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jpeps ,

Reminds me of the UK’s Government Digital Services, who want to digitise government processes but also have a responsibility to keep that service as accessible and streamlined as possible, so that even a homeless person using a £10 phone on a 2G data service still has an acceptable experience.

An example. Here they painstakingly remove JQuery (most modern frameworks are way too big) from the site and shave 32Kb off the site size.

roguetrick ,

That’s the most professional comment section I’ve ever fucking seen.

ameancow ,

Hasn’t been linked to reddit yet probably.

Getting away from reddit has shown me that there are unspoiled places in the digital world out there, communities of people who actually care about the topic and not performatism and internet attention.

mPony ,

a) don’t let in anyone who acts like petulant children b) give adults an outlet for occasional outbursts that would make them sound like petulant children

draughtcyclist ,

Website is amazingly responsive as well, seems to be working.

lolcatnip ,

At a certain point it makes more sense to subsidize better low-end hardware than to make every web site usable on a 20 year old flip phone. I’d argue that if saving 32 kB is considered a big win, you’re well past that point. Get that homeless guy a £50 phone and quit wasting the time of a bunch of engineers who make more than that in an hour.

uis ,

Get that homeless guy a home.

Also, if you are in a basement/mountains/middle of Siberia, waiting for 32 kB takes quite some time.

lolcatnip ,

I’m all for ending homelessness, but that’s really a different problem than we were discussing. I’m pretty confident jQuery isn’t stopping anyone from being housed.

Anyway, there’s no way you’re gonna convince me 32 kB is a lot of data. It’s just not. Even the slowest 3G connections can download that much in half a second. Just the text of this thread is probably more than 32 kB. If you can’t download that much data, you only technically have Internet service at all.

uis ,

Even the slowest 3G connections can download that much in half a second.

Even 3G is not always avaliable, even 3G sometimes slower than 2G.

32 KB here, 32 KB there and boom - you have bitbucket.

lolcatnip ,

At least in the US, the reason 3G isn’t available is that it has been phased out, as has 2G. You may as well complain about how slow it is to send data with smoke signals, because 4G is table stakes for an internet-capable device now.

uis , (edited )

US? US is wild place. A lot of people still on ADSL, but 2G and 3G equipment is thrown away and say “lol, you problem, buy new phone”. I won’t be surprised that there are a lot of places where internet is less stable than in a train going through tunnel under the mountain in the middle of Siberia. Which means no internet.

I wonder what happens to internet connection in rural areas of USSA, since you suddenly started talking about it.

In Europe(or at least in my part of Europe) there are places where mobile internet is overloaded like subway system and city center and places where mobile internet is very unstable like my house in suburban area and, agan, trains.

And, as I mentioned, bitbucket. It struggles to load even on average PC.

bluewing ,

Where I live even 4G isn’t all that reliable. Making a phone call is mostly impossible and a text message is hit or miss unless I’m in a town or along a major road, This is due to terrain and the general lack of towers. 4G is spotty at best and with many areas having no service at all. And I ain’t never going to live long enough to ever see 5G out here.

But, I would agree that while 32KB is pretty minor for an internet connection, things have a way of stacking. 32KB here, another extra 32KB there and pretty soon things can get ‘heavy’ to use.

uis ,

Also, engieneers already had tech debt of updating to new jQuery version, which can result in a lot of wierd bugs, so it was achiveing two goals at once.

And probably 50£ phone IS their target device.

lolcatnip ,

🙄

uis ,

Wow, nice. Sexcellent.

lord_admiral OP ,
@lord_admiral@lemmy.world avatar

You mean eggcellent?

uis ,

This is TF2 meme.

lord_admiral OP ,
@lord_admiral@lemmy.world avatar

This is T9 meme.

Aux ,

The issue with UK services is that they all are fucking random and plenty of sections don’t work. There are billions of logins, bugs and sometimes you just get redirected to some bloody nightmare portal from 1990-s. And EU citizens couldn’t log in into HMRC portal for years after Brexit, what a fucking joke! And all they do is spend time removing jQuery, good fucking job!

brbposting ,

Contentious in the comments!

Sleepyforestwizard ,

Antix made my old Chromebook’s usable. Old tech is fun.

uis ,

It’s not that hardware isn’t capable, it’s just manufacturer isn’t willing. Or rather willing to not.

bruhduh ,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Antix is the last one standing on the support of old hardware, also gentoo Debian and tumbleweed is good ones since they support WIDE range of architectures

StaySquared ,

lol.

hperrin ,

I wrote an email service called Port87, and I did it on a really low end laptop (an Ideapad 3 from 2021) to make sure that it works well, even on a potato.

joe_cool ,

If an Ideapad 3 is a potato now what’s an EeePC?

bruhduh , (edited )
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

i played Skyrim on i3 4005u with integrated graphics and 4gb ram when i was high schooler, they did epic in 7th console generation as limitations was 512mb shared memory and 250gflops gpu

lord_admiral OP ,
@lord_admiral@lemmy.world avatar

You’re a heretic.

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

I knew someone that refused to upgrade the programmer’s workstation precisely because it would have been a big leap in performance compared to what their costumers used the software on. Needless to say the program was very fast even on weaker hardware.

gandalf_der_12te ,

That someone is me.

outerspace ,

Better to run a whole generation , so like 30 years so people would start planning the upgrades ahead for when everyone is ready

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

If I can’t type the program into my TRS-80 from a computer magazine I don’t trust it.

lauha ,

I was going to laught at the hypocricy of you using lemmy, definitely not using your TRS-80 but I don’t trust my phone, the lemmy app or lemmy server either.

