Fighting games? Street Fighter 6, The King of Fighters XV and Guilty Gear Strive all have crossplay, are pretty recent and good fun even if you don’t want to fully dedicate yourselves to it.
Never played it but heard good things about it. Is it similar to Mordhau? If it is, I second your recommendation, because I played that game with friends and had a ton of fun.
It’s a lot closer to a typical fighting game than Mordhau, TBH. Combat is more structured around “moves” that you have rather than being able to just drag a weapon around wherever.
I really wish more indies could take on the no-sales policy. It’d give me tons more peace of mind to buy a game when I actually want to play it, rather than always waiting and doing weird backlog hoarding when Valve decide it’s wallet-opening-time.
But as the video shows, the policy was a risk for Wube even back in the day – it’s an even bigger risk now that everyone and their dog expects to wait for the sale, and especially if you happen to have a game that’s not quite as incredibly popular as Factorio.
It’s not exactly the same thing, but itch.io allow developers to have a “reverse sale”, where the price goes up for a given period. It was mostly a joke feature, perhaps intended to provoke a little thought about sales culture.
Factorio is in the minority IMO. My experience has been that indie games will often, say that they probablely wont do sales as a way to engourage purchases during beta and then a bit after release when there are potential financial benefits on the line they do sales anyway. I am totally not speaking from first hand experience /s.
This game gets universal praise and I’d love to play it but as a PC gamer I refuse to as I wouldn’t want to support a dev who not only never does sales but raises the price because of “inflation”
Me, I wish more games respected my time like that, instead of costing 40$ and going on 20% sale every few weeks, leaving me to hunt bargain bins to be able to get it at its “efficient” price.
I don’t really understand your take. They sold the game cheap after 7 years of development and it’s still a really good value after the increases in price. I couldn’t praise the developers and how they run this game / business enough.
Factorio returns an ever increasing value for the money due to the continuous effort the developers have put in especially on modding, and on the ever expanding quality and amount of mods that gives you a whole new game many times over.
I cannot think of a game that has better value for money than Factorio.
The only downside is that you will spend an indeterminate amount of time playing the game and when you think your finally done, there is another game changing mod that will give you another full and even longer gameplay, for free.
There’sa free demo you can download to try it out and see if it’s something you’d value.
Does the value you get of the game change depending on which time of the year you buy it?
Actually, the only change is up, as the game was improving and expanding pretty much constantly from the first early release to version 1.1. And it value is going up, when you buy in early access you’re only getting the current (unfinished but playable) state and a “promise” that it will get better in the future. When you buy the finished product you’re already certainly getting that better state, so it makes sense that it’s more expensive.
A game going up in price is fair from early access to release. This is a typical concept and an expected one for the reason you stated, the company makes a promise that it will be fully released.
To me the issue is the inflation price increase that most recently happened. Typically when a digital good releases in a finished state, it tends to stay at a max price. 30 USD is what Factorio decided on. Then it’s up to 35. Sure its had updates since the full release but why should I have to pay more then the full release price because I waited?
Typically sales are the reward for those who wait. Factorio seems to be the opposite, those who wait pay more. Inflation is real I understand, but this is also a digital good that has infinite supply. I as a consumer want to buy a game, and I can’t tell what the content changed from this 1.0 to the 1.1 since I haven’t played it. It probably is justifiable for the 5 bucks increase, but the consumer doesn’t know that. I just know this game I want, was 30 bucks and now it’s 35 and still hasn’t been on sale.
The reward for getting a full release game before a sale is to play it early. You aren’t losing the value of your purchase because I got it for 30% off. You got to play it early, and I waited for a price that I felt willing to pay. (The you is referring to people in general, not you specifically)
To me the issue is the inflation price increase that most recently happened. Typically when a digital good releases in a finished state, it tends to stay at a max price. 30 USD is what Factorio decided on. Then it’s up to 35. Sure its had updates since the full release but why should I have to pay more then the full release price because I waited?
Because when you buy it now for $35 right now, you get more for your money than what I got years ago for $25. Even ignoring the additional content and polishing, you’re also getting the benefit of all the testing and bug reporting by early adopters, as well as the bug fixing by the developers.
Typically sales are the reward for those who wait.
This is just the wrong mindset. Why would the developer, publisher, valve, or anyone else want to reward you for not buying their product?
(yes, I know software pricing is a clusterfuck. But the common theme is that the seller wants to extract as much value from every customer as possible, so ideally they would set the price individually for each customer based on the highest amount that customer is willing to pay. Sales after a while are a mechanism for this.)
Because when you buy it now for $35 right now, you get more for your money than what I got years ago for $25. Even ignoring the additional content and polishing, you’re also getting the benefit of all the testing and bug reporting by early adopters, as well as the bug fixing by the developers.
Is that not the opposite? Sure I get less buggy version, but you also have how many years to play compared to me. And you are getting the same game I am when I buy it. You eventually get that content, which one could say is added value to the 25 bucks vs the 35 I spend. You got 10 bucks of content from free essentially.
This is just the wrong mindset. Why would the developer, publisher, valve, or anyone else want to reward you for not buying their product?
It’s not the publisher rewarding me. The reward comes from me waiting and getting a cheaper game then those who bought it earlier. As you state
so ideally they would set the price individually for each customer based on the highest amount that customer is willing to pay. Sales after a while are a mechanism for this.
If a game isn’t worth X amount of dollars to me then I will wait till the game is Y amount of dollars. If the game never does then I never buy it, meaning the publishers lose, not me.
Is that not the opposite? Sure I get less buggy version, but you also have how many years to play compared to me. And you are getting the same game I am when I buy it. You eventually get that content, which one could say is added value to the 25 bucks vs the 35 I spend. You got 10 bucks of content from free essentially.
No, you’re forgetting the fact that when I bought it, I didn’t know what I’ll be getting in the future. I lucked out with Factorio, but it could happen that the devs just stopped working on it, I didn’t know at the time.
It’s not the publisher rewarding me. The reward comes from me waiting and getting a cheaper game then those who bought it earlier. As you state
Who do you think sets the price, if not the publisher?
the publishers lose, not me.
And yet, it’s not the publishers complaining about it online.
No, you’re forgetting the fact that when I bought it, I didn’t know what I’ll be getting in the future. I lucked out with Factorio, but it could happen that the devs just stopped working on it, I didn’t know at the time.
That’s the risk you paid for. My criticism is price increase after full launch. If early access game goes up in price when it fully releases that is a different thing.
Who do you think sets the price, if not the publisher?
The publisher sets the price. They put a game on sale to make more money. I buy the game on sale. I get the game as the reward. The publisher gets money they wouldn’t have otherwise.
And yet, it’s not the publishers complaining about it online.
I’m a random person who has no reputation to defend. I could just as easily start over online and nothing would hurt me. The publisher has a reputation to keep. They need to keep making money. Other then that, complaining is the way to for the consumer to get thoughts out about practices. I don’t like a game going up in price due to “inflation” and a game never going on sale therefor I will communicate that.
I constantly run out of mana, preventing me from spamming my main spells and enjoying playing as a Sorc
Couldn’t agree more. Problem is when I have mana and my CDs available, my damage output is insanely high. But once I’m out of mana and CDs are off, I just walk around like an idiot lol. My build takes out basic spell too so I literally have nothing else to do but walk around. It needs a rebalance, I don’t want to have such high burst dps but a more constant gameplay with stable dps output.
Be 80 and play FIFA, it’s fine. There’s no age where you are obliged to put down your controller for the last time. But it shouldn’t be your first answer while you’re dating, and definitely not your only one.
Being a gamer, as an identity, has a lot of baggage.
Having gaming be your only interest or hobby is associated with being an unambitious self-interested person who intends to do as a little as possible, as long as possible. The recognisable games are marketed towards kids/teens with time to burn.
Imagine your date’s interest was “moderating Reddit”, “watching TikTok”, or “reading Instagram”. That’s what ‘gaming’ sounds like: your hobby is media consumption.
There’s no age where you aren’t allowed to consume media; but it’s worrying if that consumption is your identity, if consumption makes up your routine.
So it’s not actually about age - it’s about maturity and goal-setting.
When we’re younger, most of us live moment-by-moment. Media consumption offers no future, but it has a pleasurable present.
But as people age, people develop goals and interests that require more investment and focus, and they’re looking for people that are doing the same. A cutthroat economy demands people develop goals for financial stability, even if they still otherwise like games.
As we age, we stop looking for somebody to hang out with, but to build a life with.
So once the people you’re talking to have interests for the future, “I enjoy my present doing my own thing” doesn’t offer them anything. If they don’t play games, they don’t even know what games are capable of. Maybe one day they’d enjoy playing Ultimate Chicken Horse with you.
But right now, they just see the recognisable titles that want to monopolise children’s time, and assume you’re doing that. They picture you spending 20+ hours a week playing Fortnite. And there is an age cut-off where it’s no longer socially-acceptable to be a child.
It’s not that video games are bad, but they’re a non-answer. They want to know what you do that’s good, and a non-answer implies you don’t have a good answer at all, and that makes video games ‘bad’.
That’s what ‘gaming’ sounds like: your hobby is media consumption.
