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StThicket ,

It amazes me that one of the largest countries in the world, with the most diverse demographics, can only chose between two candidates. This is not democracy. It’s a shit show that has been going on for far too long.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

America is a one party dictatorship, and in typical American extravagence, it has two of them.

pingveno , (edited )

Said by a man who ran a country that outlawed all but the party he was prime minister of. He was probably a little salty about criticism over the lack of democracy in his country.

Hirom ,

Tradition and inertia.

The USA is proud to have the oldest and longest-standing written constitution. The fact it hasn’t been rewriteen in a long time help explain why there’s still an electoral college, slavery for prisoners (13th amendements), and weak regulation of campaign finance.

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Oldest active constitution is San Marino.

xor ,

Presumably what the other commenter was referring to is the US having the oldest codified constitution

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Which is honestly meaningless but very convenient for US narrations. There were also older de facto constitutions, which are usually forgotten like the Henrician Articles of P-L Commonwealth. US constitution is famous because it was the one which was loudly proclaimed and imitated later.

xor ,

Ok 👍

Hirom ,

That’s interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.

My point is having a very old constitution isn’t much of a boast if keeping it as-is causes political issues.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Just mention an alternative and you’ll will quickly understand why.

The parties have done the most amazing job in pretending the world will end at every election if they are not chosen.

capital ,

Is that a 3rd option in a first past the post system?

Hmmmm… what could be the issue there I wonder.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The people are the issue not the system

capital ,

There is absolutely an issue with first past the post voting systems. And frankly I think you know what the problems are.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

That people are so desperate to keep it in place.

FTFP is never going go away if you keep voting for it lol.

capital ,

How surprising. A comment meant to discourage voting.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Vote for something different than the ftfp parties.

pingveno ,

That’s not how it works. As long as FPTP exists, it will lock us into two parties. We have had multiple party systems that all demonstrated this principle. Some places are experimenting with alternatives on the state and local level, but it will take time.

capital ,

You’ve already got one response to this which is correct. I want to add to it to help explain how FPTP voting systems result in a 2 party system and simply voting for another party does not solve the issue.

But first you’re either aware of the problem and want to encourage people to vote third party while pretending not to know how the system works or you’re actually just ignorant to the issue.

I don’t normally like video links in discussions like this but this one is especially good and is only 6.5 mins.

youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Your video does not explain how voting Democrat is going to fix the FTFP system.

People that don’t understand politics have a better understanding than people that have been frog-boiled into voting for a Genocidal Geriatric.

capital ,

The presidential vote isn’t where we fix the voting system. We have to work in the system we have. It’s just reality.

My assessment of you hasn’t changed - you’re either completely ignorant or want Biden voters to change to third party to help Trump.

Every interaction with you has a similar quality. I’m never sure if you’re just this stupid or if you know exactly what you’re doing.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The presidential vote is where it’s fixed. Republicans have already moved to ban other voting types calling them ‘too complicated’. Democrats will join them the second their duopoly is endangered.

Just like how they crack down on student protests and block ballot access for third parties, Democrats have no standards either.

capital ,

The system exists as it is…. I don’t know any other way to say this. FPTP has a spoiler problem that you can’t wish away.

I’m not going to vote for a candidate that’s going to get maybe 2-5% of the vote.

I would like to bet you $1000 that either the Dem or Rep candidate will win. If anyone BUT those two win, I would pay you.

If you ACTUALLY believed anyone else will win, you’d take me up on it. What do you say?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Strange you’re including Republican in there. You believe Biden is winning right? So your money should be on Biden and any other winner would make you lose.

capital ,

I’m sitting here trying to convince you that FPTP results in a two party system. I’m betting on the two parties.

YOU are the one imagining that can change by simply voting 3rd party.

So, you down for a bet or what?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

If Biden isn’t winning what’s the point of voting for him?

capital ,

He is one of two possibilities.

And you’re not going to bet because you know it too.

And now we know you’re not ignorant to this fact. You’re encouraging 3rs party votes knowing very well they will not win.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

No Biden is zero of one possibility.

