There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

God of War Creator Is Unhappy With New Games and Kratos' Story

Despite being nominated for numerous awards and even winning Game of the Year in 2018, the creator of God of War, David Jaffe, is not a huge fan of the new direction the series has gone in. Jaffe himself hasn't worked on these new God of War games, but thinks that they're not staying true to the spirit of the character and the franchise. The creator noted that if developers want to pour their life experiences into their work, they should do it with new IPs and characters.

MeatsOfRage ,

Something about the new games that really bothered me was how it handled puzzle rooms. You’d walk into a room and start to look around then your kid would yell out “hey I think we should shoot that target up there which should knock down this bridge for us”. Golly thanks, guess I won’t get to attempt to figure things out myself then. I pretty much fell off about 10 hours into the first one because I found that so frustrating. Does that go away after a while?

lolcatnip ,

Not from what I’ve read elsewhere.

Grass ,

I can’t think of any times he did that when I played. Most things I either figured out right away or missed quickly. I went backtracking while he was in his rebellious phase and he was mostly useless as a tutorial prompt. Any scenes out of order that required him to be cheery made him seem mentally unstable too.

Sigh_Bafanada ,

Yeah, while I personally really enjoyed both new games, I can understand not liking the way the gameplay went. However, I think Kratos’ story is a perfect evolution for the character, so I cannot really understand his opinion there

rimjob_rainer ,

I can understand him. God of War 2018 and Ragnarok have basically nothing to do anymore with the original games. They could have made a new IP but they had to take the name and characters for brand recognition.

Illuminostro ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    madmax666 ,

    Amen. No one cares about freyas divorce

    Dremor ,
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    Is that a statement extracted from the article/video ?

    Teils13 ,

    His public presentation skills could get better, but I agree and support the essence of the idea. An art piece has an idea, a form, an ethos, and a character has a personality and is driven by specific world visions. To take an art piece, and just sh*t on the original spirit and forms to produce a derivative piece that fits someone else’s vision while also using the familiarity to market it better is just cynical. Corporate media is just too cynical and hypocritical to not do exactly that: twist a art piece again and again to get better market outcomes.

    He is right. God of War was created as a violent dynamical hack and slash with a Greek tragedy as background . It is not shallow, revenge stories after tragical events are a common trope. Kratos was a Greek tragic revengeful character that had a purpose and a vision , and he fulfilled his destiny. End of story. Call it pro revenge or whatever, its the spirit of the work.

    The absurd was the newer artists not caring at all about fidelity or having the courage to create something new. Want to continue god of war ? Don’t disrespect the original character and spirit and mechanic of the game, build upon it. Maybe a hack and slash about a Japanese kratos battling against shinto gods. Want to create a story with the opposite message, a completely different character and completely different gameplay ? Create a new game, new characters, and be happy.

    I already find it hard to swallow when the original artist itself radically shifts the art piece, like what happened with Dragon Ball (compare the first episodes or chapters with Dragon Ball Z, and tell me its the same thing, its not). To see corporations being cynical about art, and being praised for it is even worse.

    iyaerP ,

    the Original God of War Kratos had all the depth of a puddle.

    nuKratos is by far the superior character.

    intensely_human ,

    When everything’s deep, shallow is a breath of fresh air

    Tick_Dracy ,
    @Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    I guess it’s mostly old fellows that are way past their teenage years of angst and thus had lots of time to reflect, rather than pretentious gamers. But hey, I’m just an internet rando

    gullible ,

    There were innumerable opportunities for kratos to develop character beyond raging angry guy of rancorous fury. Every betrayal and every reconciliation was so bland after a while. The originals were one long soap opera.

    Tick_Dracy ,
    @Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe that’s what made the games successful and entertaining.

    DingoBilly ,

    Worked for the first two games then went steadily downhill. It’s honestly incredible how they managed to ressurect that franchise as GoW was just a boring crappy series of sequels by 2017.

    gullible ,

    What made them successful was marketing and copying and simplifying devil may cry. GOW’s voice acting and tactility of gameplay were far above the norm, which brought people back for a sequel. Its story was par for ps2, which is to say tolerable.

    hansl ,

    Meh. Not everything need to be deep. It’s a video games. Nobody is asking what the DOOM character backstory is. He’s there to shoot some hellspawns and that’s fun.

