Yes. Laptops and desktop machines are included in the desktop platform together. We use the browser useragent to determine the platform and there is not enough information contained in the useragent to distinguish between laptops and desktops. That is why we do not have a separate laptop platform.
So it sounds like they’re using the useragent to distinguish between mobile and desktop. So most likely, yes, steam decks would be counted as desktops, but only to the degree that they are used to browse the internet. I suspect most steam deck users don’t do that, but I don’t know, I don’t have a steam deck.
I had fedora installed the last few years, and was digging flatpak.... until I wasn't. One day I ran out of disk space - 230 Gb of flatpak dependencies. I run a pretty slim system, so what the actual heck? Did some research, learned how to flush cached and redundant packages, shrunk my flatpak deps to.... 150 Gb
It was likely the build up of a few years' packages, updates, and so on, but it eventually came to a head and I had to wipe and load. Maybe it's better now, but I think I started that install around Fedora 34? So not too long ago
Nope. I’ve been running Debian for the past six years after I got tired of messing with arch. I’m over my shiny new thing syndrome and am happy with old but stable software. I’ve tried some flatpaks but the only two that I use are Spotify and signal. They take a lot of space and updating is slow.
I agree that stability is important, perhaps paramount, in a computing system. Still, some software like Cura, improve with every release, and it is worth upgrading for every new feature.
Anyways, I have never been concerned with space. On the whole programs don’t take up that much space compared to everything else I would put on my system like games. Also, I am the kind of person who wants all the software they would ever use installed on their system. I want my computer to be useful even when the internet goes out.
If you’re playing games, then latest software in terms of kernel and libraries are important. There’s a reason why valve switched to arch as a base for steamos. For my use case, I do a lot of coding in C using emacs so thing don’t really change that much. To each their own, that’s the beauty of Linux!
Thank you for saying this! The negativity here has been jarring. I understand preferences, but no reason to be mean about them.
I wanted to stay with Arch awhile back but I kept messing up the install of Nvidia drivers in like every distro, so I just have a lot of apprehension. Maybe it is better now. Still, I am in a good place distro wise.
Emacs the portable lisp machine that can do virtually everything. That must be so fun.
I use flatpaks mostly. Flatpak dependencies (runtimes) are stored separately from the host system so and don’t bloat my system with unwanted libraries and binaries. App data and configs are stored separately and better organized. Everything runs in sanboxes. I use overrides extensively. All these are very convenient for me.
That is a good deal. I was briefly under the impression that those were not accessible, but that would be totally against the principles of everything Linux is about. So permissions set by the developer are just their biased defaults, nothing permanent.
As someone who uses Linux but only kinda, what advantages does flatpack offer over installing something with the provided package manager? (In my case that’s apt)
I personally still prefer native, but flatpak is my goto for whenever something isn’t working or when the official repos are outdated.
The other day I tried to use Malt for blender but it wouldn’t work on the native version because it was using the wrong version of python. The flatpak version works perfectly with Malt, but for some reason I don’t feel like troubleshooting, the OptiX denoiser doesn’t work.
Still though, flatpak is a welcome option and is way better than snap.
That is so strange. I think people are underestimating how important up-to-date packages are for certain kinds of workflows, and short of reinstalling everything onto a rolling distro, the only sane solution is something like Flatpak, or directly installing every new binary as it comes out, which can suck and does not guarantee having all dependencies.
I remember in the beginning when leaving windows how quiet everything was. No notifications from windows about all kinds of shit, no ads and no interruptions. Have you noticed how calm it feels?
Assuming it isn’t you first time: there’s a slight learning curve, but once you’re passed a few months and you’ve resolved a few issues on your own you won’t look back!
Look into KDE extensions to customize your desktop just the way you want it! My windows wobble around or fizzle out of existence when I close them. :)
My first introduction to Linux was back in College in 2005. I ended up doing it off college but I’ve messed with Linux on and off over the years. A few months back I put GalliumOS on my Chromebook and I’ve done all sorts of stuff with the Raspberry pi. I wouldn’t say I’m proficient in the slightest and I know very few terminal commands but I think I can manage.
