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dingus ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t get it.

People wanted another Bethesda game.

They got what they wanted.

I said in 2008, after playing the first Fallout game by Bethesda instead of Black Isle: “Only Bethesda could manage to make a post apocalyptic prostitute boring.”

They’ve always been boring, they’ve always had ugly character models, and the writing has always been bad. You get what you paid for. A Bethesda game.

pimento64 ,

Not always, n’wah

dingus ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Skyrim is literally one of their worst-written games and only has a saving grace of a wide open world that is interesting to explore.

Personal opinion, Morrowind was still boring, but had the best writing, best style, and required the most from the player. Morrowind was peak Bethesda and that was over 20 years ago.

hoodatninja ,
@hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

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    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Morrowind is a role-playing game, and in this role, you needed to be able to do things like research the world you’re in to figure out what to do, not have a rando who has a big fancy exclamation point above him telling you exactly where to go with a waypoint. It’s just different ways to approach the game. One is functionally role-playing within the world you exist in, and the other is “Fuck all this, I just want to play a game, I don’t want to think hard.”

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    Poggervania ,
    @Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

    I don’t think the dude was insinuating that they thought people were “brain-dead” because they enjoyed Skyrim more than Morrowind - it’s literally just the way the games are.

    Like you said yourself, waypoints were added for a reason. Morrowind can be pretty bullshit at times with directions, and the game does straight-up lie to you a few times, but you also can’t deny that Skyrim is literally telling you to go that arrow on your compass for every single quest. One’s not better than the other, but with Morrowind, you do get the sense of being on an adventure since you have to figure stuff out and encounter weird people on the way, whereas with Skyrim it’s waaaaay easier to get into because you can legitimately turn your brain off and let it relax a bit.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    One’s not better than the other,

    No, but one is genuinely “role-playing” while another is… not.

    zephr_c ,

    Really. You’re gonna pull the people like different things argument after telling this person that they’re just pretending to enjoy Morrowind? That’s some next level hypocrisy right there.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

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    zephr_c ,

    I get it. That’s easy to do in this kind of place. At least you realized when someone pointed it out. That’s better than a lot of people would do.

    CaptainEffort ,

    if everyone loved it they wouldn’t have changed it

    Damn I wish this were true, but unfortunately it’s just not.

    hoodatninja , (edited )
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    CaptainEffort ,

    That companies will change things, even when people love those things?

    You should look into dmc Devil May Cry, or any other number of failed entries in well established successful series that completely departed from what people enjoyed.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    CaptainEffort ,

    Lol what? When did I assert that? I said that your comment, that a company would never change something audiences loved, was unfortunately not true.

    hoodatninja , (edited )
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    CaptainEffort ,

    My first comment literally quoted you saying that lmao c’mon man

    hoodatninja , (edited )
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    CaptainEffort ,

    You said you never said that. You literally did. Unless you claimed it to be Opposite Day in an earlier comment I don’t think there’s much room for disagreement.

    Either way, I think I’m done. It’s clear that you have no interest in actually talking about this. Just know that companies are more than willing to change things, even when people love them.

    I’m sorry my one sentence off hand comment caused this to be a whole thing.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    CaptainEffort ,

    You:

    if everyone loved it they wouldn’t have changed it

    Me:

    Damn I wish this were true, but unfortunately it’s just not.

    Then after some back and forth, You:

    I never said that

    The full quote btw:

    I more meant to imply that if everyone loved it they wouldn’t have changed it, clearly there was a demand

    Which again, just isn’t how things work.

    There’s your quotes. Did that jog your memory?

    TWeaK ,

    The roles played are different.

    Remmock ,

    I don't know why people pretend they actually enjoyed sitting there deciphering all the text/journals/notes/etc. to get directions and navigate the world and enjoyed it.

    This was you saying the way you don’t like is wrong.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    Remmock ,

    Eh.

    FinalRemix ,

    Can’t have rose-tinted glasses if you’re currently playing it as OpenMW.

    Espi ,

    I played Morrowind after playing Skyrim and I found it much better.

    It’s much less accessible, but the writing is actually good and it has the best ‘R’ in RPG of any game I have ever played. The character progression is amazing and there are so many fun ways to build a character.

    flucksy_bango , (edited )

    🔥Hot take🔥

    Eta: emojis, for that hot take

    SwampYankee ,

    Starfield at launch is more compelling than Fallout 4 or Skyrim, but falls short of Morrowind. It’s in the mix somewhere alongside Oblivion and Fallout 3, IMO.

    Ertebolle ,

    I think the fundamental problem is that people had different expectations for a game set in space, both because Bethesda stoked them (all of that talk of having the idea decades ago / first new franchise in however many years / Microsoft bought the company just to get it as an exclusive / etc) and because after No Man's Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game's problems and create something richer + more seamless.

    In retrospect, if they'd simply sold it as "Skyrim in Space," admitted to the limitations up front - same underlying engine, limited amount of variety to procedurally-generated content, loading screens instead of seamless takeoff/landing, etc - and not pretended that it was something new, the response would have probably been much more uniformly positive.

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    I think you’re on the right track, but I think it’s also because recent games did better with similar ideas. People shat all over Mass Effect Andromeda, but it hid loading screens behind interplanetary and FTL travel that was actually visualized. In my brain, I know they’re cutscenes to cover for loading data, but it’s enough to take you out of it being a “game” and allowing you to suspend your disbelief. It’s hard to suspend disbelief when there’s a loading screen constantly in front of you.

    HelixTitan ,

    Yeah, but you can do the same thing in Star Field, just takes a bit of learning. You get the exact same cut scenes for loading even, ala Mass Effect. The reality is the game offers fast travel, as essentially jumping 5 times and loading and seeing the cut scenes is the same thing as just loading to the end.

    This game feels more like a test, do you actually want to explore, or do you want to hop point to point for the quest. You can do either. It just seems to offer fast travel as the first option, but you can take the slow way around too

    RightHandOfIkaros ,

    But they kind of already did say most of that stuff.

    They said long before the game came out that there was no seamless takeoff/landing. They said they upgraded their Creation Engine for Starfield, AFAIK they never said it was entirely new.

    Either way, I like it. Its fun.

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Either way, I like it. Its fun.

    And that’s great! I think we’re mostly talking about the people who are whinging about it. People who are enjoying it, let em enjoy it.

    RightHandOfIkaros ,

    The only people I have seen complaining about it are here on Lemmy. Which honestly, the more time I spend here, I almost feel like its more negative than Reddit was. Maybe its the low population, maybe its bot astroturfing, I dont know. But its really unfortunate this place has really gone downhill.

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Top front page post on reddit right now is complaining that people are misrepresenting why people are disappointed with the game. Basically, arguing that the game is disappointing and that people should be accepting critiques of it.

    old.reddit.com/…/people_are_dishonestly_misrepres…

    This is the third post on the front page of reddit. Lots of people are complaining.

