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crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

I would hapilly use linux mint if only it didn’t use apt, honestly don’t like it as a package manager.

Ghere is also the fact that mint will have older versions of packages, for example neovim which I need to be latest version always.

That’s why I loved arch and gentoo before, for their package managers and roling distro nature.

Now I’m on nixos unstable and it’s currently my favourite unbreakable distro, and the nix package manager is really good and making my own pqckages is really easy.

Guenther_Amanita , (edited )

I don’t like apt too as much. But, interface-wise, you can make it way better with Nala, which is a frontend for it.

NixOS is too complicated and demanding for most users, who aren’t programmers or hobbyists, imo.
I prefer Fedora Atomic. It has the same pros (unbreakable, highly configurable with universal-blue.org, etc.) but feels way more user friendly.
I use it with Distrobox on top, so I can use my package manager/ distro of choice (turned out to be Arch btw) on a extremely reliable system.

For your case, you can replicate Mint by just installing the Cinnamon image from uBlue and applying some minimal tweaks.
Then you get the user friendliness from Mint with the flexibility and unbreakability from NixOS. Do you like the idea? Just in case you get annoyed by NixOS in the future 🙃

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

Seems like a fine idea, but nixos is just exactly what I want from a distro it turns out and nix is just the package manager I wanted but never knew I did.

TheFadingOne ,

I don’t think OSTree systems can quite reach the flexibility of NixOS. For instance with NixOS (with direnv and nix-shells) you can essentially swap out your running system based on the different directories you enter and I think that’s still just scraping the top of the iceberg. From my experience with OSTree (which is admittedly somewhat limited) I don’t think you can reach that level of flexibility.

It’s still really cool, I don’t mean to shit on that, I’m just saying NixOS and OSTree have different pros and cons and use cases.

gramgan ,

I like the idea of the fedora immutable distros, but the reliance on flatpak makes me a bit nervous (guess I’m just old-fashioned)… I think some kind of solution that puts a stable system like Debian or immutable fedora with a package manager like Nix might be very good (I know the U-Blue guys have been playing with homebrew?)

Guenther_Amanita ,

You can still install Nix (package manager) on Atomic, on uBlue, it even comes pre-installed afaik.

And also, there’s Distrobox, which is totally enough if you prefer package managers over Flatpaks.
I personally like the “reliance” on Flatpaks. I think it reduces the fragmentation and makes it easier for devs, but that’s just my opinion. Do as you prefer.

gramgan ,

Actually, I just tried both homebrew and Nox with a Debian 12 installation and I’m not impressed. Homebrew only ships CLI apps, and GUI applications installed with Nix famously don’t show up in application launchers… it seems like you don’t really get the features of Nix unless you use NixOS.

punkhazard ,

What do you not like about apt? Genuinely curious, never used anything besides apt/apt-get and aptitude. Am I missing out?

sag ,

Am I missing out?

Borking your system I guess. /j

Norgur , (edited )
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

If you never do more than update, upgrade, install and remove, then just skip every post recommending different distros for their package manager. For you (as for most users), it will not make the slightest difference if you are using apt, packman, whatever else. If there's something you want your package manager to do but it can't, you'll know. And if it comes to that, you can start diving into the different managers and which one is best suited for the specific thing you want to do.

But it has to be mentioned that aptitude does not have super cow powers of course.

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

You don’t miss out on anything if it does what you need.

For me apt is just slow and clunky, don’t like the way some of the commands are and they are long, I prefer the way that pacman and portage do it where I can make commands be sinple and only be couple characters instead of whole words.

I liked pacman because it was fast, and it was really easy to block a package from upgrading and downgrading packages is really easy.

I liked portage because it worked with program’s sources so I was able to just remove part’s of program’s and their dependencies I didn’t need.

I like nix now because of the way it manages dependencies, and for the fact that packaing programs in it is really easy to do.

EntropyPure , (edited )

Nala is a great apt frontend. It supports parallel downloads of packages and speeds up the whole process up a lot.