It’s really weird that people who have “reading books” as their main hobby are not as stigmatized as their digital media counterparts. Is it the digital aspect that turns the hobby into weirdness?
Maybe - certainly generations always assume anything that younger people do is somehow worse than what they did, and the digital landscape is a part of that. When writing slates became accessible, the old guard complained it was ‘lazy’ because they didn’t have to remember it anymore. Any music popular among teenagers (especially teenage girls) is mocked as foolish, cringe, etc.
But I suspect like most hobbies, it’s mostly the following that determine our assumptions:
history of the media and its primary audience (digital mediums are mostly embraced by youth; video games initially marketed to young children)
accessibility; scarcity associated with prestige (eg: vital labour jobs are not considered ‘real jobs’ if they don’t require a degree)
the kind of people we visibly see enjoying it (we mostly see children, teenagers, and directionless adults as gaming hobbyists)
You’re right, reading is not somehow more or less moral than video games. Many modern games have powerful narrative structure that is more impactful for being an interactive medium. Spec Ops: The Line embraces the players actions as the fundamentals of its message. Gamers are hugely diverse; more than half the US population actually plays games at this point, and platforms are rapidly approaching an almost even gender split. (Women may choose to play less or different games, and hide their identity online, but they still own ~40% of consoles.)
Games as a medium is also extremely broad. I don’t think you could compare games to ‘watching anime’ for example, so much as ‘the concept of watching moving pictures’, because they can range from puzzles on your phone, to narrative epics, to grand strategies, to interactive narratives.
So a better comparison for video games isn’t ‘reading books’ so much as reading in general, and are you reading Reddit, the news, fiction, or classic lit? What does your choice of reading mean?
So for your suggested hobby of ‘reading books’, one might assume any (or all) of the following:
they are intelligent and introspective (or pretentious),
they are educated (or think they’re better than you),
they are patient and deliberate (or boring),
they’d be interesting to discuss ideas with (or irrelevant blatherers).
Assuming everybody who reads is ‘smart’ is as much an assumption as assuming everybody who games is ‘lazy’, and the assumptions you make about the hobby are really assumptions you make about the typical person who chooses it. It may not be a guarantee, but its a common enough pattern.
TLDR: Ultimately? I think books have inflated status because it’s seen as a hobby for thinkers; people picture you reading Agatha Christie (but you could be reading Chuck Tingle, or comic books). Games have deflated status because it’s seen as a hobby for people who consume mindlessly - the people who know what games are capable of are the ones playing them, too.
This was a really interesting video to check out. I expected this game to be much worse judging by it looks but it really reminds me of some Minecraft mods!
There’s absolutely no age cut off for video games. I would even go further and say that more seniors should play video games.
But, I also wouldn’t be too judgy with people who think video games are for kids. This is all thanks to decades of marketing. Atari, the first popular video game console, was sold along side TVs and other electronics and was targeted towards everyone. But then Nintendo decided to market their console as a toy, instead of a consumer electronics product. Also, they had to pick a “boy” vs “girl” aisle, and they picked “boy”, which is why video games aren’t seen as girly.
I play on Linux, but Minecraft works well in Linux, Windows and Macintosh. There are also clients for mobile phones. You may have to seek help elsewhere for installing Minecraft, for windows I think it is in the Microsoft store so that should be easiest.
Ok, Minecraft is a sandbox game with no specific goal or endpoint. The object is to build stuff and have fun. There is a dangerous element built-in in the form of Creepers, Skeletons, Spiders, and Zombies. Creepers are the worst - they destroy your actual work. The others can just kill you - you end up reincarnating back at the spawn point. The spawn point is the location where
you first appeared in the game world
the last place you slept in a bed.
I normally play with the dangerous “Mobs” (mobile items) turned off as I like the model-building aspect of the game.
Some of this will seem wordy and confusing - really it is simple but takes a lot to describe. Youtube has “First Day in Minecraft” videos by various players that will show you what I am describing. “www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADU1ycprBg4” seems good.
Ok, that’s the environment, now the mechanics. You can move your avatar, you in the game, with the “w s a d” keys. these walk forward, backup, or slide right or left. You can change where you are looking with the mouse.
You can break blocks with the tool you are holding by holding down the Left mouse button. You will see cracks form and finally, the item will break. Move close to the floating broken item and you pick it up and put it in your inventory.
You can place items from your inventory into the world with the right mouse button.
You start with only fists as your tools - but you are strong, you can punch trees to get logs and cut down the tree. Find a tree that is not touching others and punch (hold down the left mouse button) until that block breaks - you will see a smaller version of the log floating nearby or you may pick it up automatically if it lands close to you. Likewise, punch each of the other log blocks of the tree. You now have logs!
