Stopped even looking at chrome since yrs. If they force their services even via chrome based browsers, I will dump their offerings as much as possible.
Google has kicked up such a revolt that I find it easy to convince everyone to use Firefox. If they think they can keep abusing their userbase like this, then they are in for a surprise.
I guess because of the web environment integrity API proposed by Google. It enables your browser to tell the website it hasn’t installed AdBlock or any other undesired add on. This is marketed as improving security, but will mainly be used to block browsers which block adds.
And big plus for google: it can be extended very well. The site sees any extension installed, if the browser is headless. So only google can use bots in the future and can rake in all the ai training profits and sell all the searchengine ads.
It’s not just open to Google and it doesn’t stop there either. Amazon could refuse to work if you’re on a phone and don’t have their app, or it could tell you to uninstall the Alibaba app before using
The possibilities are endless, and all benefits to be had are on the corporate side
I mean for some rare specific usages it could be usefull like ensuring bank webpages integrity or similar but mostly and the main usage would be for what you said.
It doesn’t though - it basically ensures your device settings.
Is that integrity? Maybe - if the attester code is flawless and handles all situations perfectly, it could theoretically add to integrity, but that’s not a realistic outcome
It’s not designed for that. It can only block the site - it doesn’t add to security, it takes away from it.
Say a bank designs their own attester - suddenly you have code that, if compromised, is always run in the most privileged execution context, in a way the user can’t control right before you enter your bank password
That’s fine but the point of the post is that you have to use a non chromium browser to avoid wei. Once it’s implemented it’s likely that edge and others will have to implement it too.
No you don’t. Chrome might implement wei but chromium is open source. There’s literally no way they could force every chromium browser to use it and the threat of drm web isn’t affected by using a non wei chromium browser or Firefox.
It would be a monumental effort for smaller browsers to keep chromium extensions working, while the rest of the ecosystem moves to the new APIs. The only way that could work is if they all fork chromium and base their browsers on this new fork, and even then it’s not guaranteed to develop a real ecosystem of plugins since chrome has more users than all of those other chromium browsers combined.
So yeah you have to use Firefox if you want to avoid that, at least for now.
How is there no way? Yes, there is. Google implements it in the original, websites start requiring it, all of those browsers that didn’t implement it will be denied from access to websites. The end.
Oh yes. Just because it’s for Microsoft doesn’t change Edges purpose. Hell, it’s the foremost premise for every newer OS they’ve released, browser included. There’s a reason Microsoft is just “giving upgrades away for free.”
If Google does push web DRM through, edge will surely adopt it. The best time to switch is now and there will no second best time if they actually do it.
As Chromium monopolizes the market they’re able to push anti-user updates because sites don’t care. It’s down to Firefox or Chromium-based browsers. Firefox is basically the only thing that’s kept Chrome from straight up removing adblocking capability and the like.
Always amazing how much people can know without actually „getting it“. Just use firefox. You don’t get anything for „winning“ on a technicality. Just leave it be.
It ruins the internet. Google controls Chromium, if most browsers are Chromium-based, that means those browsers will eventually get whatever Google implements which means other browsers are forced to implement them or you can get broken websites.
It’s a fallacy. Why would I stop drinking alcohol, why would I stop smoking, why would I stop sunbathing without protection? Why would I leave the titanic? It is unsinkable. It works for you because you haven’t gotten to the bullet in the chamber yet.
The people here are trying to tell you that it’s not safe and that it will only get worse. And in opposition to your arguments, these facts are based on professional opinions and the known business practices of the companies these products are associated with.
I know you have your opinion but an opinion is not your personality. You can let go of it without ruining your life, again in opposition to keeping it and actually harming yourself, either financially or otherwise.
Why is it so hard to trust people who do this stuff for a living?
@Haui@Cleverdawny, I also use Chromium, Vivaldi since over 7 Years, not because Firefox or Otter Browser, which I also have as second an third one, because of something called business ethics which has Vivaldi, because it fits best my needs, because it's faster than FF, because it's de-googled and don't have third party investors, because it's a European employees-owned Cooperative, it's a safe Browser with good privacy, products associated are Mastodon, Vivaldi mail, own userblog, sync.......
@Haui@Cleverdawny, the discrepancy between Chromium and Firefox users is absurd, if there is a common enemy that endangers the existence of both and all the other minority browsers, it is this that in the end ends up that only Chrome, EDGE and Opera exist anymore, because these have no qualms about including this Google Tokens shit.
It is a matter of thinking and acting together against this barbarism, something that Mozilla and Vivaldi are already doing, but more is needed.
Thanks. That is very kind of you to point out. Also, I don’t care about firefox at all. It was just the best I could find at the time and since am watching industry news if something not only marginally better pops up. Hasn‘t yet. As a sysadmin it is my job to keep systems running and ideally not vendor lock the company or myself. That’s why I stay away from google as much as I can.
@Haui, that is the problem, there are a lot of browsers, almost 100, out there, but there are only a few decent browsers.
There is Firefox and Vivaldi, maybe Otter, the three I currently have, but FF and Otther, because of test reasons, due to different engines they use..
Chrome, EDGE and Opera are Spyware, Brave not very trustworth because of shady relations with Cryptocompanies, a lot of other forks, some not so bad, but very weak in the market.
No much left.
I agree. The reason for this is market control imo. Chrome is default on chromeos, edge on windows and they’re doing everything they can to make it hard to integrate with other things.