    There’s a place for both, really.

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    There’s a place for both, really.

    Sure, but when someone whines “Why did they give this character depth? They could have made them shallow and boring!” I’m not going to give that person much credit.

    Also, DOOM guy does have some backstory for those that care to look for it in the games. Easily ignored for those that don’t.

    iyaerP ,

    You don’t even need the deep lore hidden text and recordings for Doomguy. The show-not-tell storytelling is fucking amazing in Doom 2016.

    Like they don’t need any deep lore dumps or in depth explainations. The simple and casual disregard of Samuel Hayden for the lives of his employees and everyone else on Mars is in direct contrast to how deeply it’s immediately obvious that Doomguy DOES care about those same dead scientists and colonists just from a few simple actions.

    No long-winded explanation necessary. Those 10 seconds were a masterpiece of visual storytelling.

    FooBarrington ,

    My friend, you’re missing out on the batshit insane lore of DOOM Eternal. The game itself is amazing, but the lore is even better!

    fsxylo ,

    My favorite part of the lore is how doom guy doesn’t give a shit about the lore.

    Not every franchise needs to be deep, and doom eternal kind of suffers for being more story focused.

    FooBarrington ,

    Really? I enjoy the lore very much, but it seems more than easy enough to ignore - most is told through collectibles, so you can just breeze through everything without reading pretty much anything.

    Not every franchise needs to be deep

    I kind of disagree - I like it when a lot of thought has been put into things. I’d rather have it available and be able to ignore it than not have it available at all.

    iyaerP , (edited )

    To repeat myself from a response to another user:

    You don’t even need the deep lore hidden text and recordings for Doomguy. The show-not-tell storytelling is fucking amazing in Doom 2016.

    Like they don’t need any deep lore dumps or in depth explainations. The simple and casual disregard of Samuel Hayden for the lives of his employees and everyone else on Mars is in direct contrast to how deeply it’s immediately obvious that Doomguy DOES care about those same dead scientists and colonists just from a few simple actions.

    No long-winded explanation necessary. Those 10 seconds were a masterpiece of visual storytelling. It lets us know the stakes, it shows us that Doomguy cares about the lives lost far more than any ostensible greater good or Hayden’s justifications.

    BURN ,

    100% my biggest issue with modern games right now is there’s too much damn lore. I need to know a hundred different things to understand the game, and I generally don’t know those things.

    I’m a huge fan of Doom Eternal, and it’s one of the few single player games I’ve finished in the last few years. Too many games now end up needing to spend half my play session in conversations or cut scenes, and I realized I don’t have fun playing games like that.

    GONADS125 ,

    A buddy of mine got me to play Dark Tides and I had fun, but he kept telling me I needed to look into the lore of the Warhammer universe.

    Looked into it and realized I don’t have the time or interest to get into such a fictional universe that feels like it has more depth than most religions. I feel like there could be a degree track for Warhammer historians…

    Not hating on people who are into it. But it’s too overwhelming for someone like me who just wants to play games to clear my mind and distract myself. Also socialize.

    TrejoPhD ,

    I have friends that are deep in the tabletop 40k universe and know all the lore. I couldn’t give two shits about the story and have still enjoyed many sessions, plus the computer games: vermintide, darktide, etc.

    It’s possible to play and ignore all that.

    GONADS125 ,

    Oh yeah, I was doing just that. I wasn’t saying the lore interfered with the gameplay at all. I was just relating to feeling like I can’t be bothered by extended universes.

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    hansl ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly, I liked him better when he was just an angry sad revenge monster man. The way the games were structured made so that was never a crutch.

    That said, David Jaffe needs to disappear already.

    Rakonat ,

    Modern Kratos wouldn’t be nearly as impactful or enthralling if we didn’t intimately know his past and what he is capable of. Replacing him with another character who acts identical and had a similar background revealed in flashbacks would just undercut how Kratos acts now.

    We see him show restraint his younger self was incapable of, and how when hes holding back, its not for his benefit, but for those who are antagonizing him and his friends. HE knows he is a monster, doesn’t view himself as redeemable in the slightest, but has no intention of returing to his old ways while he has the ability to help those he’s come to care for, and also show his son a better a path than the one laid out for him.

