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Zetta ,

Haha I’ve been saying for fucking years that boutique lab growing meat outlets will pop up selling exotic animal meats and celebrity human meat. We are getting close to that future

HonkTonkWoman ,

“I’ll take a burger, mediums rare, & let’s do a 50/50 blend of Ground Chuck & Beyoncé on Sourdough.”

bluestribute ,

I’ve always wanted Antiviral to be real!

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

“Eat my ass!”

“Don’t mind if I do.”

x4740N ,

Don’t you get prions from canibalism

Also if this costs less than supermarket meat I could buy some beef and clone it

areyouevenreal ,

Yes and no. You get prions from eating a person that’s also infected with prions. Basically if you eat cloned meat of yourself it should be fine as you either already have prions, or you don’t already have prions. Prions manifest as either CJD if you got it naturally or Kuru if you got it through canibalism.

nifty ,
@nifty@lemmy.world avatar

I am going to say that it’s unethical for someone to eat others or themselves, lab grown or not, because the community members in a society want to 1) curtail or reduce suffering and 2) increase ways to promote better judgment and impulse controls.

1 - We treat cattle and animals for food production with such contempt and disdain and cruelty, and if we were to start eating humans (lab grown, self-eating or otherwise) we’ll treat humans the same. Delegating some humans to be eaten, lab grown (by choice or not) or otherwise, is going to create a lot of societal strife and suffering. How does self-eating contribute to suffering? See reason 2.

2 - People who consume others or themselves cannot be guaranteed to be devoid of sociopathic characteristics. Even if someone is just eating themselves, it blurs the line between food source and community member.

I think it is the same as people who smoke or cut themselves to relieve stress—yes, whatever you’re doing is your choice and seemingly only affecting you. However, the second hand smoke/scarring in the case of the self-cannibal is their poor judgment and poor impulse control. We expect society members to exercise better judgment and impulse control because the way they think impacts everyone around them.

Why does self-cannibalism seem like poor judgment? Think again of someone who cuts themselves to relieve stress. The way you treat your yourself, including your body, is a reflection of your state of mind. Only a narcissist would say that they’re in complete control of their mind, including the subconscious part, and so their self-eating will be harmless and not result in any bad behavior towards others, ever. We already know vegetarians have more empathy than meat eaters: psychologytoday.com/…/brain-scans-show-vegetarian…

As mentioned, we have historically always treated animal sources of nutrition with disdain, contempt and cruelty. If someone feels that it’s okay for them to eat themselves using lab grown meat, I worry what kind of psychological interplay justifies that decision for them. Do they hate themselves? Is this self-harm? What will their interactions with other people be like after doing this?

So, yes autonomy and self-actualization is an inherent right of cognitively advanced beings. But they lose that right the second it starts impacting someone else’s self-actualization.

In short, even self-cannibalism is unethical because society wants members who are not sociopaths and who won’t contribute to the suffering of other members.

x4740N ,

Stop brigading posts nifty

People will eat meat if they want to, you can’t stop them and at the end of the day brigading annoys people and disrupts social media

It’s the exact same thing you and your group did on reddit

Just stop brigading posts and stop mass downvoting any posts that contain meat, I’ve looked at the vote ratios of posts in food subs enough to know that it is being done

areyouevenreal ,

How is this any way self-harm? To be clear we aren’t talking about growing a whole person here as you seem to be confused. We are talking about a few cells in a petri dish or vat. This is all just psychobabble nonsense. You’re the one here who shouldn’t be in polite society.

nifty ,
@nifty@lemmy.world avatar

How can you qualify that it’s not self harm? Maybe we need to do brain scan study of what it looks like for people who cut themselves vs those who eat meat grown from their cells.

NicolaHaskell ,

There’s bacteria that grow in the roots of legumes that are capable of capturing gaseous nitrogen. That nitrogen makes its way to the soil, where the trees can suck it up to produce protein, like sunflower seeds. I eat those and by the time I urinate and die the nitrogen has been so concentrated within me that I burn a small hole in the ground for the fungus, sun, and time to decay and heal.

If I could photosynthesize the carbs needed to bootstrap this operation I would. If I could plant a piece of myself and feed it rainwater and atmospheric nitrogen to grow a steak I would. If I could leave behind shelter I wood.

devAlot ,

fetal bovine serum (FBS)… is derived from the blood of calf fetuses after their pregnant mothers are slaughtered by the meat or dairy industry.

