited )
@Exusia@lemmy.world avatar

Found it by the “helens shazzy” www.jonandvinnys.com/menu I don’t live in LA so everything I see is based solely on the website. I read zero google reviews.l and just dove right in. TLdr -op you got finessed. Stop eating here my guy.

It seems by their website that fee is ONLY mentioned on the wine page (also based on this receipt and op statement, this fee is EXCLUSIVE to wine buyers for some reason) where they also charge a $50 corkage fee (most normal restaurants are 20-40), and also stock rotates “so frequently we can’t maintain an updated list” which seems silly, but maybe stock at all 3 locations changes often enough that this really would would be a pain. The restaurant itself is…all over the place. Italian, and breakfast foods? But also there’s Helen’s Winery attached? And on weekends they act as a bakery? And they have “pizza classes” for $650? Idk they have several “sister” type restaurants that are either owned by the same owner or its some kind of franchising thing, but they’re all equally VERY expensive for the food you get. Very upscale. For example [buttermilk pancakes, salted butter, maple syrup 16.25] compared to IHOP “chicken and pancakes” for $14 where you get not just 2 pancakes and butter, but 2 drumsticks. ADDITIONALLY on the Wine page “Modifications are politely declined.” what does this even mean? No changes to wine? Or no modifications to your MENU? Dawg if I’m paying you 20.50 for a rigatoni, you’re not putting “broccolini” in it.This shit ain’t mom’s house where I go to bed hungry if I don’t like it. I sit at the big kids table and get a big kid fork.

For those just reading the slip, these are indeed all full dishes (not just single line items), in LA where everything costs more. Overall 0/10 I wouldn’t eat here based on all this above, before even being infuriated by the “we pass the bill to you” shtick. I’m mildly infuriated just reading through this website.

ZarK ,

WTH is a corkage fee?

FitzNuggly ,

A few charged for opening a bottle of wine. It used to only be charged if you brought your own bottle to the restaurant.

ZarK ,

How are they supposed to sell wine without opening the bottle? Is it optional? Can I open it myself instead?

FitzNuggly ,

In most places its not legal to serve yourself alcohol you brought to the restaurant yourself. So as a compromise many restraunt owners will allow you to bring a bottle of wine that they dont carry, and then charge you a fee to serve it to you. This means they are staying within the law with respect to liquor laws.

For example where I it is illegal to give away alcohol tor free. If a restaurant serves it to you, even if you purchased it before hand, they would be serving it for free and thus a violation of the liquor laws; hence the corkage fee which allows restaurants to so serve you your wine within the law.

www.touchbistro.com/blog/corkage-fee/

ZarK ,

Right, I finally got it now. I thought a customer had been charged this fee on top of their bottle of wine, but I see now that “corkage fee” is just something that was found on their wine menu, and then it makes sense with your context. Thanks!

tapdattl ,

Also by making it a service fee instead of a tip, management and the owners are able to tale part of it. Tips legally have to go to the employees, service fees can go into the owner’s pockets.

pivot_root ,

The service they’re giving you is information. Specifically, information on where to never eat again.

I hate tipping culture, but this is just on another level of bullshit. I’ll begrudgingly subsidize a server’s wage, but there ain’t no way I’m about to help line the pockets of the greedy fucks who refuse to pay a living wage.

ebenixo ,

How about businesses pay their fucking employees? What a concept

Lonnie123 ,

Isnt that what they are doing here in theory? (assuming they arent just keeping it and not paying them higher wages)

At the very least there should be no tip option since thats what the service fee should be doing, but in theory this is what everyone online appears to want… higher prices and better pay for the employees (unless everyone really just wants the same prices, no tipping, and higher pay for the employees)

ebenixo ,

Thry should raise prices and pay the employee higher wages. All this other bullshit is just that

Lonnie123 ,

Its a bit of bullshittery (again, assuming all that money goes to the staff here), but ultimately its the same thing as raising the menu prices 18%. My hunch is that people would scoff at the prices if they listed them on the menu and wouldnt go there, so they do this as a way to offset that.

Viking_Hippie ,

Yeah, people would be less likely to order food there if they knew that everything on the menu is more expensive than advertised, imagine that! It’s almost like people don’t being swindled under obviously false pretenses!

Lonnie123 ,

I just mean to say that what people SAY they want, at least online, (better pay/benefits for employees, no more tipping) is at odds with what they actually expect and will tolerate to see on the menu. This is done in a very shitty, maybe even illegal way, but it does draw the direct line from the higher cost of the food to the higher pay for the staff.

They also have the tip option which adds an even further layer of BS to it.

Im not supporting this in any way but it is a way to break it down for customers to show them without tips this is how much extra it would be.

WarmSoda ,

And just how are they going to be able to pay thier employees Mr smartguy? From the crazy over priced dishes they serve? Huh? What, from the $650 pizza making course they offer? You think they could have four sister restaurants and have any profits? Please, inform us where they could possibly get enough money to pay thier employees real life adult wages.

ebenixo ,

Not my problem close the restaurant if you can’t function without bait and switch tactics with your menu. The answer to your problem isn’t shady business tactics. Maybe due to the mismanageement of the economy and inflation restaurants aren’t viable business ideas anymore. As the country country increasingly turns to authoritarianism as an answer to it’s failing economic system you are going to see more similar things that once was viable is no longer.

WarmSoda ,

Glad you didn’t bother to read past the first couple of words.

HawlSera ,

This is a fascist tactic to turn people against the servers and shame those who want higher wages

tyfi ,

Huh? It’s just greedy owners. Don’t overthink it

passivelnk ,

“fascist tactic”??? What’s up with the '70s commie speak?

scurry ,

When I worked delivery, at multiple places, we did in fact not see a dime of this fee. Got chewed out by customers a couple of times over it though.

_sideffect ,

Wait, $17 for Lettuce??

overzeetop ,
@overzeetop@lemmy.world avatar

What the devil?

Gork ,

Insert copypasta

DharkStare ,

Why don’t they just raise their prices a bit? Adding a “not” tip to the bill just seems odd.

RandallFlagg ,

Because then the owner can’t advertise a lower price for the food and then sneak in the hidden “service fee” at the end.

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

That should be considered bait and switch.

Viking_Hippie ,

It’s pretty much the dictionary definition of bait and switch fraud, yeah. Whether it de jure is in a legal system so obviously disfavoring workers in the vast majority of cases is another matter entirely, though 😮‍💨

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