9/10 desktop applications I use are flatpaks. Am on Arch and even when there’s an AUR for a package I’d prefer to use Flatpak. Just so I can use Flatseal to control permissions access on my applications.
I’m glad to see you’ve gotten a ton of feedback here, and I just wanted to add another comment in support of flatpaks and image-based computing. I’ve been using Linux extensively for about 15 years now, mostly Arch and Debian Sid. I’ve been a distro packager, and I’ve compiled plenty of my own apps over the years.
This past year I took Fedora Silverblue for a spin after following the project for quite some time, and I am convinced that the image-based system approach, coupled with containerized and sandboxed userspace applications, is the future of Linux for most users. It makes so much sense from nearly all perspectives; whether security, reliability, or flexibility.
Integral parts of the system are mounted read-only by default. Simple commands can rollback unwanted changes, upgrade to a new distro release, or even sideload an entirely different OS. System updates are automated, as are flatpak updates, and there is little-to-no risk to stability due to the very nature of the essentials-only system images. And if something catastrophic did happen, you’re just a reboot away from rolling it back.
Consider for a moment the collective energy and time that distro package maintainers must undertake on a weekly basis. Much of it simply repeated by each distro, building the same applications over and over again. Flatpaks are built once and deployed everywhere. Think of the collective potential that could be directed elsewhere.
Couple this with containers and the choice of distro matters even less. Arch, Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora are just a keystroke away. Yes, you can run containers on any distro of course, but you don’t gain any of the other ostree benefits mentioned above.
I have since moved all of my workstations to Silverblue and I don’t see myself ever going back to a traditional system again. If anything, I may start automating my own image deployments, similar to Universal Blue.
Yes, flatpak as a platform still needs some work, and so does ostree, but both are evolving quickly and will only get better with time.
To others who complain about needing Flatseal…in my opinion, this is a feature to be embraced, not loathed. Sane defaults are rarely sane for everyone, and Flatseal exists to give you complete control over what an app can or cannot see and do.
I’ve been using NixOS with flatpaks and distrobox and have had pretty much the same experience. NixOS provides rock solid base system, services, and CLI tools that are easy to configure and flatpaks provide the rest of the desktop applications.
One neat feature of installing eveything through flatpak is that you can update applications individually without having to upgrade the whole system.
Thank you for writing all this! Innovation is absolutely necessary not just in Linux, but all computing. People are comparing this to Window installs, and honestly it is probably more similar to MacOS installs. Yet, the difference is that the packages are audited by a community, and are not proprietary wildcards that might bite you in unexpected ways. Flatpaks are an options, not a replacement.
Dealing with software that does not work first try is a loathsome experience. Many people here are wearing their gray colored classes, opinions influenced by decades of tinkering, and are forgetting about the curse of knowledge.
If we want more people to adopt linux, Flatpaks absolutely help.
Lastly, saying image-based reminds my a lot about Smalltalk, which is nice. I like the idea of having hot-swappable operating systems to switch between that have all the work isolated in that image. Great for experimentation, and perhaps security.
I will definitely be checking out Fedora Silverblue. Going to download and make a VM for that now.
Brother MFC-xxxx whichever is available. Plug in the ethernet or connect to wifi and go. No drivers.
We’ve had a decade+ of solid use, the couple of times we’ve had issues we’ve had reasonably priced local service.
It’s because they’re lower-end “business” machines rather than any-level “consumer” grade crap.
We’ve had a bad run with off-brand toner shitting up the machine though. We probably spend about $600/year on genuine toner. But we do a lot of printing. I shudder to think what our inkjet costs would be though.
If you don’t need immediate printing facility, you might find printing ad hoc at Stationery Warehouse or the public library more cost effective!
Second the Brother MFC. We’re really happy with ours. Before that we had a HP LaserJet which actually was that bad either. I guess just avoid the cheap inkjet machines.
Probably never. They’re my third option after native packages and built-from-source packages/installs either manually or using the AUR. They’re convenient and the only option I tolerate of those newer package styles (Flatpak/Snap/AppImage), but seemingly having to download a new 800+MB runtime for small 32MB applications is ridiculously wasteful and I wouldn’t touch them if I didn’t have at least a TB of storage.
I’d rather have 5GB of binaries than deal with unmet dependencies one more time (despite many people claims, it is still easy to fall into), my only criticism for flatpak though, is that any kind of modification for a file requires you to navigate through at least ten directories.
Directories are probably the most offensive thing about all package management. Developers are happy to throw their files in .hidden directories anywhere they please. No real standards for that.
I don’t know what principles people are adhering to when it comes to the ideal computing environment, but having to deal with the minutia of installation problems to meet some kind of criteria is just not interesting to me either.
Quite the opposite, after fiddling with it for six months I fully uninstalled flatpak and deleted the directory to get away from the fact it kept downloading copies of nvidia drivers when I had moved to an AMD a year ago, and the drivers were locked from being manually removed even after I uninstalled all flatpak packages.
I’m an Arch user, trust me when I say I read the documentation.
Damn, alright. I am starting to get the hate for it. I think I am blinded by the sheer convenience of it. Also, I am probably sleeping on more up to date repositories that gets me what I want without using flatpaks.
