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Why do people still recommend Thinkpads for Linux when there are Linux-oriented manufacturers now?

I’ve noticed in the Linux community whenever someone asks for a recommendation on a laptop that runs Linux the answer is always “Get a Thinkpad” yet Lenovo doesn’t seem to be a big Linux contributor or ally. There’s also at least six Linux/FOSS-oriented computer manufacturers now:

So what gives? Why the love for a primarily Windows-oriented laptop when there are better alternatives?

Mane25 ,

First of all I wouldn’t use a pre-installed OS (I would always wipe and install my own for security reasons).

Secondly: Thinkpads (at least when I bought mine, last year) let you buy them without an OS and don’t charge you for it.

Thirdly: the linked manufacturers above tend to be either US-centric and/or more expensive than Thinkpads.

Soleos ,

Same reason most people recommend gettinf a Honda/Toyota when asked for a general recommendation for a car. If you need to ask the question, then your needs are probably not that specialized. So something generally reliable, widely accessible, and good value would be appropriate. Lenovo still tends to fit that description.

ebits21 ,
@ebits21@lemmy.ca avatar

I love my Thinkpad.

Lots of Linux devs love their Thinkpads.

The result is that Thinkpads are very well supported. They’re also generally very well made so I hope to use it for a decade.

silvercove ,

Lenovo makes great computers. They have amazing price-to-performance ratios.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@kbin.social avatar

Lenovo makes great computers.

Used to. No longer.

BCsven ,

The only reason I wouldn’t buy Lenovo is they were caught twice shipping laptops with spyware, and on my NAS their upgrade firmware contained google ad banners. While this will not affect a linux reinstall it just shows they are a shit company

silvercove ,

American producers are shipping NSA spyware as well. If this is a concern (which it should be), best thing is to install Linux on it yourself.

BitSound ,

What do you mean by NSA spyware? Anything that I can think of along those lines isn’t really the same thing as what Lenovo did.

silvercove ,

arstechnica.com/…/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factor…

BitSound ,

That’s not really the same thing. It’s also bad, but the producers aren’t shipping that themselves, the NSA modifies it the devices after shipment. That’s in some ways worse, since installing Linux yourself won’t help against adversarial firmware/hardware.

BreakDecks ,

They are cheap and durable, and they work with most major Linux distros without much headache.

I have a spec’d out S76 Lemur, which is a great laptop for throwing in a backpack as a daily driver, and really packs a punch with a small footprint.

But I also have a couple ThinkPads that cost less than $100 to replace that I use for doing experiments in the field where a laptop is more likely to get damaged. No need to needlessly drag thousands of extra dollars in kit out into a mountain trail to do radio experiments. For that kind of work, these old systems have more than enough resources, and if I fall in a stream, or get caught in rain, the worst I have to do is replace the system for $80 refurbished on Amazon.

Of course, I’ve never actually had any issues requiring replacement, but ThinkPads are really hard to break. I’m not as convinced about the Lemur’s durability, and would rather take fewer risks with it.

Maoo ,
@Maoo@hexbear.net avatar

I haven’t found one that will reasonably sell me a warranty and that has a good reputation. Warranty cost is a proxy for how likely it will be to break and is insurance against having to shell out another $1k+ over a 3 or 4 year period. System76 is the only one I’d consider and their 3-year warranty is nearly $400. Thinkpad warranties are $150 for the same level of support and $200 for the warranty where they physically fly a person to fix your computer within a couple days.

makingStuffForFun , (edited )
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

In Australia you get these “warranties” regardless. You don’t need to purchase them.

I tested lenovo on this when my x1 carbon broke, a year outside of it’s limited warranty period.

They wanted to charge me. I reminded them on Australian consumer law, and they instantly agreed to repair and ship it at no cost.

They will all try to get around it, but as soon as you mention it. They comply

Maoo ,
@Maoo@hexbear.net avatar

Lucky ducks

makingStuffForFun ,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Not lucky, but worked for.

They still sell warranties, but only due to people not knowing about our strong laws. This is partially why I post about this when it comes up, to help educate people on their rights.

outbound ,

Refurbished ThinkPads are awesome!

  • Availability - ThinkPads are very popular in corporate environments and are generally replaced every 2-3 years. Although mostly Intel CPUs, there is a wide variety CPU+GPU available from lightweight to high performance.
  • Tough + well built + last forever
  • Easy to upgrade/repair. They’re very user-accessible and its simple to upgrade RAM or SSD/M.2 drives. Plus, because they are so popular in the corporate environment, replacement parts (from batteries to WiFi+Bluetooth chipsets to trckpads) are very available and cheap.
  • Well supported in most (if not all) linux distros. Graphics just work, trackpads just work, WiFi just works.
  • Cheap.

Sent from my ThinkPad T580 (with both an internal and removable battery, I get 10+ hours of battery life)

Franzia , (edited )

I’ve heard of potential security issues when buying them. How can I mitigate that - buying from a safe source, wiping them etc.?