There’s no way he’s going to beat Trump.

capital ,

I’m glad we finally got to you admitting 3rd parties won’t win.

Thanks.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I’m glad we finally got you admitting that Biden wont win.

capital ,

Linkerbaan logic:

3rd parties who are lucky to get 5% of the vote can win.

Biden, who won against Trump last time cannot win.

Lol

VictoriaAScharleau ,

FPTP voting systems result in a 2 party system and simply voting for another party does not solve the issue.

this isn’t an immutable natural law.

VictoriaAScharleau ,

you’re either aware of the problem and want to encourage people to vote third party while pretending not to know how the system works or you’re actually just ignorant to the issu

false dichotomy

crusa187 ,

It is kind of amazing how even those disenfranchised voters will rally to support the hegemony of the “two party” corporatist rule. I suggested recently we could consider rallying behind a single issue 3rd party candidate who would end the legalized bribes and replace FPTP with a more democratic alternative, and was immediately downvoted and told it’s not possible due to FPTP.

facepalm

glitchdx ,

In order for a 3rd option to be viable, the entire system must change. I’m not holding my breath.

Between now and then, all we can do is vote for the less bad of two evils.

helpImTrappedOnline , (edited )

It is theoreticaly possible, but praticaly speaking it would be near impossible.

To acomplish this, you need to get 51% of the population (who actually vote) to all vote for one person. However, with FPTP, you get one choice on the ballot. Is the average voter going to risk their vote on a 3rd party, or vote for who they belive to be the “lesser evil” of the two that have a shot at winning?

Even if you do manage to get 51%, there’s the electoral collage. Never forget, our democracy has built in the ability to overwrite the presidential vote.

Your first hurdle is getting any one to name an independent candidate.

Edit: adjusted some wording to be better.

pastabatman ,

I agree with this. But also, this time is the closest to “end of the world” stakes we’ve had in recent memory. We have a literal criminal, rapist, and fraudster who already tried to overthrow the government once leading the polls.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

2016 called they want their gaslighting back. Trump isn’t the final form of Fascism. He’s getting close but he ain’t it.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

didn’t you vote in the primary? why not?

Americans got to choose between many candidates, and out of those, it’s down to 6, and of those 6, it’s only really likely 2, that’s true.

But it isn’t quite like you imply.

nobody158 ,

The shitty thing is by the time my states primary pretty much every else has dropped out. We need to run the primary like a real election not piecemeal.

StThicket ,

I didn’t vote in the primary, because I’m not American.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

yes, obviously. but the point stands: there wasn’t just two candidates, and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

StThicket ,

I understand what you are trying to say. Ultimately, there are only two to vote for. Ideally, there should be more than two parties, and more than two candidates. That’s how democracies work. What you have is a dysfunctional system that divides people in two groups, and there are no incentives to cooperate between parties. Proper voting is also suffering due to the two-party system.

youtu.be/yhO6jfHPFQU

In my country, the parties with the majority of votes and the ability to cooperate gets to form a government. We also try to make it easy to get people to vote, insted of your system of gerrymandering.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

there are 6 parties, but only two of the six are large ones at the moment.

StThicket ,

Yes I know, but the voting system favours the two largest. Thats why they are large. Small parties have 0% chance og getting representatives into the houses, so they are basically irrelevant.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

just as long as you know you’re wrong. 👍

StThicket ,

Yes, it’s important to defend the only thing you know, even how bad it might be. 😄

crusa187 ,

The RNC never intended to run a candidate other than Trump because he controls MAGA, which is what remains of their energized base. The primaries they held were “just in case” Merrick Garland actually did something useful and successfully prosecuted Trump for insurrection, which never came to pass.

The DNC did everything they could to prevent primary elections from occurring in various states, and bullied anyone who was floating a run into submission. This included the state dept making calls to state DNC committees to cancel primaries, or remove certain candidates from their ballots. According to them, it was an insult to Biden admin and their legacy to even suggest another candidate should run. And now look where that’s gotten us.