    So while yes, ps2/ps3 kratos had all the depth and bredth of a puddle, modern Kratos is built entirely off that puddle and wouldn’t hold its own weight without the previous foundations.

    juroku ,

    as someone who’s only played GOW 2018 I still thought he was a compelling character 🤷‍♂️

    Tick_Dracy ,
    @Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Tick_Dracy , (edited )
    @Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Found David Jaffe’s account.

    madmax666 ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    doctorcrimson ,

    He wasn’t deep but he was Metal AF.

    Shadywack ,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    As someone who has played from the beginning, and seen the entire storyline unfold through the multiple directors, I was so disappointed…in nothing absolutely at all whatsoever about the new games.

    I thought it was really cool how they stitched the story back to GoW3 and developed the new character so thoughtfully. Christopher Judge seemed to take the character much further while adding depth, and being thoughtful too.

    If Jaffe doesn’t like that Kratos isn’t a mindless rage machine, different strokes I guess. He’s definitely in the minority and I think every subsequent game director did an overall better job than he did in GoW 1. *shrug

    Notorious_handholder ,

    Parts of 2018 and Ragnarok and the ending of both actually had me tear up a bit, not many games accomplish that. It was very heartfelt and emotional I enjoyed seeing a proper character arc for Kratos and his kid and watching them develop.

    I also really liked the themes of redemption and trying to be better not just for yourself, but for the people around you, I liked that Kratos has to reflect on his actions and actually come to terms with how he was for all intents and purposes, a monster.

    I liked that even enemies where made more complex and given good character arcs. 2018 and Ragnarok are so well done and I love them. The old GoW trilogy was also fun and had good writing in it’s own merit and direction, but the new games are something else entirely in a good way and I vastly prefer the character and relationship focused writing in the newer games.

    Boxtifer ,

    I love this positive note! Thank you for not being Reddit.

    Canthidium_is_a_cuck ,

    Like if Lemmy.World was better 🤣 It’s exactly the same or even worst.

    RampantParanoia2365 ,

    Sounds like Jaffe does not akree

    squirrelwithnut ,

    Welp. I don’t know what to say other than he’s the creator and he’s completely wrong.

    Canthidium_is_a_cuck ,

    But gamers don’t agree with you…

    stopthatgirl7 OP ,
    @stopthatgirl7@kbin.social avatar

    Define “gamers,” because the metacritic user scores would argue your point.

    madmax666 ,

    And reviews can’t be swayed right? God forbid there’s a loyal minority who agree with the creator

    RampantParanoia2365 ,

    You’re probably right. Must be bird watchers who bought all those copies.

    madmax666 ,

    I said the same thing on reddit and got banned. Ragnorrak was pandering garbage compared to first trilogy

    Canthidium_is_a_cuck ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    madmax666 ,

    Brave new world lol

    madmax666 , (edited )

    *they do shadow banning, how progressive

    FluffyPotato ,

    Jaffe Kree

    RampantParanoia2365 , (edited )

    Indeed, Jaffe does not akree.

    SuperIce ,

    David Jaffe is a fucking idiot whose opinion doesn’t matter anymore.

    Tick_Dracy ,
    @Tick_Dracy@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Geth ,

    David Jaffe is unhappy that his generic revenge puddle of spit character has actually grown in depth and is truly interesting now.

    Zahille7 ,

    Instead of just “man literally too angry to die.”

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    Ehh, h’s not wrong. If this David Jaffe guy is a pro-revenge type, of course he has the right to be unhappy: the writers for the new games blatantly said in interviews they completely changed the story around to oppose revenge, completely against the wishes of this Jaffe fellow apparently. Which is ironically a vengeful act.

    People don’t have the right to just change stories to suit their personal opinions and the new writers need to learn to respect that.

    Lest the writers after that change it back to a pro-revenge story with depth and good writing just to spite them.

    Blatant anti-revenge stories are bland, predictable, preachy and uninteresting.

    zalgotext ,

    People don’t have the right to just change stories to suit their personal opinions and the new writers need to learn to respect that.

    I think the new writers absolutely do have the right to change the story as they see fit, on account of they’re the writers and David Jaffe isn’t

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    They don’t, because they’re not the original writers and stories are art, not corporate marketing products.