    JSens1998 ,

    Yo, your old.reddit link is now redirecting to reddit.com. Did those dirty bastards remove old.reddit?

    Ertebolle ,

    Hmm, I missed that about seamless takeoff/landing. But as @dingus mentions, you can use cutscenes and animations and other things to make that feel more immersive / continuous even if they are temporarily dropping you out of the engine.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    I just want Spacerim tho

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Skyrim mods to the rescue?

    Viking_Hippie ,

    Closest I can get you is “Spacerimming: An Anal Odyssey”, will that do?

    SpaceNoodle ,

    No but I’ll hold on to that for now thanks

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    dingus , (edited )
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Everyone recalls, but they also recall Hello Games spending the next several years fixing the game and fleshing out to be closer to their original vision, which is what they were selling to people: their vision. They should have been selling the game, not the vision, but they took their fuckup on the chin and risked a lot. There was no gaurantee they would appease gamers and they essentially had no income except for continued sales of No Mans Sky.

    Also NMS was Hello Games’ first real big game ever, so you can give them a little slack for having no idea what they’re doing.

    Bethesda is a 30+ year old juggernaut who waits for modders to fix their games and has been re-releasing their last successful game for a full decade now.

    Hello Games made NMS better because they felt bad. Bethesda made Skyrim better to re-release it and get more money.

    Also, Hello Games is just 26 people and Bethesda is 420 people and owned by Microsoft.

    hoodatninja ,
    @hoodatninja@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    I think the difference here is Hello Games took a big risk taking 2-3 years to fix it while asking for nothing more in exchange. What they did is basically unheard of because its hard to pay people without known future income.

    Do you think Bethesda will take 2-3 years to “fix” this? I don’t.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    Bethesda is 420 people

    So what you’re saying is that they smoke a lot of weed? Would explain a few things tbh 🤔

    Cornelius_Wangenheim , (edited )

    The setting lowered my expectations. Modern sci-fi has this weird obsession with being sterile and boring. Compared to the magical fantasy of Elder Scrolls and the zany retro-futurism of Fallout, it was guaranteed to be boring.

    theterrasque ,

    after No Man’s Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game’s problems and create something richer + more seamless

    That was basically what I hoped for. NMS type game, but with Skyrim/ fallout level modding, stories, quests and deeper meaning to it.

    And with better procgen. They have the manpower and expertise to do that.

    I haven’t bought the game yet, waiting to see the initial responses. Now… I’ll probably pick it up on sale sometime, when bugs are fixed and there’s solid mods.

    drcobaltjedi ,

    I mean, it is extremely polished. I have encountered a total of 2 bugs over my entire playtime. By this time in fallout 4 I lost track of the number of bugs I saw, things jittering atound, people’s faces acting wonky, nome of that here.

    greenskye ,

    Honestly I still think waiting to buy a Bethesda game is smart if you aren’t a huge fan or something. Skyrim was pretty crap at launch and all the praise it gets now is mostly referring to Skyrim well after launch when patches and mods turned it into something good.

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    I played Skyrim at launch and it was great.

    Mods added another level to the game but I can happily play the game without.

    uwe ,

    I’m fine with their writing and their overall gameplay. It’s just that they managed to make space feel boring and tiny. All those little areas in-between the loading screens really don’t feel like a vast space opera at all.

    Also I wish they would just invest into some new game mechanics. Proc gen planets look great and exploring them could have been so much fun 🥲

    FMT99 ,

    Yeah one of the best parts of the game, the planets look great. There’s just not much to do on them.

    GrammatonCleric ,
    @GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks Todd Howard 🙏

    Absolutemehperson ,

    “He can’t keep getting away with it!!”

    tdawg ,

    As an enjoyer of both Oblivion and Morrowind I’m going to say that I think it’s more likely that the people at Bethesda who were key at making their past games good have either been promoted beyond their positions of expertise or simply left for greener pastures. Bethesda hasn’t always been trash, and people are quick to forget transgressions from nearly a decade ago (yes! It’s been that long!)

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s been 21 years since Morrowind, and 17 years since Oblivion. Been longer than a decade. Two in Morrowind’s case. I would put Morrowind down as “peak Bethesda,” and their games have been slowly turning to crap since. I agree, I think they lost a lot of key players who worked for them, and they’ve never been able to regain their footing.

    karmiclychee ,

    21 years since Morrowind

    🫠

    Balinares ,

    They’ve always been boring

    Strongly disagreed. Pre-Oblivion their games were great. Hoping for a return to engrossing stories taking place in a rich, expansive universe was not entirely unreasonable.

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Morrowind was their best, but I would say 21 years on, it’s really tough to be like “Yeah, this time they’ll get back to their roots.” No, it’s time to move on. All the people who made those games what they were have retired, moved on, or died.

    Balinares ,

    Well, I’d argue that Daggerfall was their best game, story-wise, but Daggerfall is even older. And that’s the point, isn’t it? More time passed between Skyrim and Starfield than between Daggerfall and Oblivion. A lot can change in so many years, and I do believe that hoping for something new was not entirely unreasonable.

    Then again, the keyword there is entirely, isn’t it. I personally didn’t expect very much from Starfield, and, also personally, I can’t say I fully understand the amount of hype surrounding it.

    Cabrio ,

    They could have given us something old, or something new, but they didn’t. Just the same shit as last time, wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

    bandario ,
    @bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Surely there’s an element there of rose tinted glasses? All of us were 21 years younger. There were less games coming out and they were harder to get for many of us.

    You didn’t need to work so damn much to keep your head above water, or were below working age altogether. It was a lot easier to find the time to really immerse yourself in the lore and it required a lot of reading both in-game and out.

    It was also all new to us, truly novel experiences with every leap in gameplay, graphics or mechanics being applied to brains that weren’t completely immune to dopamine and over-stimulated constantly.

    I played Ultima VII so much that my friends and I would quote the game to eachother at school…we were fully immersed in it and it was bloody huge for its day.

    To be honest I barely even try with these type of games anymore. I know it isn’t going to satisfy me. I tend to enjoy mastering movement mechanics and skill based competitive games. Sure, they also release the same game every year repackaged, but there’s usually enough of a tweak to movement mechanics and gun physics that it’s a challenge to get gud again and I get a real kick out of genuine competition.

    I played Starfield for several hours on the weekend and I do my best not to judge too harshly given what I’ve said above but I feel as though there will never be a game ever again that grabs me enough to make that genre worth paying the money. It’s me that’s changed moreso than the lore being watered down. “Damn you, Avatar!”

    CaptainEffort ,

    I grew up with Skyrim and mod it religiously - that’s where my nostalgia comes from. And even I’ll say that Morrowind completely blows it out of the water on nearly every front.

