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Thoughts Around KBin's Current Status and the Importance of Community Migration Features

So my understanding is that KBin.social is now gone from the internet for the indefinite future. Ernest, who meant well, simply could not keep up with the demands due to his personal life and the development issues that were cropping up all the time. Let me get ahead of any replies and say that it’s perfectly reasonable to shut down a large instance if it’s taking up your time and money or becoming a burden on your personal life. Personal health should always come before a bunch of random dudes/dudettes that happen to be on the internet. Additionally, it’s a good reminder that developing software while also maintaining a large instance probably isn’t a good idea and that you should probably make sure you’re taking a reasonable amount of work off your plate.

But I can’t help but feel like there’s another story here regarding the potential risks of the fediverse: Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden. Additionally, there should be a larger focus on community migration features for more flexibility to sudden instance losses.

I managed a community that had partially migrated to Kbin after the great reddit exodus last year and managed to continue to admin said community up until a few months ago when Kbin’s service became very very spotty. I understood Ernests’ particular dilemma so I was willing to give it a month or two to figure out what actions I needed to take to migrate the community again, but enough time has passed now that I am no longer confident that Kbin will return to even a read-only, moderator only state. This means that whatever community I had there is now completely out of my control and the users might not know why posts have stopped entirely. Basically, I have to start from the ground up which might be OK but I’m not particularly keen to start it all over right now.

So this is basically a plea to the admins out there: If you are having trouble with management and need to stop, could you please give the community a vocal heads up so that whatever subcommunity happens to form on your site has some means of migrating? Additionally, software out there should have more policies for community migration, whether that’s lemmy or mbin, as we never know when it might be necessary to migrate to a new domain under different ownership. Lastly, if there’s an option to give ownership to others in the community, please consider it as it would really help the fediverse if admins were willing to migrate domain and databases to other users who are willing to carry the torch.

That’s it from me for now, thanks for reading this minor rant. 🤙

abff08f4813c ,

Has there been any news from ernest or regarding kbin.social at all?

It's different from e.g. kbin.run or kbin.cafe (neither of which even load anymore). kbin.social appears to be broken but the servers are still around and kicking - just with no one to go in and fix things. But doesn't this mean that someone has kept kbin.social around and alive?

So ernest may not be able to get to it anytime soon, but might it not reappear in a year or two - when ernest has recovered a bit and had a good break and holiday?

The latest I've seen is from https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/1383 where two months ago ernest said he's try to fix things, and nothing since. Was wondering if everyone was just assuming it's gone since ernest has been MIA for so long - or if anyone has heard of something a bit more definite about the subject.

Treczoks ,

I just dropped Kbin from my bookmarks yesterday. I’m sad to see it gone, as it had some nice features.

DarkThoughts ,

mbin has several working instances such as fedia.io, and is community developed.
https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin

Pretty much all of the major issues that kbin had were long fixed in mbin, hence why I eventually switched.

rotmulaaginskyrim ,

Is the app support better now? Last I heard, kbin didn’t have nice APIs that apps could use

DarkThoughts ,

There's an API now, but the only app I'm aware of is Interstellar, which only has a card view, which is not something for me and I also couldn't log back into it at some point. I think Eternity for Lemmy wants to add mbin support in the future but I have no idea how far away that is. So, app support yes, apps themselves, not so much.

FarFarAway ,

I found kbin.run as well

DarkThoughts ,

Yes, that's one of the many mbin instances that you can find in the various instance lists linked on their Github page.

BlorpTheHagraven ,

I really liked kbin too. Left Reddit early into the migration and went straight there. It got too buggy to use, so I went on holiday to bsky for a minute (not my thing). When I came back, it was gone, sadly. So, here I am.

Blaze ,

Welcome back

BlorpTheHagraven ,

Thank you!

I_Miss_Daniel ,

A shame about kbin. It’s where I landed as well but eventually had to move to lemmy.world.