100%. I just wrote a long post surmising this somewhere, but I’m switching my 5 year old Arch install to something like Debian Stable/Testing because I use almost entirely Flatpaks for my user applications (I would do 100% of them if every app I used had a Flatpak), and it’s really just a much better idea to run bleeding edge on only the stuff you care about instead of an entire system.
For sure. I think I rolling distros are great, and I may consider it in the future. Right now Linux Mint is amazingly solid for me, and has evaporated any interest for experimentation, because I have had literally 0 problems, and it magically takes care of my Nvidia card.
It’s here, it’s there, it’s everywhere. The problem with replacing things that work with something “better” is that “better” is subjective, so you end up with a new “better” way every few years, and maintaining existing systems becomes a god awful slog. See the JavaScript ecosystem.
The bash I wrote 10 years ago still works today, and it will still work in 10 more years. The same bash will very likely work on your computer, on a remote server, etc. This is the power of not chasing “better” all the time.
Try running a Ruby or Node program from 10 years ago today on your computer. Now, try running it on a random Linux server.
Please do not take this as a slight against Ruby or Node, or any other high level programming language. Bash compared to those is simply apples and oranges, they are not the same thing.
By all means, if you have a project that requires a Ruby runtime anyway, write operational scripts with Ruby, run them with Rake, etc.
Want a portable script that doesn’t depend on a complex runtime? Use bash.
If bash is too limiting, use Perl. No, seriously. Perl is fine. It is about as ubiquitously available as bash, and the standard library likely has what you need to get the job done. People blindly dismiss Perl because some blog post told them to, usually in the context of writing application code. You’re not writing application code, you’re writing scripts. Would you write an application with bash? No.
Also, Logitech makes the only Linux compatible bluetooth mouse (that I'm aware of) that supports dual booting with Windows - the
Logitech M720 Triathlon. My other Logitech Bluetooth mouse works fine in each OS individually but has to be re-paired after each OS switch :/
The MX Ergo has two bluetooth profiles stored on it, so you can switch seamlessly between any two devices. I use one of mine with both a Windows desktop and an MBP.
The reddit API debacle sent me down a Lemmy, FOSS, Linux, privacy, hacker rabbit hole that I will hopefully and happily never have to leave. My eyes are opened to a better future. I’ll probably be duel booting windows for awhile still to keep up for my job, but I have been able to start transitioning away pretty easily thanks to the hard work of linux desktop devs. I am so grateful for the FOSS community and hope to contribute myself someday.
@jackpot You add every device to every other device and they connect directly to each other. If direct connection isn't possible (1 out of 10 times) then a relay server is used. The relays are provided by the community for free (I am running one).
I’ve been mostly using Windows in a VM. I’ve not booted into my Windows partition for months now while sitting there almost untouched for 2 and an half years, and in one week or two I am getting rid of it. And with my Steam Deck coming I will install Windows on that on an SD Card, so in case I ever need a physical Windows system for something (likely some anti-cheat crippled game, or Microsoft Store exclusive game, or a software that for some reason doesn’t work on Wine or in the VM) I have one ready.
Let’s see here. We’re talking about a thirty-plus-year-old language that was deliberately written as a superset of sh from 1979. Its main purpose is to glue together other command-line programs on 'NIXish systems to automate complex procedures for sysadmins. Using it as a general-purpose programming language, while not impossible, is kinda dumb if you have any other options. Within its original niche, it ain’t broke, so there’s no need to fix it.
It’s a contemporary of Tcl and Perl, not of Python and Java (and sh is from the era where microcomputers mostly used BASIC dialects). Unlike Perl, it didn’t bolt on object orientation or other more modern features afterwards—and really, Perl was intended as just the kind of “shell script killer” you seem to be thinking of in your introduction. However, it never completely displaced the shell built-in scripting languages even in the days before it fell out of favour itself. Might be that there’s a reason for that.
My advice is to restart with Arch (I use Arch btw). Not Manjaro, I’m talking Arch.
I think using/installing Arch as well as its barebones nature FORCES you to understand how Linux works differently than Windows with concepts like root, bootloader, terminal emulation, and disk partitioning, just to give you some examples. At the same time, Arch has excellent documentation, a great package manager in pacman, and rolling release model that greatly simplifies maintainance during daily use so you can tune it to exactly how you want it.