Not sure which commands irk you as too long. Nala makes a good overview of changes like which package is bumped to what version and where it stands now. So I basically only use


<span style="color:#323232;">nala upgrade
</span>

and take it from there. Updates the sources, lists the diff for upgradable packages and ask me to go forward or abort.

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

Just the pure act of installing a package is longer than with pacman for example.

And the way that apt has seperated regular package and -dev packages irks me a lot when I need a library for something I need to make sure to install a =dev package compared to most other package manager where libraries are installed with the lackage itself.

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

For me, it’s quite the opposite. I love that apt commands are so close to natural language.

Pan_Ziemniak ,

That first sentence is what I love about Linux bros. For all the supposed gatekeeping and pretentiousness that goes on in these circles, i find this to be much more representative of my experience. As i said elsewhere in the thread, im really not very well versed in all that Linux is/can be. And yet, somehow someway, ive never really felt put down for it when seeking help.

Before this comment, i honestly didnt know there could be such preferences to ur package managers.

Holzkohlen ,

Nah, apt is great. I use Arch, but the package manager does not make a difference for me. I think I’d prefer apt for the user friendly terms to use it: apt search, apt install, apt remove, apt purge. Much nicer than the pacman equivalents I haven’t even bother to learn.

SpaceNoodle , (edited )

If for some unspecified reason you truly and absolutely need the latest version of something, nothing’s stopping you from pulling the repo and building it yourself.

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

That’s fine when you need only one or two things, but when you wan’t your whole system to be up to date as much as possible it becomes tedious.

SpaceNoodle ,

And I’m questioning the need for that.

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

For me it’s the fact that I almost always need a feature from a program that’s in a recent release that is never in debian/ubuntu until a couple years later.

SpaceNoodle ,

For every single package?

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

Just about 90% of packages that I wan’t to use

SpaceNoodle ,

X

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Fairly long-term Mint veteran here: usually if I need software that’s more up to date than what’s in the standard repo, Flatpak will do.

SpaceNoodle ,

Oh god no

smileyhead ,

I really like the idea of Nix, but having to have GitHub account to publish a package is a big no for me, even if I have one.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

There’s a Fedora Cinnamon spin.

fiddlestix ,

I’m in the same boat as you, but haven’t tried making my own packages. Is there a guide somewhere I can follow?

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

I mostly just searched nixos how to package pyrhon/go/rust/ program or nixos how to package sddm theme/gtk/…

The best resource honestly are the randon blogposts since the wiki itself is really bad.

I also recommend the channel vimjoyer.

I also recommend to get into the habit of searching for options on search.nixos.org/options and for packages on search.nixos.org/packages which are great resources to know what you can set or install and already packages.

You can also check my nixos config on examples for how to package sddm theme and shell scripts.

I also have a couple programs on my selfhosted gitea that use flakes for packaging which you can checkout also.

code.cronyakatsuki.xyz/crony/nixos

fiddlestix ,

This is really useful. Thanks a lot! (Agree about the wiki).

Max_P ,
@Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me avatar

IMO Mint is to Ubuntu what Manjaro is to Arch: a pile of duct tape in the name of user experience ready to blow at the worst time, down to the TLS certificate mishaps.

People pick really weird distros to worship…

zloubida ,
@zloubida@lemmy.world avatar

It’s strange to worship any distro.

backhdlp ,
@backhdlp@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

The only distro we should worship is Hannah Montana Linux

kusivittula ,

when i decided to dump windows, i tried lots of distros. most would refuse to install or even boot to live, and the ones that do install successfully have issues with nvidia. like parts of the screen going unresponsive, constantly reverting to 60 hz, and just completely crashing. ubuntu does all three, fedora won’t even install, arch distros can’t find any of my sound devices. but mint works. no nvidia issues, no crashing, all devices work, refresh rate stays at 120. that’s some damn good duct tape.

themarty27 ,

More like Ubuntu is to Debian what Manjaro is to Arch. And then Linux Mint takes the nice stuff from Ubuntu but does away with the bullshit.