Linux Mint has been babying me though. I love the comfort, and cinnamon is everything I need in a DE. I will need to see what I can do.
I have been using Linux exclusively for maybe 8 years now? I just never dived to deeply into power user territory. I can get around okay, and am comfortable with the terminal and all that, I was just never interested in spending too much time trying to customize everything.
For a period I was obsessed with alternative operating systems. I read that Haiku is basically ready for evey day use. I wonder how Redox is coming along…
Yes. Laptops and desktop machines are included in the desktop platform together. We use the browser useragent to determine the platform and there is not enough information contained in the useragent to distinguish between laptops and desktops. That is why we do not have a separate laptop platform.
So it sounds like they’re using the useragent to distinguish between mobile and desktop. So most likely, yes, steam decks would be counted as desktops, but only to the degree that they are used to browse the internet. I suspect most steam deck users don’t do that, but I don’t know, I don’t have a steam deck.
I had fedora installed the last few years, and was digging flatpak.... until I wasn't. One day I ran out of disk space - 230 Gb of flatpak dependencies. I run a pretty slim system, so what the actual heck? Did some research, learned how to flush cached and redundant packages, shrunk my flatpak deps to.... 150 Gb
It was likely the build up of a few years' packages, updates, and so on, but it eventually came to a head and I had to wipe and load. Maybe it's better now, but I think I started that install around Fedora 34? So not too long ago
Nope. I’ve been running Debian for the past six years after I got tired of messing with arch. I’m over my shiny new thing syndrome and am happy with old but stable software. I’ve tried some flatpaks but the only two that I use are Spotify and signal. They take a lot of space and updating is slow.
I agree that stability is important, perhaps paramount, in a computing system. Still, some software like Cura, improve with every release, and it is worth upgrading for every new feature.
Anyways, I have never been concerned with space. On the whole programs don’t take up that much space compared to everything else I would put on my system like games. Also, I am the kind of person who wants all the software they would ever use installed on their system. I want my computer to be useful even when the internet goes out.
If you’re playing games, then latest software in terms of kernel and libraries are important. There’s a reason why valve switched to arch as a base for steamos. For my use case, I do a lot of coding in C using emacs so thing don’t really change that much. To each their own, that’s the beauty of Linux!
Thank you for saying this! The negativity here has been jarring. I understand preferences, but no reason to be mean about them.
I wanted to stay with Arch awhile back but I kept messing up the install of Nvidia drivers in like every distro, so I just have a lot of apprehension. Maybe it is better now. Still, I am in a good place distro wise.
Emacs the portable lisp machine that can do virtually everything. That must be so fun.
I use flatpaks mostly. Flatpak dependencies (runtimes) are stored separately from the host system so and don’t bloat my system with unwanted libraries and binaries. App data and configs are stored separately and better organized. Everything runs in sanboxes. I use overrides extensively. All these are very convenient for me.
That is a good deal. I was briefly under the impression that those were not accessible, but that would be totally against the principles of everything Linux is about. So permissions set by the developer are just their biased defaults, nothing permanent.
As someone who uses Linux but only kinda, what advantages does flatpack offer over installing something with the provided package manager? (In my case that’s apt)
I personally still prefer native, but flatpak is my goto for whenever something isn’t working or when the official repos are outdated.
The other day I tried to use Malt for blender but it wouldn’t work on the native version because it was using the wrong version of python. The flatpak version works perfectly with Malt, but for some reason I don’t feel like troubleshooting, the OptiX denoiser doesn’t work.
Still though, flatpak is a welcome option and is way better than snap.
That is so strange. I think people are underestimating how important up-to-date packages are for certain kinds of workflows, and short of reinstalling everything onto a rolling distro, the only sane solution is something like Flatpak, or directly installing every new binary as it comes out, which can suck and does not guarantee having all dependencies.
I remember in the beginning when leaving windows how quiet everything was. No notifications from windows about all kinds of shit, no ads and no interruptions. Have you noticed how calm it feels?
Assuming it isn’t you first time: there’s a slight learning curve, but once you’re passed a few months and you’ve resolved a few issues on your own you won’t look back!
Look into KDE extensions to customize your desktop just the way you want it! My windows wobble around or fizzle out of existence when I close them. :)
My first introduction to Linux was back in College in 2005. I ended up doing it off college but I’ve messed with Linux on and off over the years. A few months back I put GalliumOS on my Chromebook and I’ve done all sorts of stuff with the Raspberry pi. I wouldn’t say I’m proficient in the slightest and I know very few terminal commands but I think I can manage.
100%. I just wrote a long post surmising this somewhere, but I’m switching my 5 year old Arch install to something like Debian Stable/Testing because I use almost entirely Flatpaks for my user applications (I would do 100% of them if every app I used had a Flatpak), and it’s really just a much better idea to run bleeding edge on only the stuff you care about instead of an entire system.
For sure. I think I rolling distros are great, and I may consider it in the future. Right now Linux Mint is amazingly solid for me, and has evaporated any interest for experimentation, because I have had literally 0 problems, and it magically takes care of my Nvidia card.
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