I wonder if there would be enough data on archive.org to rebuild your community? I guess not given users who moved might not have kepth the same usernames.

Die4Ever ,
@Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

I wonder if there would be enough data on archive.org to rebuild your community?

you can probably find a mirror of the community on one of the big Lemmy instances

Aatube ,

Just curious, why did you choose lemmy.world over mbin?

BeAware ,
@BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

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  • Aatube ,

    Huh. That's... recent. TIL @Melroy, a core maintainer (mbin has this governance system created specifically to avoid the kbin scenario from reoccuring, so there's no true founder) of mbin, which has a great feature of integrating microblog into threads (kbin in fact had more features that still aren't implemented here since there were a lot of reliability issues to fix), uses Mastodon instead. Anyways, like I said, the good thing about mbin is that you can straight up reply to a microblog post and ask.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @Aatube I wasn't replying to that post because I didn't want any more harassment from the transphobes and admins mentioned there.

    I did already ask him and he ignored me.

    https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112914020692638023

    🤷‍♂️I can only do so much investigating before I have to say something publicly.

    Aatube ,

    Well, replying could yield a different result. It's not uncommon for figures big enough to mute their mentions.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @Aatube 🤷‍♂️harassment is a good deterrent and I have 5x more followers than him...so just replying to me would be a good idea.😬

    Aatube ,

    Melroy's deleted that reply now.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @Aatube great. I'm just seeing this because on Mastodon, for a user to get notified, you have to add their username in the body of the post.👍

    Thanks for updating me.

    melroy , (edited )
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    I did indeed, I revoked the request towards Lunduke. I'm gay myself. Why would you be against me?

    I'm pro LGBT and pro trans.

    Aatube ,

    That’s great, but unfortunately bigoted gay people exist. In the UK, there’s enough to form the advocacy group called LGB Alliance. There’s even people who only hate bi people.

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    @Aatube I fully understand, luckily I'm not judging anybody regardless of their religion, race, belief or sexualitiy. So I'm embracing LGBTQIA+. I personally know how hard it can be to be gay, so I I can also imagine how difficult it would be if you were trans or queer..

    I also got a lot of hate on the street when I hold hands in the Netherlands.
    Meaning we are in general still far away from acceptance in society, yes even in the Netherlands. I have the feeling it goes actually more down hill in the recent years. Which hurts a lot to see and experience.

    Aatube ,

    TIL mentions are case-sensitive

    Elevator7009 ,

    I have seen a few people with both Mbin and Mastodon accounts. From what I have seen so far, Mbin can post to Mastodon and see some Mastodon posts, but it is… rough. Link posts not sending the body out, for one. Making a Mastodon post from Mbin goes correctly without a title and displays like a microblog on Mbin and Mastodon, but on Lemmy it makes a whole new thread for that microblog with the first few words as title. Until Mbin integration with Mastodon improves (and Lemmy integration with Mastodon too, because Mbin federates out to Lemmy too) I can see getting yourself a separate Mastodon account to talk with the much higher number of people there as well.

    debounced , (edited )
    @debounced@kbin.run avatar

    if you can, please create an issue for this specific problem at https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/issues if one doesn't already exist or thumbs-up/add a comment to an existing one so it gets visibility. broad fediverse compatibility is one of our main project goals, but not all platforms conform to the AP spec (or it's not addressed by the spec) and instead do their own thing, so it sounds like we'll need to work out a common ground.

    Elevator7009 ,

    Part of what makes me nervous about issue creation is if I'll get asked for examples of the issue, because I don't want my GitHub linked back to my Fediverse account.

    I really should just go make another GitHub account so I can do this worry-free!

    debounced ,
    @debounced@kbin.run avatar

    ah, understandable. i'm a EE by day and all of the coding i contribute to Mbin is purely for fun with no bearing on real-life, so my github profile is expendable/only for Mbin. ;-)

    Elevator7009 ,

    How/where did you learn PHP? I've been thinking of learning to try to contribute to Mbin.

    I also know very little about networking.

    debounced ,
    @debounced@kbin.run avatar

    undergrad C/C++ background, PHP is a cakewalk by comparison :-)

    maegul ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Well that is certainly relevant news! And sad to see too.

    So long for the kbin family of platforms then (seriously, harsh to say, but so long as this is representative, I reckon that spells the end of it on the fediverse).

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @maegul @fediverse yeah...in interest of fairness, I did ask him for a comment on the situation before I went public with the information, but he completely ignored me so after 3 days I had to make a public statement on it.😔

    Me asking him: https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112914020692638023

    Me making it public: https://social.beaware.live/@BeAware/112922757724465742

    I can only do so much "investigating" before making it known.

    maegul ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    Very much appreciate that you did this (and this follow up too)!!

    But lunduke is a fairly known entity by now I think. I recall many getting weird about him and his business-y linux persona shtick even before the transphobia stuff started. So while it’s completely fair to give Melroy a chance, providing a helping hand on mastodon almost just speaks for itself.

    And I’m not even saying that mbin necessarily should “die” because of this, just that it likely reflects an attitude that will not work well on the fedi over time, and probably justifiably so.

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    I did respond. And I revoked the request of lunduke after I discovered that he is transphobic. I'm part of the LGBT community myself. So I'm pro trans.

    Blaze ,

    Thank you for clarifying!

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Too bad @BeAware makes too quick judgments. The only reason I didn't respond directly is because I'm actually on holiday....

    HubertManne ,

    creator of mbin. its just a fork of kbin and its not like hes made all the commits since.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @HubertManne he created the fork. So therefore, he's the creator and the one who holds the merging power.

    HubertManne ,

    yeah I guess its like ernest created kbin and that is something but this guy forked it as part of a multiperson run project. I feel like it should be like technical creator or something.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @HubertManne but if he has the merging powers, it doesn't matter because the buck stops with him on what's implemented.

    HubertManne ,

    wait so mbin is all down to one person controlling it? No one else can manage the version control? That just makes it the same as kbins boat then!

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @HubertManne pretty sure that's how every project works in terms of merge requests...no? Even mastodon can only have merges approved by Eugen Rothko.🤷‍♂️

    HubertManne ,

    certainly not in companies. pull requests can be authorized by a set of rules which is usually some automated checks and review by X number of members of the group who owns it.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @HubertManne
    Well...this is not a company. However, after reviewing the github. It does seem like there's at least one more who can approve merges
    @fediverse

    HubertManne ,

    honestly only two is pretty scary. they really should have half a dozen

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    No. I gave others full merge rights. Look at my C4 document: https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/blob/main/C4.m

    I don't want a single point of failure. I don't want to be the bottleneck of a community project like this. Hence any person can become owner if they contribute enough inline with the guidelines.

    debounced ,
    @debounced@kbin.run avatar

    no, we maintainers (~6 active out of 13 total) have full merge power and admin rights over the repo, all it takes is 1 other maintainer to approve a PR for it to be eligible to get merged into our main branch... C4 ftw https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/blob/main/C4.md.

    BeAware ,
    @BeAware@social.beaware.live avatar

    @debounced Well, that's great! However, that still doesn't quell my concerns regarding Melroy's offer to the transphobe. He IS the creator, though it is good ya'll have a group, it still concerns me that someone so prominent with the project would associate themselves with such people.

    I have many trans friends and I cannot, in good conscience, recommend the project until it's addressed.😬 😔

    @fediverse

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Again. I revoked the request of lunduke after I discovered that he is transphobic.

    In fact, I'm gay myself. So I'm part of the LGBT community including supporting trans people.

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    I revoked this after I indeed discovered more about Luneduke behavior. I'm actually gay myself!