I believe doing it the hard way at first will make it easier for you in the long run if you really want to understand Linux, and Arch is just the right amount of difficult to make you learn Linux, whereas Gentoo would be too hard and you don’t learn enough from using Ubuntu/Debian/Mint.
But yeah, if you just want to use something that works well out of the box, then Ubuntu is great, there’s nothing wrong with using the more user friendly distros.
I tried that after already having about 2 years experience with Ubuntu desktop and an Ubuntu server (but still mostly a Windows user). I’m also a software developer.
And I failed to install Arch on a laptop the last time I tried it out. Ubuntu ran flawlessly, trying to go step by step through the Arch installation I hit a random error (at a step that was very straight forward and easy in the documentation) and got stuck. Messed around with it and at some point gave up.
I mean that’s years ago, it probably works a lot better nowadays and especially on more modern hardware, but even so for someone new to Linux I’d never tell them to go with a do-it-yourself install. Slap Ubuntu on that bad boy, let them install a few packages, do a handful of terminal commands and they’ll get much farther. Instead of giving up three hours in because a random command (that they still don’t understand) is broken.
If you look at the original post, his goal is to learn and understand Linux and he is on his third attempt after already trying Ubuntu remix, which is why I made this suggestion.
Again, if he just wanted to use Linux on his computer, then there is nothing wrong with using a more user friendly distro at all. But for his particular needs he described, then Arch is a better distro for learning how Linux actually works.
But as OP said, they already failed several times. That’s like telling someone who nearly drowned in the shallow end of a pool to go jump into the ocean.
See here:
So what would be a good distro to look into for a novice and where should I look for a tutorial?
For me it feels like they do want to learn, but aren’t comfortable yet as a day to day user. They want to use Linux, but struggle with commands and how to use it. Having a stable and easy to use system you can use each day without trouble would probably be a better start than telling them to fiddle with Arch. Give them an easy distro and when they want to learn more they can use the crappy old laptop and try to install Arch on there (while leaving their daily driver alone).
I think I learned the most when using Ubuntu for school, 90% of it was easy and straight forward. 10% of it was hell, like back in the day getting HDMI or audio to work. But because the 90% were there I just dug in and spent a dozen hours to troubleshoot the rest.
Well, I think “drowning” could be a bit much. Don’t want to make Linux sound that scary now.
I think there is a reason why “Learning Python the Hard Way” is so popular, because although it’s harder, it leads to learning better fundamentals which makes things easier in the long run.
So, I think OP should still give Arch a try, maybe he (they?) will be more receptive to this method, and there’s no harm in trying.
I’m a long time Linux user but I’m really lazy. I recently installed Arch to try it out again as last time I did it was maybe 2012. Personally, manually setting up the hard drive partitions on initial install is just annoying enough to be too much work (I have a lot of drives) but luckily there’s an installer that does that part for you. Everything else you have to do is sensible and easy and actually ends up being less work in the long run. The wiki is also extremely informative, helpful and correct.
Arch probably can be a beginner distro just because if you have a problem it’s so much easier to find out how to fix it on the internet thanks to the wiki and the forums. Something as mundane as installing nvidia drivers in Debian can be a massive ordeal and the minimum required skill level to fix it yourself if it doesn’t work on the first attempt is very high.
Arch is amazing for all of these reasons, and I agree that by design it’ll give you a lot of insight in to what’s under the hood that most other distos tuck away.
I’ve used it in the past and ended up moving away from it because it requires quite a bit more effort to maintain, which got tiresome.
Arch has an active and dedicated community, so obviously there’s a whole lot of people out there who feel it’s worth the effort. Maybe OP will too. But it’s not a distro to take on lightly.
I didn’t stick with Linux as a daily driver until I tried Manjaro. Learned enough to be comfortable installing Arch and ran that for a while, but after installing it a few times I was looking something a little bit simpler to setup. I now prefer EndeavourOS which is basically Arch with a nice installer and a few QoL apps.
Flatpaks are my second choice when there isn’t a recent enough version in the repos. They’re fine but take 1. too much storage space, and 2. are usually slower
I have never considered speed. For example, it may be foolish to use flatpaks for Blender or Godot engine? Or perhaps is it the startup speed that is slow?
yes i’m talking about the startup speed. It’s not as bad as snap, but noticeably slower with some apps (it can be annoying for a web browser for example)
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