Actually, it should be outlawed to even install a browser and definitely to recommend one.
@Haui, what should be declared illegal is that a private company dominates an essential public space such as the Internet today.Everyone uses the browser that suits them, as a basic tool to access this space. Those who want to protect privacy, avoid using those of these private companies like Google, Microsoft or this Chinese thing.
But honestly, an app that just shows a repo of browsers (which were virus tested) and downloads one but can itself not be used as a browser should be mandatory for every OS and done.
@Haui, it's the same, a repo to download a browser IS a browser, at least it's engine. Because of this it's irrelevant if there is a preinstalled browser or a repo dedicated. Also eg the Steam client is a Chromium (bad optimized, slow as hell, in Kiosk mode)
Apart what will you do, if you want a browser which isn't in this repo?
I think it's easier if the OS include a Browser and everyone is free to use it or use it to download a browser to his like from its official homepage.
First of all, thanks but I‘m familiar with sysadmin stuff and a (web) browser is not the same as a repo.
I‘m talking about something like the appstore that you now have on most OSs. It needs to be open so no single corporation can control it. And it needs to be the same on all OSs for this browser issue (although one could argue it should be the same for everything).
And no, I‘m not talking about things that are just not available for windows/linux/macos but aside from that, the ui, sorting should be similar.
That way you make it impossible for MS to push edge, for linux to push firefox and for google to push chrome.
You visit the appstore and install your browser, then you can go online.
@Haui, ok but i still see the advantage there can be
How does a repository keep up to date with the 1000 or so existing browsers? Where is it downloaded from and what advantages does it offer compared to downloading it from its official website?
In Android there is the Play Store with dubious security and with many apps retouched and cutted off by Google, eg the app Blokada isn't the same as Blokada from F-Store or the original .apk in the Website. In Windows I avoid the Store for same reasons
As I already answered to you in another comment: there needs to be a law that specifies how this store/list is made, what it contains and how it is displayed. It has been done thousands of times. Trust me, it’s gonna work.
@Haui, You cannot prevent an OS from modifying a Store according to its own interests, with which we arrive at the same thing that could only accept a list with links that point to the corresponding official pages of the browsers for download, an online activity that requires an engine for defect that is the same as that of the usual browser used, as in the example of the Steam client, in essence a Chromium in Kiosk mode.
I don’t have the faintest idea where you have your info from but you can make an OS do whatever you wan‘t. As a programmer, it’s dead easy to make something appear a certain way, display certain things in a certain order.
You write a law that says (I‘m not a lawyer, bear with me): every OS that has a GUI must display a „get browser“ shortcut on the desktop/main screen after installation. This shortcut needs to open a store (similar windows/linux/macos/iOS stores) which displays all browsers in this open list [source] only sortable by name, newest update, ratings. No other markings, highlights or recommendations are allowed.
That then needs to be sharpened a little bit since there might be ways around it in this form. Then you have your problem solved.
@Haui, not a problem in Linux, but I'm not sure about the trust in MS and Google. Which Lawyer will impose this law? The same old people who confuse a remote control with a mobile in the parties paid by these multinationals? Wait for it.
In theory it's a nice idea, but this remains heavenly music in practice.
M$ has no qualms about offering FOSS in its store by setting a price, like some time ago with LibreOffice for €9.90.
Yes, you are correct. The political side will be a nightmare.
But this has historically always been the case. We need to agree on something and get more people go agree on it and so on. It’s actually doable, it’s just out of the scope for most people since they don’t have concise thoughts to begin with.
@Haui, we agree on this, but just like Google in its Play Store modifies good apps to your liking, you download it later with half of the original functions and full of ads.
Worse with MS, now planning an online OS by monthly subscription, without the possibility of jailbreak controlling the user and the PC completely. These are the people we have to deal with.
Check Microsoft.com with this tool and you will see https://themarkup.org/blacklight
I don’t disagree on your view of MS and google but I do on the politics.
Even huge corporations need to abide by the law (or pay fines) e.g. usb-c charging. We can do it, we just need to stay on topic. Discussing why google and ms (and others) wont do it is only going to hurt the idea because people love to hear „but we can’t change it anyway so you don’t have to do anything“. Instead we forget what naysayers there definitely will be and just push for it.
@Haui, Google, MS must certainly comply with the legislation and it is seen that in the EU (GDPR) the corresponding PPs do not contain these atrocities like those for a US user. But this is not the central point, apart from the fact that they sometimes prefer to pay the fines because it is more profitable for them, it is the inherent ethics of their policy that lessens trust in their services, because it is also clear that they will always try to circumvent the legislation for their purposes.
These are not conclusions based on the other half, these are distinct facts. Also, if not for this, why would a chromium fork named “ungoogled chromium” exist?
Lmfao. Bro edge is chromium my guy. You just switched from one skin to another is all. It’s all the same under the hood🤣
They are definitely not all the same, and Vivaldi is a fantastic example of that. Just because it’s Chromium-based doesn’t mean it’s chock full of bullshit and a Chrome reskin, it just means that it most likely is. Vivaldi definitely isn’t.
Have you tried the one recently implemented in Firefox? I’m not sure about Edge, but it’s much better than Chrome’s. I rarely have to use anything else.
Correct. We would not even be here if corporations could be trusted. Everyone needs to get this somehow. Federation (open source project development is kind of federated as well) is the key. Actually, we‘re having the same oppressive authoritarianism that gave birth to federated states. Looks like a pattern.
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