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

We just need to write a version of Lemmy that runs in basic on a TRS-80 and publish a magazine

RaccoonBall ,

Trash 80 dialing in to a Linux shell account using one of the various cli lemmy clients should work

mryessir ,

How goes the saying? 32 MB of RAM and always swapping?

flauschke ,

I’ve heard Emacs as eight mb and constantly swapping (I use Emacs BTW)

mryessir ,

Your awesome for correcting me (I use vim BTW)

Plus emacs and lisp are superior. But I didn’t managed to jump ships.

WolfLink ,

The ideal is “plays fine at lowest graphics settings on old hardware” while having “high graphics settings” that look fantastic but requires too-of-the-line hardware to play reasonably.

Generally this is almost impossible to achieve.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

So you’re saying there IS a chance…

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

I like how KDE has been getting faster and faster as time went on. Like Lisa Simpson’s perpetuum mobile.

rustydrd ,
@rustydrd@sh.itjust.works avatar

I think I already posted this at some point, but Software Disenchantment is always worth mentioning in this context.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

The thing is that developers tend to keep things as simple as possible and overly optimize stuff, when you find bloatware is usually some manager that decided to have it.

lord_admiral OP ,
@lord_admiral@lemmy.world avatar

The thing is

Of course, we developers like to optimize and patch source code all the time. If I am suddenly woken up at three in the morning, I will immediately open the lid of my laptop and start optimizing the code. That’s our little developer secret.

herrvogel ,

It’s the marketing. Always the marketing. Especially the SEO guys.

One SEO guy we worked with told us not to cache our websites because he was convinced that it helped. He badgered us about it for weeks, showed us some bullshit graphs and whatever. One day we got fed up and told him we’d disabled the cache and he should keep an eye out for any improvements in traffic. Obviously we didn’t actually do anything of the sort because we are not fucking idiots. Couple days later the SEO wizard sent us another bunch of figures and said “see, I told you it would help I know my stuff”. He did not, in fact, know his stuff.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Couple days later the SEO wizard sent us another bunch of figures and said “see, I told you it would help I know my stuff”. He did not, in fact, know his stuff.

Ahaha no way.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

We need more shorter games, made by happier devs paid more to work fewer hours, with worse graphics.

lord_admiral OP ,
@lord_admiral@lemmy.world avatar

I need a glass of whiskey.

SnipingNinja ,

Don’t we all, though I’m not opposed to any good liquor

Aux ,

Steam is full of shorter games with worse graphics made by indy devs. Guess what? No one gives a shit! Because no one needs crappy games from 1980-s.

dh34d ,

The indie boomer shooter scene is exploding, actually

Aux ,

This is data from 2020 statista.com/…/steam-indie-game-revenue-genre/ but I believe it’s still pretty relevant.

In short, indie games are the games no one is playing. A tiny fraction of indies bring more than $200k, while AA and AAA bring in millions and hundreds of millions.

The idea that we need shitty games with piss poor graphics is just plain wrong. What we need are high res games to enjoy 4K experiences.

yistdaj ,

I think this is a false dichotomy and an over-simplistic view of the game industry. Remember, there are far more indie games than AAA, so of course they’re going to earn less, there are more to choose from. Plus, if an indie game does too well, it often stops being indie. Most of the money for AAA games is from the same few people paying thousands of dollars in many small purchases too.

Anecdotally, most people’s favourite games are, or at least started off as indie games. However, most people’s least favourite are going to be indie as well. I think the thing with indie games is that they vary a lot, often exploring things that many publishers simply aren’t willing to. This allows them to find and fill a niche perfectly that a publisher can never fill. The main thing is that people see this and start making their own indie games, leading to market saturation pretty quickly.

Plus, the vast majority of people still don’t have 4K monitors. It may be the future, but you seem to think that’s where we are now when we just aren’t.

Aux ,

The topic is about low end indie games specifically. Thus games, which started as indie, like Valheim or No Man’s Sky don’t fit the bill. The point is that no one gives a shit about low end games apart from a few niche fans. Everyone likes high end looking games with loads of stuff to do in them.

yistdaj ,

I quite like many games with “poor” graphics. Perhaps not exclusively, but you’re seriously missing out if you only go for realistic-looking or detailed games. Give a few of those indie games a try, you might be surprised.

Edit: Oh, and terminal games are cool! Usually not very performant though.

Aux ,

Nah, sorry, I’m not playing pixelated crap on my dual screen 4K set up. That was cool back in the 1990-s on my Sega Mega Drive, but I outgrew that a long time ago. Fuck, I’m old…

menemen , (edited )
@menemen@lemmy.world avatar

Some of them are really succesful. Many people care. Others don’t.

Here the current Steam charts. Many indie games, some few with really low specs. Banana only needs 30MB RAM. Seems to be a great game. Hostly now, why are 50k people playing that “game” currently?

But back on topic: Yes, AAA games are more succesfull and earn much more money, but claiming “no one cares about indie” is stupid, when so many people play games like Rust, Stardew Valley, Prison Architect, Terraria, RimWorld, Valheim, The Forest, …

Aux ,

Games like Valheim and Rust are not some pixel art games which will run on a 2GB system with an integrated GPU, they’re pretty much AA games with an AA level publisher behind them. Yes, there are some real exceptions, like Stardew Valley, but you can count them on your fingers. They don’t make even a 1% of Steam catalogue. Thus my point still stands - no one cares about low end games.

Timecircleline ,

Even if they don’t make up 1% of Steam’s catalogue (though I doubt that figure), they have had real impact.

It’s ok to not like them personally, but to say no one cares is disingenuous. Balatro doesn’t require much in terms of hardware but is having a real moment right now. Stardew Valley has been killing it for 8 years. People have thousands of hours in Rimworld.

Indie games are also great for community and modders.

Aux ,

Sorry, but no.

Holzkohlen ,

You have my vote.

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