    You don’t have the right to do whatever you want simply because you like it.

    zalgotext ,

    You don’t have the right to do whatever you want simply because you like it.

    Yes… Yes you do? Lmao brother have you experienced any story or art in the last, I dunno, ten thousand years? Everyone is just retelling an existing story with their own little tweak or twist.

    Look, it seems like you didn’t like the creative direction of the new games, and that’s fine. But getting mad at the writers and claiming they didn’t have “the right” to write the story as they saw fit (in a brand new series of video games btw, not remakes of the existing ones) is weird.

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    No, you don’t.

    You can certainly write fanfiction and create fanart all you want to. People have done it for thousands of years. But it’ll never be the original story no matter how much you want it to be.

    You are not the original creator of the franchise. Grow up and get over it.

    Getting mad at me for telling you the truth won’t change that fact, and it won’t make Jaffe any less correct in his complaint that the writers deliberately destroyed his creation and his original intent. Because they did, and they admitted they did it because they didn’t want a pro revenge story in media.

    Go look up the interviews with the recent GoW writers. Go actually do some research instead of throwing a temper tantrum here because I won’t let you do what you want.

    Objective reality is a thing whether you want it to be or not. You don’t get to decide what the truth is.

    zalgotext ,

    Dawg where have I claimed to be an original creator of the franchise? You’re being koo koo for cocoa puffs right now lmao. And the writers didn’t destroy anything. The original games are still there. If Jaffe wanted the new games to be different, if he wanted to preserve his “original intent”, he should have written them himself.

    Jaffe writing the original story doesn’t give him the power to dictate how new stories based on his work are written, and that’s objective reality, not whatever fantasyland you’re living in.

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    When your dumbass looked at me telling you you can’t just do whatever you want, and you responded, “Actually yes, I can”. Like a fucking child.

    When you devolve into insults instead of responding with anything substantive because you know I am right and you are wrong.

    And when deep down inside you felt the pit in your heart grow like a fucking maw when confronted with the fact that reality exists independently of your whim and whimsy.

    Now you don’t get a say in what is canon and what is not. Only original creators can do that. Other people’s works are derivatives at best. That’s the reality you have to learn to accept because reality won’t change simply because you don’t like it.

    Now when you grow up and actually become an adult, we can continue this conversation. I am not gonna waste any more time arguing with a child.

    zalgotext ,

    Lol ohhh I get it. You’re projecting 👍

    Beetschnapps ,

    I mean on the one hand you have a story of a father and son grieving over loss while finding themselves…

    And on the other you have Kratos fucking bitches via rhythm-based mini games.

    I really do wonder what he thought was so great about the character before?

    randomaside ,
    @randomaside@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    His tone, the way he mocks other creators, comes off as (for lack of a better term) developmentally stunted. I understand if you disagree with the product because your vision is different, but the way he expresses it is so reductive that it’s hard to see his points as valid beyond his feelings.

    With that being said, It’s been awhile since I’ve seen David Jaffe and he’s kinda got a “We’ve got Dan Harmon at home” vibe about him now.

    LuffyisBlack ,

    I’m pretty sure this is less about the quality of the game and more about ppl working on his creation without him. You can see this a lot in comic books

    Creators will be pissed that ownership has continued work on something they created without them.

    Pretty much why Allen Moore hates comics so much. Or even why John McAfee hated his anti virus program.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    What a whiney bitch. God forbid they turn it from mindless killing to a fantastic story.

    MrScottyTay , (edited )

    I’ve always loved god of war. Chains of Olympus being my favourite one. And I still love the new ones both gameplay and story wise. I really like kratos as a character and I like the story of him finally having time to reflect on his actions in the original series and trying to better himself afterwards.

    Kolanaki ,
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    I only ever played the first 2 until I got a PS5 that came with Ragnarok.

    They’re not even the same game anymore. The originals were more akin to Devil May Cry while Ragnarok felt like it could have been an Assassin’s Creed game.

    I can’t say much for the story since I haven’t gone very far in Ragnarok (and only beat 1 and 2 back in the day so my memory on details is a bit hazy) but the game play is definitely a lot different than it started.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •