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flork ,
@flork@lemy.lol avatar

Fedora Kinote just works.

monobot ,

It is very hard, time consuming and boring to iron out those finishing issues in any software product. You need team of people being paid for that.

When doing it for fun, I just go until it works and until it is fun. As soon as I come to those last 20% I never touch it anymore.

So ai doubt it will happen until more companies start paying decelopera to do it. But I don’t see the business model in that, so I doubt it will get better fast.

SapphironZA ,

I think it should be: “Software that is yours”

Overall, I think more focus should be put on consolidating similar projects.

Do we really need 6 different window managers that follow the same design logic?

Do we really need each major distro to have its own package manager?

How many image and PDF viewers do we need? How many music players?

Can we convince Ubuntu that no one wants snaps and they are wasting developer resources.

The freed up capacity should be focused on better windows app compatibility. Something akin to Valve’s push in gaming.

palarith ,

It does just work for normal users.

Normies use the installed os. Just install a browser and office suite, thats all the need and care about.

possiblylinux127 , (edited )

Mac OS is not a “just works” experience. It is heavily tied to icloud and Apple services and everything is janky.

Maybe if Mac OS matured a bit I would consider using it but for now it is in a broken unusable state.

Telorand ,

If you appreciate autonomy, avoid MacOS. Their whole business model is to suck you into their technological ecosystem. The fact that their stuff works in any way outside of their expensive, walled garden is unintentional.

olympicyes ,

I was going to refute your comment but to be honest I use it largely because of those features. I’ve used MacOS for over 30 years and recently bought an AMD workstation for development work when my MacBook didn’t cut it anymore. It would be a good experiment to try an all local MacOS experience to see how it stacks up and I think it would probably be ok. You can install a lot of desktop apps using Brew to keep your system up to date. The main advantage that Mac has over Linux is that a lot of corporate software is available that otherwise can only be obtained on Windows. When I realized that windows in a VM on Linux wasn’t for me I more or less converted my Linux machine to a server for most use cases.

GustavoM ,
@GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

By telling users to change their mindset, by showing em how control is important and how the “just werks” mentality imposed by Microsoft is more detrimental than anything.

lily33 ,

“Just works” is not a mentality imposed by Microsoft, and has nothing to do with loss of control. It’s simply (a consequence of) the idea that things which can be automated, should be. It is about good defaults, not lack of options.

deadbeef79000 ,

It was literally the tag line for Windows 98 I think!

The gag was that it just (barely) works.

mumblerfish ,

I have been forced to use mac now for like a year, and I don’t get the whole “just works” opinion of it. Like I have had so many issues with just basic stuff. Turning off mouse acceleration and the mouse still feels all slimy. Highest mouse speed is so slow and setting it higher requires some crazy tricks, which also does not work consistently through boots. It can’t wake up a lot of monitors, I have to turn them off and on manually. If it cannot connect to a monitor properly but tries, it like disables your keyboard for a few seconds while trying. Some items in the settings menu take a long time to load, as in if I reboot, log in, open settings, there is no mouse settings.

Extrasvhx9he ,

Kinda don’t think you can its one of the beauties of Linux, there’s so many different flavors of it. Best thing that would’ve helped me as a beginner would’ve been like a collection of all the wiki’s and basic knowledge in a single space instead of searching through different sites for a problem or terminal commands, which I bet exists but I just never looked too hard. Also documentation of common problems would’ve been big for me (especially for older devices) like drivers no longer being supported by kernels and solutions like using the open source version instead.

jlow ,

MacOS being a bad example here since Apple only needs to make its OS work on a very small set of hardware that they control wheras Linux (and Windows, yes) need to work on probably hundreds of thousand if not millions of devices (including Macs 👌) with at least the same amount of peripherals combined in almost any imaginable way. That’s a completely different task.

wuphysics87 ,

Most people have had great answers coming from the company side of things. I’ll take it from the standpoint of individuals like us helping someone linux curious see the light, while still having the “just works” experience.

Do not give them any choices. None. Put them on your stable distro of choice for a new user, call whatever that is “Linux”, and be on your way.

But why? Isn’t that antithetical to everything we value? Yes and no. We value choice almost above anything else, but that doesn’t “just work” for most people. Which of those do you value more?

deadbeef79000 ,

No-one who buys a PC with windows preinstalled gets any choice at all… and had the preinstalled malware cme with it.

wuphysics87 ,

That’s true. Most are perfectly fine provided they have a computer ready to use. Straight out of the box. Immediately. The lack of choice itself is comforting. Everything moves forward. No lateral motion.

We must provide them that type of “thing that just works”. Constantly move forward. What is comfortable. What is familiar.

PseudoSpock ,
@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Simple, start teaching it in elementary school all the way up through high school. Apple did it long ago and got apple users out of those kids. Microsoft does it now, and now you have Windows users. Just need the computer education to be Linux centric from the start. It’s not that it’s different, it’s that it’s not what they grew up with and were taught.

possiblylinux127 ,

Windows hasn’t been in schools for a while. It is all Chrome OS

krakenfury ,

Linux is a tool that big corporate entities have profited greatly from for many years, and will continue to. Same with BSD, Apache, Docker, MySQL, Postgres, SSH…

Valve, Sys76, Framework, etc. Are proving that using Linux to serve an end user market is also profitable, and are capable of supporting enterprise use-cases.

I understand that there may be specific problems to solve wrt improving adoptability, usability, compatibility, etc., but Linux is doing more than ok within the context of the FOSS ecosystem (and increasingly without).

Your thinking is slightly skewed, IMHO. Linux doesn’t have an inherent incentive to compete with MacOS or MS, and if it did, it would be subject to the same pressures that encourage bad behavior like spying on users, creating walled gardens, and so forth.

crimsonpoodle ,

But Linux is open source? So if hypothetically so distro adopted spying al la windows couldn’t people just change distros? tbh I also think the question is slightly confusing as I don’t understand why OP thinks Mac OS is not standardized but I digress.

krakenfury ,

Yeah sure, a distro could start spying on users. How easy it would be would depend on their distribution model, and how willing they are to violate the GPL.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

The way to get Linux more appealing is to get proprietary software makers, like Adobe, Microsoft (Office), you know the actual things people need to do their job, to make software for Linux. Steam Deck is a good example of this, it works because Steam ported the games to Linux…

possiblylinux127 ,

Looks at the current state of Microsoft and Adobe

I’m good.

Anyway you can’t really do much about a company not supporting Linux. Either find an alternative or don’t use Linux.

Mandy ,

Linux actually needs to just work first

gravitas_deficiency ,

Atomic OSes should be evangelized more aggressively to laypersons. IMO, they’re great for 3 specific use cases:

  • gaming (bazzite) - personally, I want my gaming box to “just work”
  • thin clients/low-powered laptops used as an entry point to your homelab or other remote systems - again, I like having at least one fairly bulletproof and super stable system to use as a human:homelab gateway/admin machine
  • non-techies. If the update fails, just roll back. Can’t remember if that’s generally an automated recovery process or not, but that sort of idiot-proofing is precisely what the general public needs in the context of Linux. Because there are a lot of idiots out there.
BlueSquid0741 ,

Absolutely. Look at Aeon. I turn it on and do what I need to do.

Later I might see a quick pop up that says system has been updated. It didn’t require intervention. It didn’t even tell me it was happening, it just informed me after the fact.

If anything broke, I would never know because on the next boot if something failed it just uses the previous snapshot to boot. As far as I am concerned the system is working just like it always has.

But even as recently as this week I see people saying: immutable? No don’t make it a bad experience for them! Just recommend Ubuntu for newcomers! >:/

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