    Skyrim’s a lot more accessible, and I love it for that, but that’s about it.

    SwampYankee ,

    I’d recommend you go back and read some critical reviews of Arena and Daggerfall. The complaints are exactly the same: the graphics engine is out of date, the characters are lifeless, the writing is just okay, the story is shallow, etc. Bethesda has scaled back the RPG mechanics since Morrowind, for sure, but their games ultimately have the same Bethesda DNA, for better or worse. For what it’s worth, I’m enjoying Starfield at launch much more than Fallout 4 even now, updated, expanded and modded.

    Balinares ,

    My friend, I don’t need to go read the video game history about Daggerfall: I wrote some of it. :)

    And I stand by my statement. That game was the height of storytelling that came out of Bethesda in a bunch of small but important ways, although Morrowind is not far behind, in a somewhat different fashion. And there is a definite shift in the series from the moment Ted Peterson left the team. Patently, not a shift I am personally very fond of, but to each her own.

    SwampYankee ,

    I can’t remember all that well, I was a child at the time, lol. I go back to Morrowind once in a while, and I do find the writing to be more immersive, as opposed to the more recent games where it’s a series of linear, ham-fisted novellas. So far, Starfield seems much improved over Fallout 4 or Skyrim in that regard, but I’m not all that far in.

    Jerbil , (edited )
    @Jerbil@hexbear.net avatar

    deleted_by_author

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    UnverifiedAPK ,

    I think we were all expecting them to rebuild the engine sometime between fallout 4 and now instead of just duct tapping a flashlight (new lighting system) to it.

    It’s such a bad engine the Phil Spencer came out and said every QA tester at Microsoft is working on Starfield:

    gamesradar.com/every-qa-tester-at-microsoft-is-wo…

    example ,

    is that because Microsoft doesn’t have QA anymore?

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Consumer Windows is just an endless Early Access release now.

    SwampYankee ,

    The Creation Engine itself is just Gamebryo with a flashlight duct taped to it. IMO the engine is a huge part of what makes Bethesda games so fascinatingly unique.

    Awoo ,

    The engine should be rebuilt from the ground up though. It’s full of problems and it’s fundamentally dated, for example one of the most obvious things a new version of the engine should include is making the world completely seamless - no more loading instances, no more loading screens entering interiors, etc etc. But all the other problems with the engine need addressing. And they can do a huge amount to make it better for the mod scene if they rebuild.

    Continually slapping more and more fixes on this engine fundamentally ignores the fact it is impossible for it to get around several issues it has at its core without a rewrite.

    SwampYankee ,

    This engine is already great for modding, but I suppose it can always be better. Do you know any technical details about why the worlds can’t be made seamless? There were open cities mods for Oblivion & Skyrim, so it seems like it’s probably technically possible. Seems like that may be more of a compromise related to memory allocation on consoles.

    I dunno, I don’t expect Bethesda to write a new engine from scratch, no one does that. They made New Atlantis seamless to an extent I haven’t seen in previous Bethesda games, so as long as they keep making incremental improvements, I’ll be satisfied.

    Awoo ,

    Do you know any technical details about why the worlds can’t be made seamless?

    I don’t know the technical details but I know that when you attempt to add new map area to any existing map (for example the overworld) the physics engine does not engage for those spaces. You have to create new map areas for anything new.

    There are also hardcoded limits to the number of entities that can be loaded in-engine at any one time. When you go over the alotted number of NPCs for example it starts spawning them in the sky, this causes the infamous flying horse bug everyone has seen in modded Skyrim when they’ve added too many new NPCs to zones. I think newer games have had some bandaids slapped on the engine to increase this but it’s still there.

    Open Cities works because the cell already exists, so they just took everything in the city zone and moved it into the existing world cell, which is identical in size. So there’s no problem with this causing issues. This can’t be done for a lot of buildings (to create interior/exterior) because of various issues such as NPCs not knowing where their house is unless it’s a defined place you go through a loading screen on, so taking houses and slapping them into open world would completely break scripting for their daily routines, same for every building in the game. Some of them are tardis design too, bigger on the inside than the actual building is on the outside.

    Sinister Bot ,
    @Sinister@hexbear.net avatar

    Well a lotta games are “in development”, doesn’t mean that they get developed in that time.

    ImpossibleRubiksCube ,

    Look, when I said “another Bethesda game”, I was pretty specifically referring to either the Quake reboot, or Prey 2. I don’t know how everybody misunderstood that.

    I thought it was obvious, even.

    NegativeLookBehind ,
    @NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social avatar

    Cmon guys stop being mean to Todd

    dingus ,
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.

    PipedLinkBot ,

    Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/watch?v=hFcLyDb6niA

    Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

    I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

    Papercrane ,

    I didn’t play starfield but watched around 2 hours of gameplay. The story was kinda nonsense, the gameplay I can respect but I know it wouldn’t be for me. Like everyone says it’s fallout in space, but it seems like it takes itself much more serious

    PillowTalk420 ,
    @PillowTalk420@lemmy.world avatar

    With how many call backs, jokes and references I’ve seen in the main plot: it doesn’t take itself too seriously. Half of the jokes have been directly related to the lack of dialogue options and having a silent protagonist.

    FMT99 ,

    I wish it took itself more serious. It’s tongue in cheek non stop but the jokes rarely land.

    PillowTalk420 ,
    @PillowTalk420@lemmy.world avatar

    Fully agree. Lots of jokes; they’re not very funny, tho. IDK… Maybe it will get more interesting the further I get. I still wanna check out Neon (the cyberpunk city) and do deep space exploration (can’t even get out there yet). I’ve been to a museum ran by the Starship Troopers faction that gives a ton of exposition on the lore and it was a chore to stay awake through all that.

    bennieandthez ,
    @bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    It’s “fallout in space” but without the stuff that makes fallout good.

    UnverifiedAPK ,

    “fallout in space but without the stuff that makes fallout good.”

    So Fallout 4 in space.

    Poggervania ,
    @Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

    I’m not surprised. I haven’t seen vids or played Starfield, but just judging by how Fallout 4 and Skyrim play, I was gonna expect the game to get old and boring really quick between the bland gameplay and milquetoast writing of those two games.

    Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Morrowind were probably their last good games, with Morrowind being Bethesda at their absolute best imo.

    GigglyBobble ,

    I'm quite sure you're in the minority judging Skyrim as boring.

    PillowTalk420 ,
    @PillowTalk420@lemmy.world avatar

    I can get the sentiment about the combat being uninspired and a bit bland, and things being formulaic but… There is still something that draws me in. I really have no words for what it is, but somehow these games suck me in despite their problems and “boring” mechanics.