UnfortunateShort ,

I think you give Manjaro a little too much credit here. Not that I want to hate on it, but Ubuntu is much less closely related to Debian than Manjaro is to Arch.

themarty27 ,

Yeah, my point was more that both Manjaro and Ubuntu are systematically mismanaged derivatives of brilliant upstream distros with regular blunders in their development process, but with inexplicably large communities.

3volver ,

Linux Mint has been good so far, but Debian is still the one I’m going to use mainly.

ProdigalFrog , (edited )

Hell yeah Linux Mint Debian Edition

TimeSquirrel , (edited )
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

At that point, what are you using Mint for? The Cinammon DE?

IMHO, KDE feels much more modern, while Cinammon kind of feels like it's stuck in 2003. It reminds me of the stock gray boxy Windows 9x/NT/2000 interface.

phuntis ,
@phuntis@sopuli.xyz avatar

I love cinnamon it’s the main reason I use mint I tried debian with mint but the theming was ugly but the cinnamon on mint mmm beautiful I find it very comfortable and familiar like all the good parts of windows 7 just with a tad bit more modern design

apprehensively_human ,

I think Cinnamon is version 6 on Mint while Debian is stuck on a v5 build.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I stuck an Arc theme on it and that modernized it a lot.

To me, Cinnamon sits somewhere between the extremes of Gnome and KDE.

Gnome is an Android launcher with a concussion. Every major update is a list of things it can’t do anymore. Hopefully by Gnome 52 the system won’t even POST let alone boot. Every utility is a blank window with an empty menu up in the top bar that does as little of its job as it can, apparently in service to some “blank is beautiful” aesthetic.

KDE feels like the control panel of a nuclear power plant, LOADS of crap everywhere. Widgets and wodgets and panels and sidebars where does it end? Every utility is an incorrectly sized window completely crammed full of drop downs, radio buttons and text fields with several tabs and sub-menus with lots of options, because what if esoteric use case?

Cinnamon is a middle ground in between; they have a “most users, most of the time” approach so that UIs are understandable and digestible, and usually let you do what you want to do, without being uselessly blank or obsessively crowded.

Cinnamon doesn’t need therapy, Gnome and KDE do.

M500 ,

Yeah, this is me completely, although I did use Fedora kde spin as I was getting tired of the mint ui. I used it exclusively for many many years and the steamdeck completely changed my opinion.

puppy ,

steamdeck completely changed my opinion.

What do you mean? Did it convince you to keep using KDE or did you go back to another desktop afterwards?

M500 ,

Sorry, what I mean is that steamdeck desktop mode made me love kde plasma and decide to switch from mint to kde plasma.

SpaceNoodle ,

hell yeah mint

Diplomjodler ,

Well, I’m still in the noob stage and i intend to stay there. My OS is just a means to an end and Mint is perfect for that.

folkrav ,

That’s fine. Most people aren’t “Windows pros” either.

agressivelyPassive ,

My windows have arches, BTW.

Pan_Ziemniak ,

Saaaame. Been using Mint almost exclusively for 5-10 yrs and i still feel like im playing in the wading pool of what u can do with it. I learn more as I need to, and generally enjoy that process. I always feel super satisfied with myself when i use the terminal, even if its sudo apt-get install Firefox.

Diplomjodler , (edited )

Whenever I need to do something, I’ll figure it out. Sometimes it’s a pain, like getting VNC to work. But then I’ll write down the most important bits and duly forget the rest. I just want this stuff to work.

spez ,

I don’t have any need for arch, fedora is fine as it is. Might try arch if I have more reliable internet someday, my main concern is my system going brrrr one evening when I need to do some important legal work.

Armando3996 ,

If you need the stablest of stable stuff there’s nixos.

zephr_c ,

Meanwhile I’m over here dual booting Mint and Artix. I like fun, bleeding edge hobby distros and reliable boring ones that do everything I really need completely reliably.

rtxn ,

Read this and your brain might get a new wrinkle: it’s possible to appreciate multiple distributions for their own merits.

Steve ,

i.imgur.com/suaSSMr.jpeg

Waffelson ,

Why didn’t you just paste a picture in the comment? https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f0bc86ed-fc82-4248-8d45-f2284cae72ea.pngThat’s more faster

Steve ,

I’m using memmy, and I dont see an obvious way to do that.

