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dinckelman ,

I hate that they make it sound, as if it’s an impossible issue to solve. It’s underperforming because new people can’t figure out what to do in the game, and veterans cannot find enough things to do. You can only play crucible for so long.

They clearly have the artists and the engineers to do this, but they put all of that effort into new cash shop skins, rather than game content

Smoogs ,

a lot of the end game content isn’t playable unless you have a guild that constantly grinds for it. And by guilds: these are guilds that are like 5 yrs old and you’re expecting these players to still want to hang around be content with grinding to bring in the newbies to the fold. Good luck with trying to find someone who is willing to teach as their interest wanes. Bungie tried enticing older guilds to teach new players with player banners to do guided runs. But that was a fail. No one has that kind of time on their hands.

Those dungeons are some of the most complicated ridiculous things I’ve ever had the displeasure of researching. Like just watching the YouTube tutorials on kings fall and how they had to speed it up and get nausea while they try to tell you all the keyhole attempts just to open the dungeon was enough for me to nope the fuck off from ever doing raids or dungeons.

And just doing companion apps to try to learn the dungeons was a fail.

games are supposed to be what you do for fun. It’s nothing but stress if one player, just one: fucks up, your whole team is wiped and you just lost the last hour or even two of play. Down the drain. You are just left with despair and hatred for your entire fireteam.

That is how it’s designed without apology.

They actually have players SAVING dungeon points on the companion app. That should tell you all you need to know about how unplayable that EGC actually is.

GoodEye8 ,

It doesn’t help that the game tries to squeeze every penny from anyone playing the game.

BURN ,

Destiny 2 has overperformed for years. If they couldn’t see the playerbase getting less happy with paying ridiculous sums for seasonal DLC I don’t know what to tell them. Everyone who’s even casually played could have told you this.

D2 has made most of the money it’s going to at this point. There are no new players.

verysoft ,

Some of the fanbase finally started to realise they were just being milked.

Mr_Buscemi ,
@Mr_Buscemi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I can’t imagine new players playing the game. I tried getting back in after missing most of the events since the 2nd dlc came out. So much of the story is gone now because they were only part of the event and inaccessible now. Doesn’t even feel like the same game when I went back to it. Tried watching a 2 hour lore video for all the things that happene but that didn’t help.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

There are new players… We just brought another on last month… It’s really not that bad. The new light stuff has actually been worked into a pretty nice onboarding experience.

BURN ,

There’s a couple here and there, it’s not like new players have completely stopped joining, but there’s not that many. I’d guess fractions of a percent of the playerbase have started in the last year.

The new light onboarding really was abysmal when I went through it earlier this year (few months before light fall) and the only reason I made it as far as I did was my brother who has thousands of hours in the game. If it was just me I wouldn’t have made it more than a few hours in before being overwhelmed with too much

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

There’s a couple here and there, it’s not like new players have completely stopped joining, but there’s not that many.

That’s typical when you hit market saturation/have an established game. Look at wow or RuneScape. The revenue comes from the people already playing your game.

The new light onboarding really was abysmal when I went through it earlier this year

You should’ve seen it before beyond light launched.

“Go shoot that, now that, now that. I’m so glad you’re back guardian. Welcome to the tower.”

My friends and I started without anyone to pull us through that mess, and we figured out what to do with Google and just clicking on things. We’ve since grown to a group of like 10ish, but yeah … Like newer people don’t really get what it was like before. It’s not great, but it’s gotten better.

108 ,
@108@kbin.social avatar

What’s new this season? Another grind fest and a mission you have to run hundreds of times, just like last season? Man it never gets old does it?

bungle_in_the_jungle ,

Man, how about you rather try to not make the game an insufferable grind fest. I love the gameplay so much, but each time I decide to log back in and give it another go it doesn’t take long before that fun layer is peeled back and I see the grind lurking underneath.

echo64 ,

the grind keeps attach rate though, it’s no good for them if you log in, have fun, do the stuff and log out again for six months

this is what all these GaaS are based around, I gotta grind this magical stick, I gotta grind Diamond, I gotta grind this battlepass or I’m losing money!

probablyaCat ,

Honestly if I could play all of the game without having to grind like a fucking mad man, I'd probably regularly buy expansions and pay for a season pass.