    Poggervania ,
    @Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

    Probably. I haven’t played any of the DLCs, but I just can’t get into Skyrim nowadays because I get quickly bored of it all. The only time I managed to complete all of the quests and the main quest was back at release, but now whenever I play it feels like a slog to go through a painfully bland world and setting. I usually give up after a few hours of playtime, and now I just haven’t played in years.

    Meanwhile, I was around 30-40 hours into my latest Morrowind playthrough before BG3 dropped, and was putting a fair whack of time into Battlespire, so maybe I’m finally becoming old lol.

    Goblin_Mode ,

    I mean I’m gonna have to agree with the guy though. Skyrim was all but earth shattering… In 2011. Have you tried playing it recently? It feels old and repetitive. There is obviously still some fun to be had and some memorable bits but on the whole it’s just outdated plain and simple.

    I think the vast majority of enjoyment people derive from it is nostalgia driven which I can totally respect, but that only lasts for like 4-5 hours once a year tops. I feel like a new player who never touched it in the golden years would likely get bored fast

    GigglyBobble ,

    No, I haven't played it recently. I also don't play Pacman anymore but it still is one of the cornerstones of computer games and a great game. Yes, Skyrim may be bland compared to modern RPGs but so are the others @Poggervania listed.

    Poggervania ,
    @Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

    You say that, but you also have younger people who play Bethesda’s older games like Morrowind and Daggerfall to this day and are able to enjoy them in their own right.

    It’s hard to put into words because another poster was right - there’s still some sort of draw to not just Skyrim, but their games in general. It might be nostalgia, it might be the atmosphere, no idea - but when you play the games, it’s just so… blah. Like it’s so close to being good, but they just miss the mark in some capacity.

    Using Morrowind as an example because of how much I like the game, the environment, the atmosphere, and the writing are really well done - but god fucking dammit, I have to game the system in order to maximize my attributes on level up so I don’t die to RNGesus. As a mage, I don’t want to level up Long Blade or Heavy Armor - but I kind of have to because I need more carry weight from Strength and the HP gain from Endurance is not retroactive, so I have to get that to 100 as soon as I can so I don’t die to a sneeze. In Skyrim, they made leaps and bounds in the general combat - which is great, but holy fuck who gives a shit about the world when it effectively goes on pause for you and everybody is as wooden as the trees surrounding them? Fallout 4 is actually a really good gameplay loop and settlements are fun, but I’m not even playing a character - I can say “yes” in three different ways or “not right now” to pretty much every dialogue option and quest, and everybody is “quirky” in the way the cast of The Office is “quirky” it feels like. The writing really misses the mark 90% of the time.

    I think it’s that, at least for me personally, is what makes them boring but still have that draw.

    Goblin_Mode ,

    I’m not denying it’s impact on modern gaming, I’m just saying it’s old. Like it certainly deserves a spot in the gaming hall of fame but it doesn’t really stack up against more modern RPGs. Technology is moving forward and so should games, yet Bethesda is so stuck on Skyrim they have refused to innovate for a comically long time

    SimplyATable ,

    I mean, recently I played skyrim for the first time and it was far from boring

    BigBananaDealer ,
    @BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

    yeah i never thought super mario bros was a good game, maybe in the 80s it was but its just boring and repetive today

    Kuma ,
    @Kuma@lemmy.world avatar

    It depends, I think as unmoded would many say it is boring. The whole game is kinda of a meme even tho it wasn’t supposed to be. like killing a chicken and hell breaks loose, and how sweet rolls are an addiction to all the guards, how they keep saying the same thing and seem to live the same life. All of them could just have been one person (or two because there are female guards too). Some npcs are a bit interesting the first few times but it gets old quick.

    I have played skyrim a lot but it is heavily moded. Every new playthrough do I throw in new quests and places, try a different mix of combat mods and Ai mods to make my enemies actually enemies and not just obstacles, everything to make it less monotone. I tried to play it again last month but my motivation just fell and I never felt like playing again.

    Ser_Salty ,

    I’d say Starfield is in a lot of ways a return to form. So far, none of the actual quests I got from NPCs were as simple as “Go there and kill bandits”, like the majority of quests in Fallout 4. Those proc-gen quests have been relegated to Mission Boards for various factions (and there’s also more variety of them. Beyond killing, you have smuggling missions, cargo transport, passenger transport, surveying and some other stuff). Most of the quests I’ve done so far have also been very interesting, I’ve talked my way out of multiple confrontations/bossfight and I’ve robbed a valuable trophy and bank credentials from a luxury cruise ship with not a single shot fired, just using my cunning, persuasion and a little bit of blackmail and bribery. I keep thinking that I am going to get those “please kill those raiders” quests, like when I got a distress call from somebody having trouble with spacers (this games version of generic raiders or bandits), but instead I had to repair communication satellites and negotiate a mutual defense pact with the settlers of that system. Like, I’m 50+ hours in (yes, genuinely) and the game keeps surprising me with new and interesting content. I feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface of the content available.

    Sure, you can’t completely fuck everything up and go murder everyone in the game like in BG3 or FNV or something, but it is actually a really solid RPG. The writing isn’t as deep, philosophical and politically charged as New Vegas, but it’s good. Way better than Fallout 4s main story (and better than Fallout 3s main story, which secretly sucks.) I actually had some interesting conversations in the game and chuckled quite a few times at some of the responses I could choose. My background and traits actually do come up in conversation, even had one of my traits help me win a persuasion minigame (which is actually quite interesting in this as well). Skills like Persuasion, Intimidation and Bribery actually matter and allow you to finish quests in different ways. I get a little bit angry everytime somebody calls it Fallout 4 in space, because unlike Fallout 4 Starfield is actually a roleplaying game, even if it doesn’t live up to the heights of Baldurs Gate 3. If you’re gonna call it anything in space, Oblivion would probably be the most apt comparison.

    esadatari ,

    bethesda announces game concept.

    people freak.

    bethesda announces game. 

    people hype.

    bethesda starts hyping the game.

    people go fucking nuts hyping the game as a result. their social media team plants those seeds to make it look organic.

    a year or more of speculation occurs.

    todd howard being his little schmuck self comes out and boasts about their new game.

    people lose their god damn minds.

    whispers of shitty gameplay start occurring closer to launch.

    the masses tell those people to fuck off how could they know, dishonest review etc etc.

    the big names in game reviews all review it and give it out of the park amazing reviews.

    people go batshit crazy. people are out in the streets killing their parents for a chance at the new bethesda god game.

    the game is released and is somewhat playable but jesus fuck is it lacking, it’s buggy, and every character looks like they’ve been updated from skyrim graphics of yore. the story sucks. the game play is empty but goddamn is there a lot to explore.

    everyone rushes in like a madman.

    everyone realizes the gameplay sucks.

    people start bitching.

    others say “oh don’t worry, DLC and user created mods will fill the game out nicely.”

    years pass.

    the unpaid modding community pours their heart and soul into making the game not fucking suck.

    after all the DLC has come out (all with mostly positive or mixed reviews on steam) the game will go dark for a year or so.

    todd howard wakes from his capitalist vampire coma needing fresh life force. the blood money of his unsuspecting idiot fans.

    todd howard makes it into the office and says we could make a new game or we can milk this game for the next decade and a half. quick come up with names to rerelease the game under. game of the year edition. complete edition. master edition. elite edition. remastered. remastered complete. anything works!

    over the course of the next three decades, todd howard is fed the blood of bethesda’s fan base.

    he is swollen, like a fat tick upon his harkonen throne, waiting to burst.

    “the people. they call for a NEW game”, he says, a devilish sneer contorts his face.

    and the cycle continues.

    and these fucking idiots. every goddamn time.

    OutlierBlue ,

    This comment is better written than the game itself.

    Crabhands ,
    @Crabhands@lemmy.ml avatar

    That comment or this comment?

    Rekonok ,
    @Rekonok@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Yes

    OutlierBlue ,

    No, the other one.

    PerogiBoi ,
    @PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca avatar

    I enjoyed this display of literary art.

    Seraphin ,
    @Seraphin@pawb.social avatar

    This is one of the greatest comments of all time

    dubyakay ,

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/e7e91d47-af17-4b99-bc31-77ee4a00c5bd.jpeg

    esadatari ,

    holy shit this broke me 10/10

    WereCat ,

    Sixteen times the comment!

    qwertyWarlord ,

    Str8 facts

    eochaid ,
    @eochaid@lemmy.world avatar

    If you like Bethesda games, you’re gonna like this one. If you don’t like Bethesda games, you’re not going to like this one. I don’t know what else to tell you, bud.

    Don’t mistake the bitching of a vocal minority of lemmy/reddit posters and YouTube influencers (who bitch primarily for clicks) as “everyone”. There are actually a lot of people who like these games - myself included - and a lot of them aren’t on any sort of social media. I loved vanilla Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4 and love modded versions even more. I’m having a blast with vanilla Starfield right now - easily dozens of hours over the long weekend. And I’ll probably love modded Starfield even more as well.

    reverendsteveii ,

    Had me in the first 2/3, ngl

    WarmSoda ,

    That’s how these jokes work. Gj

    10_0 ,

    Is it really that bad?

    mayo ,

    No it’s just another video game. The core competency of this developer is dialogue interaction or dialogue puzzles that help create a sense of immersion in a world with lots of RPG mechanics. It is more or less in line with their previous games. There are quite a few tacked on features.

    There’s so much media coverage of video games these days I think it makes it hard to just have them stand on their own merits without having every detail examined and compared across every game that has ever released. People who are spending the money on video games as entertainment will be entertained, but this isn’t a genre defining product and it isn’t a flop either.

    TrousersMcPants ,

    No, I actually like it more than I liked fallout 4 on launch so far. It’s just really popular to call Bethesda games shit on the internet

    peopleproblems ,

    To be honest, they really improved on what they built with F4.

    The outpost mechanic, the ship building (oh my God I live ship building) the exploration, jet packs, missions, etc. It’s exactly what I wanted.

    TrousersMcPants ,

    I haven’t gotten into the outpost and ship building quite yet, but the exploration is way better than I expected from mostly proc-gen worlds

    Amaltheamannen ,

    Only watched like 2 hours of gameplay footage but seems to have learned from the mistakes of Fallout 4 while keeping the fun stuff like legendary items and weapon customization. If you like Bethesda games and sci-fi I think you’ll love it.

    daellat ,

    Having a hard time putting it down but Lemmy seems quite negative on it

    SadTrain ,

    I am having fun with it. The only thing I’ve been super aggravated with is surveying planets. I love the concept, but it kinda sucks having to run thousands of meters to try to hunt down the last little space roach you need for completion. Traversal in general is the game’s weakest aspect. Lemme fly in low orbit to pinpoint where I want to land.

    I ran into some storage issues and I’m working to fix that now. The ship building tool is VERY clunky, but I love the ability to upgrade certain parts to my ship and junk.

    dmrzl ,

    Never even tried surveying as it seemed to be the obvious collectible time waste. Fun as usual lies in the faction missions…

    Cold_Brew_Enema , (edited )

    Lemmy is like Reddit In that the popular thing to do is shit all over a game you haven’t even played. The hivemind circlejerk is real here, too

    WarmSoda ,

    I haven’t seen anyone here shitting on Baulders gate, Armored Core, or even Elden Ring. Seems to just be Starfield.

    And most of the negative responses have been pretty fairly laid out. Not shitting on it.

    totallymojo ,
    @totallymojo@ttrpg.network avatar

    At least I thought so. Refunded after 10 hours on Steam.
    Did not feel like a game from 2023. Did not want to pay that much for that quality.

    Vingst ,
    @Vingst@hexbear.net avatar

    they let you refund over the 2 hours limit?

    totallymojo ,
    @totallymojo@ttrpg.network avatar

    Yes. There is no limit with pre-purchase early access offers I think. Thank god for Steams refund policy. Saved me 100 bucks.

    ace ,

    Personal thoughts - being about 15 hours in; the exploration part is far from exciting, the gunplay is not much improved since Fallout 4, the crafting systems have not really evolved at all, the outpost construction system feels very disconnected from any other gameplay - being a completely optional resource sink more than anything else, the ship construction system is clunky as anything and has a bunch of drawbacks to it, the usability of the UI is mediocre at best - probably slightly worse than the original Skyrim UI, the economy seems completely broken - you’re very obviously meant to have 2-3 digits fewer in your credits than what the game awards you for regular play even without heavy looting, the characters are rather weakly written and seem strangely delayed in reactions to the story, your chosen backstory never has an actual role in gameplay - only been able to skip two 1k credit payments and a “put the cube in the cube hole” puzzle with it so far, etc.
    It’s very much a Bethesda game. I’m definitely going to finish the main story - and probably poke into a bunch of the side content as well, but this is definitely not looking like a game I’ll have more than a single playthrough in.

    I actually ended up bringing out a USB dancepad I’ve got laying about to play with, since I had to do a bunch of on-planet stuff, and standing and drinking tea while waiting through the traversal for those missions felt much nicer.

    drcobaltjedi ,

    No nor is it “buggy” by any real stretch.

    People like to shit on every Bethesda game since they don’t like their brand of RPG. For them roll playing means you can do whatever the fuck you want. Do you want to go off and kill every person in sight, well it’s a bethesda RPG so yeah go for it. Do you want to go into people houses at night and steal all their food and mess up the place? go for it. Do you want to… etc. Hell this idea runs so deeply, there’s a mechanic in oblivion I beat you didn’t know existed, goblin warfare. It’s real, it’s just also buggy.

    Yeah it’s another bethesda RPG, now with space. I’ve been having a blast with the game so far.

    yoink ,
    @yoink@hexbear.net avatar

    I’m about 20 hours in and enjoying it immensely, for what it’s worth

    I think a lot of people had expectations way too high for it, expecting to have a life replacement ala Star Citizen - I didn’t follow any of the marketing, and I’m genuinely enjoying the story and the atmosphere a tonne

    It is very Scifi Fallout (love to pick up trinkets) and imo it’s come out really well

    robot_dog_with_gun ,

    fallout was SF fallout.

    kinda gutted that “pick[ing] up trinkets” is all those games are now

    yoink ,
    @yoink@hexbear.net avatar

    i mean its more than that, I was just making a joke about my need to pick everything up cos there’s a lot of stuff in the game lying around

    moonsnotreal ,
    @moonsnotreal@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Am I the only one who noticed the gun animations are just the fallout 4 ones? Like the pistols use exactly the same animations. I know because I played hundreds of hours of 4.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    I mean, you don’t always have to reinvent the wheel: if 4 achieved realistic-feeling energy weapon animations, why fix what isn’t broken? Third folksy saying.

    CordanWraith ,

    Yeah, Elden Ring for example has tons of DS3 animations. It’s just more sensible to use the existing ones rather than completely remaking the same thing.

    MindSkipperBro12 ,

    Yes but we need to go vertically, not horizontally.

    peopleproblems ,

    you guys really think it’s boring? :/

    scrubbles ,
    @scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

    At this point I don’t trust anyone. Reviewers obviously paid off to give positive reviews, but then just as annoying is all the pure anti Bethesda hate here. I don’t trust anyone to separate their Bethesda love/hate from the review of the actual game.

    I think there was one review that was like “it’s a sci Fi Skyrim in space” and that sounds like it’ll be the most accurate.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    “it’s a sci Fi Skyrim in space”

    Tbh, that DOES sound pretty great IMO 🤷

    Username02 ,

    What is Skyrim but a shadow of Oblivion, which is only a shadow to Morrowind? Hard pass if it’s anything like Skyrim. Stupid puzzles, stupid quests, stupid lore. They treat you like a kindergartener, and you guys like it. 🤷

    stufkes ,

    Accurate summary. But I still think that Skyrim is fun, in a different way. But yeah I wish they’d go back to the actual rpg of the Elder Scrolls.

    barooboodoo ,

    Why don’t you just post your IQ and get it over with 🤷‍♂️

    adj16 ,

    Lmaoooooo

    Absolutemehperson ,

    And that user’s name? Albert Einstein.

    PalmTreeIsBestTree ,

    That’s all I really wanted from this game. I like the fact the environments are actually different looking instead of Wasteland Fallout or Fantasy Skyrim.

    MtDewaholic ,

    For me this is the first Bethesda game I’ve played (other than a few hours of Skyrim but I didn’t get far), and I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit. It’s not a perfect game, probably not even my game of the year, but I’ve been finding myself wanting to play it over all of the other games currently in my backlog.

    I really don’t see what the hate is about, Bethesda promised space Skyrim, and that’s basically what we got.

    GreenMario ,

    sci Fi Skyrim

    Shit bro that’s all you gotta say.

    I’m a basic bitch like that I like my Bethesda kiddie pools.

    dlpkl ,

    Buy it and return it after 2hrs if it’s not your style. Or you can pirate it and pay them if you feel like it lol.

    Kujo ,

    Yea I felt the same way and spent the $30 bucks on Xbox to play it early. I really think this game is a huge “Your mileage may vary”.

    If you have a PC I would look into a gamepass trial or something to try it out before buying it. Or like someone said buying it on steam and then refunding if it’s not your thing.

    I didn’t have super high expectations but honestly it’s really solid and it does have its flaws that are sometimes in your face, but I’ve had a lot of highs so far when playing too. If you’ve played a Bethesda game before, you can expect what you’re getting into.

    scrubbles ,
    @scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

    I’ve found if you have a good attitude going into things you’ll generally feel better about them. Going in expecting it to be shit, and all you’ll find is shit.

    CaptainEffort ,

    The one time ign was actually on top of it, and people mass disliked the video. That 7 was deserved.

    googlrr , (edited )

    People are weird when it comes to Bethesda. If you like Bethesda games, you’ll probably like this one. I haven’t gotten to play myself yet but watching friends who have it it looks fun. Does it look 10/10 GOTY? Not really. But it looks full* of fun stuff.

    I think in some way all Bethesda games can feel ‘boring’, but kinda in a good way? Like sometimes you’re just wandering a city with no real goal. It isn’t thrilling or adrenaline pumping, but it’s cool and immersive. Some people find that kind of slower pace boring. I think it’s cool. Not everything gotta be full throttle all the time.

    *edit

    CryptoRoberto ,

    I think they’ve been putting out very similar games since like fallout 3. If that’s what you are looking for, it’s fun. People for some reason seem to put unrealistic expectations on things. I assume this game is just improved graphics fallout 3 in space. Which isn’t a bad thing, but if you expect a revolutionary game you are in for disappointment.

    SimplyATable ,

    That’s about what I was expecting, glad to hear it’s mostly true. I’ll be able to play it in a couple days

    PolarisFx ,
    @PolarisFx@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Some of my friends played and immediately hated it and brought up comparisons to newer games, but this isn’t the new Unreal engine, this is the same Creation Engine they’ve been using for 11 years, which is based on the 26yr old gamebryo engine.

    Personally as someone who loves Bethesda games, and who understands the limitations of the engine, I am thoroughly enjoying myself, will it beat bg3 for goty? Unlikely, but it’s still fun

    PalmTreeIsBestTree ,

    At some point they gotta ditch the Creation engine and make a new one from scratch. The reason Halo Infinite ended up being a turd was because of its engine.

    PolarisFx ,
    @PolarisFx@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    TES6 is confirmed to be using Creation Engine as well… That’s like 4 or 5 years down the line. Think of that

    mind ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    googlrr ,

    LOL yeah i missed that one. Not even really a huge fan I just try to temper expectations goin in

    _jonatan_ ,

    How could they? They haven’t played it.

    Mr_Buscemi ,
    @Mr_Buscemi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    This is sadly the first Bethesda game that hasn’t held my attention. The moment I had to deal with that space combat tutorial I knew I would never want to fight in space again for how boring it felt rotating in circles to keep hitting the same button to fire locked on attacks. Nothing about that felt fun or enjoyable and then trying to fast travel and having to go through the menus was worse.

    Then when i got to the first area after the prologue I kept getting my AI robot companion running into as I tried exploring. I lost count of the number of times I tried looking in corners of small rooms only for Vasco run straight up to me and push me into a corner I have to spend 1 minutes trying to jump over.

    Finally New Atlantis made me ask for a refund from how horrible the map system was. Trying to explore the large place was tedious and just such a step back from all Bethesda’s previous work with making the maps detailed for you to see where stuff was. Here I was just using the mission waypoints and ignoring everything else.

    I had fun at the beginning but there are just many things that caused me sway my opinion into not wanting to play it again. Hopefully I can get the $32 refund for the premium shit since I don’t think I’ll be sticking around for the DLC.

    totallymojo ,
    @totallymojo@ttrpg.network avatar

    I played 10hrs on Steam then refunded.
    I was expecting a 2023 game with 12 years of development and 6 months delay for polish.
    I got Fallout 4 (2015) with scifi-skin.

    The thing that pissed me off the most:
    It’s not as open and “huge scale” as people seem to think it is. It’s kind of “fake open” if that makes sense. You cannot get into your ship and fly 800m east to your mission. If you do that, a new instance is loaded and your mission is not there. You have to run that 800m.

    Xylight , (edited )
    @Xylight@lemmy.xylight.dev avatar

    How do you refund after 10 hours? You get 2 hours max i thought

    hangonasecond ,

    Steam can refuse a refund after that time, but they are usually incredibly flexible because a) they want to keep customers on Steam and b) many jurisdictions have much firmer and consumer favoured laws around product refunds, Australia for example is a large reason for Steams current refund policy in the first place.

    Seraphin ,
    @Seraphin@pawb.social avatar

    imo refunding after 10 hours is not the right thing to do, and could undermine the whole refund system if it becomes a common thing people do.

    The original idea for allowing refunds for digital games (or anything, really) is if you get a broken or defective product. If the game won’t launch, or it’s a buggy unplayable mess, or not what was advertised (and I’m talking blatant false advertising, not some vague speculative comments) you get a refund. If you simply don’t like the game, then you need to own it that you made a bad purchase and move on. It happens.

    This is why it’s important to wait for reviews and actual gameplay on YouTube/Twitch first, so you have a much better understanding of what you’re getting. Hell, this why YTers/streamers get free codes on release, so their audience will see the game and want to go buy it.

    It’s been said a million times over but I guess it needs saying again: STOP 👏 PRE-ORDERING 👏 VIDEO 👏 GAMES

    hangonasecond ,

    I agree with your points around not preordering, or waiting for reviews etc. However, I disagree with you that refunding after 10 hours isn’t the right thing to do for a few reasons.

    First, the size of the game in question. For a short, 10-20 hour story driven game, a refund beyond 2 hours is ridiculous. For a large, open role playing game, where somebody spent 120 AUD expecting to get 50-100+ hours of gameplay, 10 hours is perfectly reasonable if you’re really not enjoying the product. If I can send back a meal at a restaurant that I’ve had (relatively speaking) two bites of, I should be able to refund a game the same way.

    Second, again speaking for Australia as a jurisdiction, is the behaviour of brick and mortar stores. I can purchase a physical copy of a game, play it non-stop for two weeks, and get a refund. They have no way to know I finished it three times, but strong consumer protection laws enable me to game the system like this. I agree that it’s the wrong thing to do, but Steam is aware of the fact that the same consumer protection laws apply to them. While they have enough information to stop people from outright gaming the system, Steam needs to balance that against driving people to other storefronts or back to physical retailers.

    Finally, your premise that people can’t reserve the right to get a refund just because they don’t like something. I would agree with this, if game demos were still a wide practise. I can’t get a change of mind refund on a shirt I buy in a physical store most of the time, but I can try the shirt on in the store to see how it looks on me. I can get a change of mind refund on most shirts I buy online, because I have no idea how it’s going to look. Yes, you can wait for reviews and watch gameplay, but it’s always different when you actually play the game. At the end of the day, it still comes down to “I thought this game would be X but it’s actually Y”.

    A firm, inflexible refund policy in my mind achieves the opposite of what you are looking for. If people can never get a refund because a game simply isn’t what they thought, what barrier is their to a mildly successful company ridiculously overpromising, securing the bag, and disappearing into obscurity? If everyone buys the game on Steam and can’t get their money back, the company has won in the short term. If 50% of preorders get refunded, the company has just lost all of that money.

    UnverifiedAPK ,

    2 hours max for a guaranteed refund, anything else (within 2 weeks) needs to be approved by a human to make sure you’re not just beating the game and returning it after.

    totallymojo ,
    @totallymojo@ttrpg.network avatar

    Steam are usually nicer with games that is not officially released yet.

    liquidparasyte ,

    Oh that’s gonna suuuuuuuck for me

    I am the person who will cheese distance running in NMS by triangulating an objective and summoning my ship to it, and Starfield apparently says “lol nope motherfucker you’re walking”

    abbotsbury ,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    Bethesda hasn’t really changed their formula, so if you’ve played Skyrim or Fallout 4 you quickly fall into the ‘quest marker->dungeon->vendor->crafting’ loop and the game stops being stimulating

    iheartneopets ,

    Except you’ve left out a huge bullet point from that loop that has always kept me enjoying their games: quest marker->EXPLORATION->dungeon->vendor->crafting.

    The procedural generation of this game immediately told me I wouldn’t enjoy it (even though I hoped they knew what they were doing), because walking around Bethesda worlds has always been one of the best parts of the exoerience, and they went and optimized it out so that it’s mostly a series of menus. And damn if that’s not been their game design strategy for the past decade-plus—‘optimize’ out all the fun parts, make the game as simplified as possible, even if it means cutting out core features fans love.

    bandario , (edited )
    @bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It really is. At first I was excited about the apparent scale, but the way they’ve hashed it all together all it does is make you jump through a bunch of janky menus and poorly done travel sequences to get to your next carbon-copy action sequence. Combine that with forcing you into a walking simulator when you COULD just use your god damn space ship and it’s just boring and procedural.

    I can see some people really getting into it: the grind to gather resources and build bases etc but really it’s nothing new and if you don’t get off on this kind of mindless gameplay then you are going to be disappointed. Just raid, pick up a bunch of random junk, sell it, build shit. God, how many times have we got to play the same game in a different setting?

    I will say that they have dramatically improved gunplay compared to past titles. Like REMARKABLY, and I found the graphics to be pretty decent but if you want to play with everything on ultra and no resolution scaling, you’d better have a supercomputer. Indoor fights are difficult to lose even in the very early game, but trying to raid abandoned space bases etc will put you in a situation where the AI has got a bead on you from 4 or 5 different angles at once. Top, mid and bottom levels, incoming fire from enough places that you simply can’t find cover - the way that you win is by not attempting to take these bases until you have sufficiently upgraded your HP and shields. Literally you are corralled down the story path through sheer necessity until you get to the point you can just jetpack to each enemy whilst taking fire and take them out without too much worry.

    EDIT: Another bit of playtime.

    Imagine if they left you free to use your ship as you see fit? Crew it with NPC’s, upgrade the firepower and put in a few manned turrets. Maybe let you play with friends and form a pirate crew? You know, the way that battlefield has allowed for this sort of open world vehicular co-op for the last what, 13 years? Once you got good at flight maneuvers you’d be just about unstoppable low flight altitude and it would be fun as hell.

    Alas, the ship is nothing more than a teleporter with some janky, repetitive space combat out the front window. What a missed opportunity.

    jdeath ,

    are you playing on PC? I’m on xbox and the shooting feels harder and less natural than it did in FO76 or 4. I wonder if they optimized it for PC more than xbox

    Kujo ,

    I’m on Xbox and enjoying the shooting far more than any fallout. My favorite part of the game so far is the combat I think

    jdeath ,

    huh, maybe it’s just me then. i’ll give it some more time, only about 4 hours in the game so far.

    bandario ,
    @bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Yeah playing on PC. It’s certainly not the best combat ever but it is worlds better than any previous Bethesda title save possibly for their involvement with RAGE, but I think that was more of a publishing deal and the gunplay was all ID software.

    I can’t comment on using a gamepad, it has always felt like writing left-handed to me.

    XanXic ,

    Really dial in the sensitivity I’d say. It took me like legit cranking it up and then adjusting down by 2% at a time to find a sweet spot. But it’s definitely much more responsive and tighter than any other Fallout-esque game they’ve done. Those always felt mushy.

    I’ll say too it’s probably that the games aim assist is very light. Like almost hardly there. For a single player offline game it could use a small increase. Like I’m still able to head shot dudes but it’s noticeable, and combined with muscle memory for similar games, having hardly any ‘magnetism’ is an adjustment. I keep meaning to look if there’s a slider in the settings.

    jdeath ,

    ok thanks for the tip! i’ll give that a try. i think i got too used to the mushy shooting in fallout and compensated by using a lot of left stick (moving) to handle the finer aiming. so it’s just not what i got used to haha

    GeneralEmergency ,

    When this is the first meme I see a community make. I know the game is mid as fuck.

    deft ,

    thanks for summing me up

    XanXic ,

    I think it’s fun, but I’m a run and gun kind of guy. So I’m having a blast shooting dudes in the face. The shooting is much better than Fallout. I LOVE fighting in the zero gravity arenas. It’s so cool like floating between pillars and headshotting a guy off in the distance and his body is now bopping around. Those are so rare though. Idk how I can find more.

    But overall I find the game frustrating outside battles. It’s like death by a thousand cuts though. There’s no one thing that’s egregious but there’s just stacking outdated design choices that continually build up. The games indecision around flying your ship being an easy catch all for the multiple failures in making your ship mean anything outside of battles and the map system. For the love of God fix the slide, you slide like 2inches. There’s also a constant battle with backing out of menus. Idk.

    But then I find some spacer trap house and have a good time blasting away. Excited for when I can actually can craft bespoke weapons.

    Zeth0s ,

    Apparently id software helped with the shooting part. They are the best in town for it, I am not surprised that it’s improved compared to fallout games, that have pretty bad shootings

    jdeath ,

    maybe i just haven’t gotten ‘the feel’ for it yet, but it seems much worse to me than FO4 or FO76

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    They also helped with the gunplay in FO4 as well. There is a clear improvement over it than FO3.

    Frozengyro ,

    Yea menu navigation is terrible, lack of explanation on how to do anything is confusing, basically no map isn’t great. I’m about 10 hours in and enjoying it, but could have been a lot better.

    Also, maybe it’s just me but I can never tell if I’m buying or selling to a vendor and end up totally messing it up and needing to reload multiple times.

    jdeath ,

    yeah inventory management is the worst! i don’t get it

    rishado ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    XanXic ,

    “not a failure” I called it frustrating and death by a thousand cuts. Just because I don’t screech failure and send Todd Howard death threats doesn’t mean I’m not being critical of the game. Get some reading comprehension and don’t set the bar at hyperbole. Saying the thing you do 75% of the time is fun isn’t calling it a rousing success either by any means.

    iterable , (edited )
    @iterable@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Rule of thumb. Wait until you see top ten mod lists for Bethesda games and is at least on sale.

    DmMacniel ,

    Well… MxR just dropped an immersive mod list.

    qarbone ,

    Impossible. There is no time to have created a list of mods. Unless the list is just BetterHUD and a few options for Reshade

    AlexWIWA ,

    I hear the word immersive in his voice now

    b3nsn0w ,
    @b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

    i have gamepass unrelated to this game, i’m probably going to try it out if the dlss mod can be installed on the gamepass version (which looks like it can be). if the game sucks, i’m happy, nothing kills excitement better than actually experiencing the thing and getting disappointed, so i can finally evict this game from my head. and if the game doesn’t suck, i’m also happy because all these years later i finally get to play star citizen, i just apparently had to wait for bethesda to make it.

    DragonNest_Aidit ,

    I’m waiting for the Moddinglinked (Viva New Vegas and Midnight Ride) guide before I starts torrenting it

    Jyrdano ,

    So how much R is in this RPG game? Is there any character customisation? Like at least Skyrim-level (which is already a pretty low bar to conpare to)

    Cabrio ,

    More than you expect but somehow still less than you want. Just look at the beard options and that will describe the whole game experience so far.

    WarmSoda ,

    Are there 3 beards and 17 mustaches again in this one?

    Cabrio ,

    Closer to 16 stubble, 2 beards, and your choices are short growth or carnival magician.

    WarmSoda ,

    It’s like dreadlocks. For some reason games always have 20 different types of dreadlock styles. I know like maybe two guys that have had dreads.

    Who tf are all these devs sporting dreads?

    WereCat ,

    Red Dread Redemption devs in action

    K0W4LSK1 ,

    Ha you got me with that last panel

    kn0wmad1c ,
    @kn0wmad1c@programming.dev avatar

    Starfield is fun to me 🤷‍♂️

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    People keep saying it’s Skyrim in space. Great, I got a good 400-500 hours out of Skyrim.

    iheartneopets ,

    It’s not. No exploration or interesting story, no ‘wow’ factor like Alduin flying down on you for the first time. Don’t expect Skyrim. Not even close.

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    No exploration? Isn’t there a class built specifically around it?

    iheartneopets ,

    You are mistaking true exploration for unlocking new locations

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    I guess I will find out tomorrow.

    iheartneopets ,

    Have you not been watching gameplay?

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    I don’t really do that anymore. Gameplay footage vary rarely gives me what a actual gameplay feels like.

    I seen gameplay for Minecraft and shrugged it off originally. Ended up being the best game in the world a year later.

    iheartneopets ,

    Fair enough, I guess. I like to know what I’d be buying when I pay $70, personally

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS ,

    I have gamepass.

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