Steve ,

i.imgur.com/suaSSMr_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=…

This is what happens when I copypaste the same image

Steve ,

Furthermore I cant even expand your thumbnail.

That said my phone has been glitching like crazy so idk

rtxn , (edited )

Copy-pasting the image will upload it to the lemmy instance, taking up storage space. You should instead embed externally hosted images using the following markdown expression:


<span style="color:#323232;">![](</span><span style="font-style:italic;color:#323232;">https://i.imgur.com/suaSSMr.jpeg</span><span style="color:#323232;">)
</span>

https://i.imgur.com/suaSSMr.jpeg

Waffelson ,

Yes, this way you reduce the load on your instance, but I often see image hosting deleting images and I get scared when I see an imgur link because it often blocks image viewing for me

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Not shown: The top 0.05% - “Use whichever distro you’re satisfied with. The different distributions exist to offer choice, not to compete.”

lengau ,

Seriously… At SCaLE this year I saw people from various distro booths taking breaks and visiting other distro booths. Each time they looked genuinely interested and excited about what the other distro was doing.

Prunebutt ,

Seriously: this non-competitive behavior in the FOSS community is soo fucking refreshing!

Pan_Ziemniak ,

Almost like humans find cooperation is healthier than competition on the whole…

FOSS til i die, please.

Prunebutt ,

“Don’t compete! — competition is always injurious to the species, and you have plenty of resources to avoid it!” -Pjotr Kropotkin

Pan_Ziemniak ,

Based and breadpilled.

dharmacurious ,

My God I love Lemmy. Finding a Kropotkin quote in the wild? Outside of an anarchists sub? Without specifically searching for it?

It makes me feel less alone. Thank you.

Prunebutt ,

Glad to be able to quote it and receive so much positive feedback :)

lengau ,

I kinda feel like there’s very little overlap between distro fans and distro developers. Probably because distro devs tend to know all the dirty secrets of their distro.

You go on Reddit or wherever and it’s all “distro X is evil, use distro Y instead,” “No, Y is terrible! Use Z!” And then you sit at a table with a SuSE developer, a Fedora developer and an Ubuntu developer and the conversation is all “so how are you guys dealing with this issue?” “Oh, I think we came up with a great solution, I’ll share the patch set with you!” “Wonderful, thanks! By the way I opened up a merge request on your stuff because we figured out how to fix that namespaces issue.”

ChicoSuave ,

Capitalism thrives on exclusivity, teaching people that others doing the same thing is competition and not friendship.

SexualPolytope , (edited )
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Different distros are better at different things. Need a stable distro for your grandma? Use Debian or Mint. Need latest software? Use Arch or Gentoo. (And people do need latest software sometimes. For playing games, or in my case, for doing research. The F is FOSS stands for Free after all.) Similarly, there are server distros like AlmaLinux tuned for high reliability. I think it’s counterproductive to argue about the “best” distro.

I guess the meme technically doesn’t say that Mint is the best, but it kinda gives off that feeling by ridiculing Arch users.

ramius345 ,

Use Linux professionally. Worked with RHEL for years. Current gig uses Debian servers. Daily driver is a system 76 machine with the pop OS that came on it. Debian derivatives make great daily drivers for those of us that just need a browser, terminal, working wifi, and the ability to build and run containers.

stebator , (edited )
  • Don’t forget, that the Mint developers and developers of other “user-friendly distros” do very hard work, so you can enjoy less-hassle distro.
  • But it is very boring for “Never Settle” philosophy to use such distros.
  • Don’t forget, that some people enjoy tinkering thing around them. Mint, Pop!_OS, Fedora etc are simply not interesting for them. They choose the hardest possible way and enjoy it.
Lightfire228 ,

My first “daily driver” distro was Arch, and i love every minute of it.

It’s a tinkerer’s dream

hesusingthespiritbomb ,

I’m old enough to remember this being Ubuntu.

possiblylinux127 ,

More like Fedora with a bunch of VMs

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