You can use one log to craft a crafting table. To open your crafting interface push the “e” key on your keyboard - You will be presented with a 2x2 place to put items and your inventory. Drag and drop one log from your inventory into any of the 2x2 cells and see 4 planks appear in the output cell. Drag those planks back into your inventory. Take 4 planks from your inventory and put them in the 4 cells of the crafting interface and you see in the output a crafting table. A crafting table works the same way as your crafting interface except it has a 3x3 input area. The larger input area allows you to craft larger, more complicated things.
You want to get wood and build yourself a small simple shelter before night comes. The dangerous mobs come out at night and you want to be enclosed so they can’t get to you. When daylight comes Zombies and Creepers burn in the sunlight and spiders become docile until the next night.
Now - many of the things you make on a crafting table or in your crafting interface require the ingredients be placed in a specific arrangement. You can learn of these arrangements by opening the crafting book (the book icon in the crafting interface)
Reply here if you have other questions - but go watch that video first. Have fun! Welcome to Minecraft. BTW I am 65 and playing Minecraft so don’t let anyone tell you it’s just a kid’s game.
I usually hang out on Lemmy.one. I am waspentalive there too. I may be slow in responding if you reply. Sorry…
Thank you for your generous response. I’ll follow your advice… I just wanted to say that it feels great that someone has taken this much interest in my Minecraft initiation!
I have wildly diverse hobbies, so I usually manage to mention something that people around me find weird. Gaming is one of them, and since I am not just your age but also female, I have received tons of strange comments over the years. At least my being somewhat fluid in English isn’t making me stand out anymore!
I think computer-related activities are seen different by our age group since we didn’t exactly grow up with it, or at least most of us didn’t. I know I was already a teenager when my parents bought us kids a computer, and that one needed inputs in BASIC and was textbased only. And while several of my classmates had similar experiences plus parents who insisted this was useful to know for our futures (and boy, where they right!), most of us still preferred to spent our time elsewhere. I see the difference in my kids, who grew up with not only computers and related technology, but also the internet. My son occasionally played board games via an internet platform by the time he was five (under supervision, of course), and as such, video games are much more part of daily life for that generation.
In my eyes, the decades-long discussion on when to give your child his/her first mobile phone has similar roots: We were used to a slower pace of life, that as a child you carry a few coins so that you can call your parents from a pay phone in an emergency, and otherwise you had to be at home at a specified time. Play dates with school mates were discussed in person at school, and so forth. Our children are dealing with far faster pace, discussion with class mates only occasionally take place eye-to-eye, and their schedules have become much more complex and fluid. Also, they grow up knowing everybody and anybody carries a phone in their pocket, and of course they want the same. Technology is integrated into their lifes from the start, and that means gaming is far more acceptable as a pastime.
Dune (either the original AH edition or the 2019 GF9 edition)
Battletech
Descent (first edition)
Mage Wars Arena
Battlestar Galactica
Food Chain Magnate
Scythe
Blood Bowl
Twilight Imperium (fourth edition)
War of the Ring (second edition)
Millenium Blades
Exceed
BattleCON
Cosmic Encounter
Sidereal Confluence
Sekigahara
Triumph & Tragedy
Iron Ships & Wooden Men
Cloudspire
Forbidden Stars
Go
Twilight Imperium, really? I only played it once and it was the longest, most boring experience. Each turn just takes an enormous time, almost as long as a Warhammer 40k turn and I played with 5 other players. When you were done with your turn you could go for a really long walk and when you came back you wondered how the hell they just finished 2 turns...
I really really enjoy boardgames, but not ones that take a weekend to play...
(this isn't meant to insult you, I am just seriously wondering if my experience with it is a lot different than yours or if you like boardgames that you play an entire weekend)
My group can get a game of 4th edition finished in four to five hours. We are seasoned players, though. Twilight Imperium is both a strategically and tactically rich 4X game, which is why it's one of my favorites.
That said, I am not opposed to long games. I recently played Fire in the Sky, which took me and my opponent 4 four-hour sessions to complete.
I look at it as no different than a campaign game such as Gloomhaven. Gloomhaven took my group two years to finish.
Well with gloomhaven its multiple clearly seperated missions though.
My limit is at about 4-5h with a game that I've never played before. If I played the game before the limit is at about 3h I'd say 🤔
“what is the age cut off for socially acceptable fun having” is what I read. Do what you enjoy and anyone saying you shouldn’t do X, or you are too old to do Y aren’t the type of people I associate with. Just turned 30 and I never plan to stop.
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