I did not know this… and after reading the wiki, I found it rather disturbing…

The first stage of the production process for FBS is the harvesting of blood from the bovine fetus after the fetus is removed from the slaughtered cow. The fetus dies from the lack of oxygen by remaining in the protective environment of the uterus for a minimum of 15–20 minutes after the cow is dead…

roguetrick ,

The whole point of this art project is to suggest that using expired human blood serum is acceptable for growing lab meat btw. That’s what they used to culture the cheek cells. Took them several months to grow that amount though and cheek cells have very different requirements to muscle cells, so I dunno why they were presenting it as an option. Guess that’s why it was an art project and not a presentation at a conference.

roguetrick , (edited )

It’s unethical because you can’t safely perform muscle biopsies at home, thus it is a violation of the duty of care, and culturing stratified squamous epithelium and calling it meat(and steak no less) is lying without any benefit to others, which is a fundamental ethical violation.

hungryphrog ,

But couldn’t you just grow one steak and then take cells from it to grow more?

AbidingOhmsLaw ,

soylent me?

Fleur__ ,
@Fleur__@lemmy.world avatar

Anyone who thinks this is okay can suck my lab grown dick

Binette ,

Careful. Might create a fetish here.

thenextguy ,

If you don’t eat your meat, how can you have any pudding?

bitwaba ,

You don’t wanna eat your own lab grown asshole?

BudgetBandit ,

Is this considered vegan meat?

bam13302 ,

Likely depends on what’s needed/used as feed

v4ld1z ,
@v4ld1z@lemmy.zip avatar

As vegan as it gets, I’d wager. You need to take an initial sample to cultivate the meat from, which obviously isn’t vegan, but to my knowledge, the rest doesn’t require any further samples

volvoxvsmarla ,

Can’t speak for this specific kit but in general: A big problem with lab grown meat and cell tissue culture is that to grow cells in vitro you usually need fetal calf serum. That’s a liquid from, well, cow abortions basically, that contains a plethora of different molecules like growth factors and mediators. As far as I know, there is no vegan alternative to this yet. We are talking about a liquid here whose composition is really complex, so it’s a really big task to create a plant based FCS alternative that performs just as well.

Tldr: probably the set contains a liquid made from cows.

Teppichbrand ,

Yes is it, as no animal is harmed:
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”

roguetrick ,

This one is considered vegan because it used expired human blood cells, but calling a cheek culture meat is beyond the pale.

x4740N ,

What about this post has anything to do with vеgаnism BudgetBandit

bdonvr ,

Completely ethical why would it not be?

BruceTwarzen ,

That’ like losing a finger and go: yeah, i’ll eat that.

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

Which I would classify as pretty weird, but not really unethical. Besides, I think the comparison doesn’t fully work - it’s more like, growing a lump on your body somewhere, having it removed, and saying “hey, can I eat that?”. Which I would also classify as weird, but not unethical.

TheEEEdiot ,

A little gross too, but not unethical. Like eating boogers.

tobogganablaze ,

It’s not like they can check what kinds of cells you put in. No need to made this weird by cultivating human meat.

volvoxvsmarla ,

The kit likely is optimized for human muscle cells and might not perform as well with other human cells or muscle cells from another species or even not at all. The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate. I doubt that your refrigerated steak has viable cells.

tobogganablaze ,

I don’t think the requiernments for mammalian muscles cells are that different from each other. It might be optimized for a specific animal, but I’m pretty sure it will still work in general or it would only take very small adjustments to make it work for a different mammal.

The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate

Yeah, you’d need a live or very recently deceased cow. But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter. And once this method is viable and widespread enough there will probably “biopsy cows” that just get pricked for cell samples all day.

volvoxvsmarla ,

But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter.

It’s a DIY kit for layers to play around at home. I don’t know where I would obtain samples before or during regular slaughter for my 49,99€ kit from Amazon tbh

tobogganablaze ,

Ask a local farm or butchers shop for example.

But yeah, it’s probalby more of a toy and I doubt that growning your own steak at home will catch on. You need industrial scale meat cultivation if you want to compete with the current convinence and price of meat.

LotrOrc ,

I would be worried about disease first, but if it’s your own cells maybe there’s less chance? Prions are terrifying

My second question would be taste

If there’s no disease and it tastes good then fuck yeah all in

blindbunny ,

Theoretically, if you don’t consume any of spine or nervous system, you should be good.

filcuk ,

I can’t grow me a spine steak?
What even is the point then

SkunkWorkz ,

Those cannibals who got prions ate human brain.

areyouevenreal ,

Unless you already have prions from CJD you can’t catch Kuru by eating yourself. You have to actually eat someone who already has prions to catch it. Even then you have to eat nervous system tissue to be at a significant risk.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical. I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird, but not unethical.

Decoy321 ,

I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird,

I mean, it’s basically homemade spam. It’s kinda weird.

DarthFrodo ,

To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical.

I think most people would actually consider factory farming unethical, they just put the blame on the producers for treating animals like shit. And the producers are locked into a race to the bottom for competitive prices, so they’d blame the customers/market conditions.

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