I love the coop. I love the gunplay. I love most of the game except the grind.But I have kids and real life shit to do. I tried getting back into it during witch queen, but the amount of time I had to spend daily on it made it damn near impossible to play the dungeons and stuff. I had a little extra free time when I did that too. By the time I managed to hit the cap, I realized I was not having any fun doing it. So I quit. Had a clan I liked chatting and playing with. It was cool. But I'm just not going to keep paying for and playing a game that just feels like a tedious as fuck job.

echo64 ,

sure, so here’s the reality check.

you aren’t profitable to these GaaS companies, you have kids and real life shit to do. you aren’t gonna bring them in money.

The people bringing in the money do the grind. it’s what all these GaaS games are. I too would enjoy if these studios made traditional games that are made to be enjoyable rather than made to keep attach rates up. but that’s not what they set out to make.

probablyaCat ,

I mean I was purchasing the expansions and the season pass. And on games that I feel I'll stick with for a while I even get some cosmetic stuff at times.

I doubt it is even a matter of them measuring the profit. I imagine that a lot of it is they (and many other gaas games that aren't pay to win) are trying to be the only game a person plays. To make them feel devoted to it. Like they would have wasted so much of they give up (sunk cost fallacy) and that by switching games they'll get behind in their main game. Because of they aren't profitable with a repeatedly paid game and season pass off of a person then they have some real bad management. In fact, me paying for a season pass and the expansions and using the server less should make me more profitable than most players except for the whales that buy all the cosmetics too. Especially when Fortnite and Warframe are f2p and profitable.

echo64 ,

except for the whales that buy all the cosmetics too. Especially when Fortnite and Warframe are f2p and profitable.

🔔 🔔 🔔

people paying for the cosmetics, and the battlepasses are the profit generators for GaaS games. Destiny just keeps their expansion setup because it’s even more extra money

think about it. Fortnite is free to play, and it’s funded epic games basically singlehandedly since, all the aquasitions, unreal engine, their store. it’s all fortnite money, it’s all battlepass and microtransactions

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

That’s because they’re only making games for the whales who grew up thinking they have to be constantly unlocking a battle pass to have fun.

The game used to just be fun.

Now we only gave the indies making new ideas.

echo64 ,

Fun fact this isn’t true! You can play games outside of gaas without relying only on indies.

I’m playing alan wake 2, and it’s fantastic and full of new ideas. Are you?

Callie ,
@Callie@pawb.social avatar

Also not gatekeeping modes and content I already paid for if I can’t afford the newest expansion, and just straight up removing content that was paid for

wccrawford ,

I hate grind, but I used to enjoy just playing D2 weekly, way beyond the weekly content.

Then they decided that literally everything needed to be a slog, and that being overpowered was bad, and they ruined my fun. I went from 80 hr weeks (I know this isn’t healthy) to 1 hour weeks over the course of a couple seasons. I still spent a lot of time after the launch of the latest DLC, but after that was done, and they upped the base difficulty by removing the effect of levels on almost all base content, I struggled to stay engaged. This season, I just gave up. I’ve got like 15 levels, when I usually have 200-300 in the battle pass.

I’m not saying they don’t have a grind problem, too, but it wasn’t what killed it for me.

Kyrgizion ,

In their defense, Destiny 2 did morph into a vast turd over its lifetime. Terrible story, terrible characters, repetitive gameplay, zero innovation. Gog is full of 15$ games with much more to offer than Destiny 2 ever had. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

verysoft ,

I think they had the ideas guy in once every couple years and then they just reused the shit of the mechanic he came up with at that time.

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Now I will say that a game company maybe doesn’t need 1100 employees. That’s just intuitively oversized, at least to me.

That being said, I cannot imagine a substantial amount of money, that could trivially uphold those jobs, is being wasted on middle management positions which will not be part of these layoffs (of course, they never are), bonuses and C-suite yachts. Plus, the company had no game release sind 2017, maybe not performing too well financially is, well, expected? That is, certainly the wise CEO put significant sums of money from the highly successful early years of Destiny 2 aside to easily cushion the leaner years later instead of blowing it all on cocaine and hookers, right? Otherwise, why would someone keep that management around that cannot even do something as simple as cushioning money? Right? 😑

I hate how this never affects the people who are actually responsible for the losses. You never get the C’s sued to take the bonuses back they got blown up their arses. You never get all the excessive layers of middle management removed. No, they always let go of the actual workers, who could do fuck all to prevent it to begin with.

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