Thanks it sounds like simply wiping the system is enough to get around security flaws.

rufus ,

We’re talking about Linux here. You’ll probably wipe it anyways. Chances are slim the company that used it before put Arch on it.

outbound ,

Always wipe and do a fresh install. If you’re installing Linux, its unlikely that the refurbisher will have installed your flavour of Linux anyway. If you want to dual-boot with Windows, most business ThinkPads come with a Windows Pro licence - just download the ISO and install it fresh, then install Linux.

MagneticFusion ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    derbolle ,

    I’m curious. why?

    severien ,

    The biggest issue was the phone - Librem 5 - many customers waited 4 (or 5?) years and what they got was underwhelming. Purism originally provided “refund anytime” policy, but once customers started using that they lied they didn’t promise that (disproven with wayback machine). The only reliable way to get the money back is to sue them in small court. They also had some other shady stuff.

    MojoMcJojo ,

    I know nothing, why is Purism a scam?

    ProdigalFrog ,

    Louis Rossmann did a video exposing their behavior, which was confirmed by others in the purism subreddit. They’re acting super scummy and shady, leading people on for months and years about getting refunds and then ghosting them.

    Also @ [email protected]

    PipedLinkBot ,

    Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/watch?v=wKegmu0V75s

    Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

    I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

    aport ,

    A few years ago I bought a librem 13 and it was the biggest piece of trash I’ve ever had the displeasure of owning.

    BitSound ,

    Scam is too strong of a word. I’ve got a Librem 5 and it works. I had to wait several years to get it, yeah, but that’s about what I expected. Can’t comment on their laptops, but I still doubt that scam is the right word.

    Swedneck ,
    @Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    sham, maybe? like a scam but it’s just REALLY not worth it and it not actively malicious, just incompetent

    qyron ,

    The first machine I ever installed with a distro was an MSI Ultrabook and Linux, out of the box, visibly improved the overall performance of the machine, with no need for benchmarking. After tweaking and fine tunning, it only improved.

    After that came a long series of Asus, a few HP, one or two Dell. Always flawless installs, out of the box. The only exception I can remember of was a very specific HP model where the modem had to be manually installed.

    Having a hand full of companies designing and building for linux feels like being part of an exclusive, Apple-like club; the prices are high, the choice limited.

    We should be pressing the industry to recognize the linux ecosystem for what it is: a stable OS, with an ever growing user base with money to spend that want quality support for the equipments they buy.

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    People will say many things. But at the end of the day, it’s the keyboard. I honestly cannot think of a company that does keyboards better than Lenovo (formerly IBM).

    zhenyapav ,

    Most of these are pretty expensive. I got a used Thinkpad for less than 200 bucks, and it works great for the price and my use case.

    BitSound ,

    The X1 Carbon series is popular with Linux kernel devs, so it’s had a lot of TLC. It makes a big difference for some stuff like sleeping. My Thinkpads handled sleeping really well, and I could expect to leave it sitting for at least a week and come back to somewhat low battery. My Framework laptops, as nice as they are otherwise, will drain the battery during sleep in 24h, no matter what I’ve tried. The situation is apparently better on the newer-gen Framework laptops, and IMO Framework’s open nature will lead to a similar situation to Thinkpads, but it’s not quite there yet.

    Apart from sleep, I’ve heard complaints about the manufacturing quality of some of the other options, but haven’t used them myself so can’t verify. Might be why some people recommend the Thinkpads, though. I do really like the quality of the Framework, and I’d recommend people take a look at them over Thinkpads now, unless they care about sleep battery usage.

    To chime in with some of the other answers, price also makes a difference. Thinkpads have been around long enough that there’s a nice large used market. I got a rock-solid Thinkpad T480 for a few hundred dollars from some dude on Craigslist. My Framework is higher-specced and was paid for by my work, but it still starts out ~$800. I think it’ll just take time before other manufacturers have a similar situation.

    ExLisper ,

    Also Vant and Slimbook from Spain. I own a PC from Vant and I’m happy with it but I would think twice before buying a laptop for 1.5k when I can just get a used lenovo for half that price and use it for next 10 years.

    someguy3 ,

    I’ve heard the ThinkPad keyboard is excellent (I welcome input).

    KnightontheSun ,

    The olde ones are nice. Not sure about the newer ones. I have two T420s and one T430. The 420 was the last of the chicklet keys I think. Can swap CPU/RAM as well. The 430 has the CPU soldered in like most major brand laptops do meow.

    danielton ,
    @danielton@lemmy.world avatar

    System76 and other Linux-oriented hardware “manufacturers” basically take Clevo laptops and rebadge and mark them up. I got one from System76 and have been less than impressed with it considering what they charged for it. The screen is awful (purple tint to it) and the hardware didn’t fully work with any distro for a while. I wished I’d just bought a refurbished Thinkpad.

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