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ByteOnBikes ,

Not a single person sharing the xkcd comic about standards? Well I’m not doing it.

helpImTrappedOnline ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7decc030-73d9-4f8a-90df-350a372c263e.png

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Why is screw DLC legal? Why are people ok with companies preventing people from working in their own devices?

Olhonestjim ,

Tamper proof is to prevent random idiots from messing with your stuff.

Bertuccio ,

Random idiots that don’t know hardware stores exist

Olhonestjim ,

Once they’re determined to fuck with your stuff, they’re no longer random. It’s just to delay the occasional dingleberry with a multi tool until they get distracted and forget. “Huh, it doesn’t fit. Oh well, Tik Tok it is.”

Corkyskog ,
@Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

Every lock can be broken. My step grandfather would use tapper proof screws to board up his lake house for winter. Otherwise you risk some drunk ice fishing fuck breaking into your house.

If someone really wanted to get in, it doesn’t really matter what fasteners you use, they would just cut the wood. It just prevents common vandals that happen to have a screwdriver, not determined criminals.

Duamerthrax ,

Tamper resistant torx is still a weird niche. Tamper resistant slotted for bathroom stalls makes sense because a person with a coin could disassemble a whole row of stalls without any effort, but if you’re carrying around a torx bit, you might as well be carrying around a security bit.

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

hydrospanner ,

For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.

I’d guess that was some sort of safety standard designed to protect vehicle owners from themselves.

As Torx gets more and more common, it’s presence is less and less likely to be a serious hurdle, so the security screws are a simple way for them to sort of say to the owner “don’t mess with the stuff below this”. If they want to, they still can, but it’s a specific effort at that point…so Ford can say they’ve implemented a safety measure. Might even be some sort of government standard too, where using a less common fastener style brings them into compliance without needing some sort of even less accessible design, like a sealed off system.

nexguy ,
@nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

You can turn a tamper proof screw into a regular screw by using a flat head as a lever and breaking off the center post. Harder to do the bigger the screw is.

lightnsfw ,

Who said we are? It’s up to Congress to regulate things like that and they don’t know shit about fuck. Unless someone “lobbies” them to do it of course.

Tehdastehdas ,
@Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world avatar

The EU should fine companies for introducing new standards that break old standards. Or any shit standards like Toslink: lemmy.world/comment/10671314 . Standardization organizations shouldn’t be sleeping through all this shit.

EddoWagt ,

I never realised how stupid it is that toslink can only plug in 1 way

amenji ,

I don’t use screw drivers enough to know what these are for. But from a programmer’s standpoint, punishing people to deviate away from standard may cause more harm than good, no?

Suppose it’s easier/cheaper/more effective to deviate a bit from standard, why should I be punished to do things a bit differently?

whoreticulture ,

Think about all the micro USB, lightning cables, USB cables etc. In programming it’s different, but for this stuff it’s a waste of money and actual resources.

monotremata ,

One issue is that it can be leveraged to maintain a monopoly. Microsoft famously made a bunch of small modifications to the HTML standard, so that web sites that wanted to work with MS Internet Explorer had to write custom versions to be compatible. But because so many people just used IE because it was bundled with Windows, those “extensions” started to become their own standard, so that then other browsers had to adopt MS’s idiosyncrasies in order to be compatible with the sites, which in turn harmed standardization itself. They even had a term for this technique: “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.” It nearly worked for them until Google pushed them out with Chrome. Microsoft tried to do the same thing again with Java until the government got involved.

It’s complicated, certainly, but there are legitimate cases where “just a little tweak” can be quite a big problem for a standard.

amenji ,

Thanks for the explanation.

rainynight65 ,

Why does Torx Plus have six teeth but tamper-resistant Torx Plus has five? Whereas ‘what the fuck is this’ basically looks like it should be tamper-resistant Torx Plus?

renzev OP ,

I guess they wanted to make the screws even more tamper-resistant? With the standard Torx Tamper-Resistant screws, they could often be bypassed by chiseling the pin away with a flathead and a hammer, and then using a standard Torx driver. Can’t do that with the pentalobular design!

Rubanski ,

Torx is the 🐐! Phillips are just terrible, I prefer slotted over Phillips. You can slip out quite easily with slotted but if you are in there they work ok.

BruceTwarzen ,

Phillips are horrible. You need to have 20 different ones that look all the same and you have to try them multiple times to figure out which slip the least. The post and people with no clue make it seem like they make new torx every day to fuck with people. If you have a 15, 20 and 25 torx bit you can use most torx screws out there. If you work on small applications you need a 10 and below. If you use massive screws you ned a 30 and a 40.

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

Torx drivers are forward compatible with Torx plus screws

qjkxbmwvz ,

+1 for hex, but that’s in a lab setting — climate controlled environment, generally not high torque, pretty benign conditions. But even that is fraught with metric-vs.-imperial mix ups.

nickwitha_k ,

But even that is fraught with metric-vs.-imperial mix ups.

Get a set of rotary broaches in the nearest metric size up from the imperial ones and remove the problem.

DJDarren ,

The key is to drag the US into the future along with literally everyone but Liberia and Myanmar.

Xeroxchasechase ,

Plus what?!

HootinNHollerin ,

Torx++

Not to be confused with Torx#

Somethingcheezie ,

Fuck you all!! I’m not arguing about this again :(

But I found this interesting.

thoughtco.com/history-of-screws-and-screwdrivers-…

blindbunny ,

I hate torx and my superduke is covered in those fucking things

Xylight ,
@Xylight@lemm.ee avatar

The “wtf is this?” is settings, obviously.

kamenlady ,
@kamenlady@lemmy.world avatar

Unexpected lonesome German

Ledivin ,

Why is tamper-resistant torx plus the only one that’s 5-pronged?

Cort ,

Apple?

sus ,

because the goal of tamper resistance is to make it harder to unscrew without apple’s approval

TheRealKuni ,

To make it even less likely that someone will be able to get it unscrewed without having the right set.

They’re not perfect, obviously, but they do harden a target more than regular Torx.

I use tamper resistant screws to keep an AirTag on my eBike to discourage its removal. Obviously a determined thief could remove it, but lots of stolen bikes get abandoned anyway. My hope is that if it gets stolen it gets abandoned and I can find it then.

Ledivin ,

Okay, then a slightly different question: why aren’t tamper-resistant torx (non-plus) 5-prong?

UncleGrandPa ,

And how many of these are needed by the dictates of their use VS how many are needed to restrict your access?

RagingRobot ,

When you buy the screws they usually come with a drill bit that fits them

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