So no, we didn’t actually vote in primaries this year because the establishment refuses to relinquish the status quo.

halvar ,

I’m from Europe (Hungary) and I watched the first 20 minutes of the debate (with the intent of finishing the whole thing in one go) before turning it off while basically being on the brink of crying. The US presidents basically have as much say in my life as my own government (if not more) and even though I can’t vote for them, if I had to I’d be lost. Because it’s not that one is old and the other is crazy it’s a freaking Venn diagram of crazy RFK jr., demented Biden and then of course crazy and demented Trump. Seeing the debate and how these people basically can’t put two sentences after each other without breaking up is terrifying. And one of them will be voted into the most important office on the planet.

I mean it’s shit over here. We can choose between a guy who already stole half of our country, someone whose messy divorce somehow made him the most important member of the opposition and this other guy who stole the other half of the country before the current dude did. (And that’s just the tip of the iceberg). But maaan are we a lot better off than the world’s greatest country where two unsupervised parties get to point at the people you can vote into this ridiculously powerful position. And then they pick these guys.

We’re all going to die and I can’t even vote for whoever gets us killed, which is ultimately for the better. This way I can die with a clear conscience.

eldavi ,

… which is ultimately for the better. This way I can die with a clear conscience.

i envy you and i wish i could say the same thing because i have to vote for biden or else we’ll regress backwards in addition to dying.

CaptainEffort ,

This really is the year of the douche and the turd sandwich

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

I’m voting for Moleman

KreekyBonez ,

I was saying “boo-urns”

Sterile_Technique ,
@Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world avatar

Krusty doesn’t deserve this.

Zahtu ,

Yeah Kristy is better than this dipshit orange, fascism and racism spilling trash can of a human meat bag.

Grandwolf319 ,

Although Krusty is a decent human being in the show, he is also shown to be a typical out of touch celebrity while kind of trashy still.

Trump is like the classic trashy celebrity so imo it fits more than it doesn’t.

humbletightband ,

Turd sandwich vs giant douche

oo1 ,

Thing is a douche is useful. I giant one is probably also useful in cleaning, industrial or civil applications like sewerage.

I think only flies or dung beetles would be interested in the turd sandwich.

humbletightband ,

How the fuck Trump is useful?

oo1 ,

As fuel? like whale oil maybe.

I was thinking trump was the turd sandwich, but I really don’t understand US politics.

I suspect Joe Bidet is more likely to want to clean out your sewerage system.

Hupf ,

I’m rooting for Hank Scorpio.

Spacehooks ,

“When you get home there will be another floor on your house” -Hank Scorpio

I got to say Hank was a great boss. Really rewarded his team. The kind person we should all strive to be.

taanegl ,

Biden 2024 - wear an union around your belt

The_Che_Banana ,

And cintch that belt about nipple high.

WaxiestSteam69 ,

This is way too accurate.

snekerpimp ,

Yea, this is a good comparison. A washed up, talentless, lying, cheating, stealing, has-been hack of a clown, or a pretty cool old guy that’s been around the world, has cool stories to tell, loads of wisdom but falls asleep every now and then… like the clown does at court.

Fades ,

Trump is FAR more dangerous than just some clown, you nailed it.

Aeri ,
@Aeri@lemmy.world avatar

I’d say Sideshow Bob is more apt, only Bob was kind of smart.

Lost_My_Mind ,

How about Snake?

saltesc ,

Quimby

anachronist ,

has cool stories to tell

Biden has a history of telling crazy stories even before he went senile.

www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/…/index.html

TropicalDingdong ,

Hasn’t he like… repeatedly claimed that his uncle was eaten by cannibals?

PsychedSy ,

But from him it’s not racist.

RootBeerGuy ,
@RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

The clown is however also old. And cursed.

experbia ,
@experbia@lemmy.world avatar

image of Homer Simpson starting forward blankly after hearing “potassium benzoate” and not knowing if it’s good or bad

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