    So I'm actually pro LGBT, including trans. After all I'm literally part of that community.

    I_Miss_Daniel ,

    I don’t think mbin existed at that time. For a long time I was on kbin on desktop and Artemis on Android. Artemis kinda evaporated, and eventually I settled on Voyager, which meant I needed a lemmy.world amount. I still used kbin on desktop but it became less and less reliable.

    ipkpjersi ,

    I think the bigger issue is Ernest simply refused outside help. He took everything on himself and didn’t allow outside contributions, which is just not sustainable for a project of that size. It’s a shame because I really wanted to like KBin, especially since it’s written in PHP and I’m a PHP developer, but Lemmy ended out winning.

    melroy ,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Yea true. He didn't like to have outside help.

    Socsa ,

    Sort of makes you wonder who is funding lemmy.ml

    Lazycog ,
    @Lazycog@sopuli.xyz avatar

    IIRC lemmy.ml is the showcase server for lemmy software as a whole, so the organizations and individual donors who fund lemmy development also fund lemmy.ml

    They mention the bigger donors here

    Might be pulling this out of my ass, but I recall that one of the platinum donors gets their money to fund open-source software from EU.

    Socsa ,

    Yeah no $3k/m isn’t funding their full time dev work with infrastructure. It seems likely they have sources of funding they don’t disclose for whatever reason.

    Lazycog ,
    @Lazycog@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Agreed, but I must admit I haven’t dug deeper so I have no clue.

    DessertStorms ,
    @DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I really miss kbin… 😔(no hard feelings, I genuinely wish Ernest the best and hope he makes a comeback)

    I actually tried migrating my account from there before the major issues, as a backup, but realised it didn’t back up my blocked lists, which are much harder for me to recreate than my subscribed list and settings are, so decided to wait and see if anyone improved the migration tools.

    Then it became too late, and I had to start from scratch, and am now regretting the instance I chose, and have not yet had the brain space to check out the other kbin/mbin instances and find a new one I like. Until then I’m reluctant to participate.

    If anything, the last couple of months, with kbin dying and realising how uncomfortable I am on an instance run by people who have expectations from their users I fundamentally disagree with, have made me want to start my own private kbin/mbin instance for myself so that I don’t end up in either situation again, but I don’t know that it’s something I can take on, having no programming knowledge or any experience with anything like that.

    So yes, I agree with you, for more than the reasons you’ve provided, and I hope we, as a general community use these developments to learn and improve.

    RememberTheApollo_ ,

    That’s unfortunate. I switched to kbin from Reddit and really liked the community feel. That’s what sold me on the fediverse. But seeing as there wasn’t SSO across from kbin to lemmy, I had a second account for the latter as there was a lot more activity on lemmy and I used kbin less and less as the site spent more time broken.

    I agree there should be some more formal way of letting community operators know their instance is going away. However, the fediverse not having any way of enforcing any such rule, means we’re still looking at individual whim determining whether or not an instance will simply disappear overnight or give users time to move.

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    This happened with Firefish too, I was so disappointed.

    Blaze ,

    Iceshrimp is still around

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    Catodon picked up where Firefish left off too.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    Firefish is still in development <a href="" rel="nofollow">https://firefish.dev/firefish/firefish</a>

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    The head developer has vanished and nobody has access anymore.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    Development is still in progress. See here <a href="" rel="nofollow">https://firefish.dev/firefish/firefish</a>

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    This link does not open.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar
    yessikg ,
    @yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Sharkey is pretty good

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    It is! So is Catodon, the UI is fantastic.

    Blaze ,

    The *key UIs are so refreshing

    Fitik ,
    @Fitik@fedia.io avatar

    True, it's also a soft fork of Misskey (meaning that they stay upstream), so as long as Misskey is alive Sharkey should be alive as well

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    yes but sharkey rose from the ashes :)

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    Firefish is still alive - every week an update of the stable release! Why do you post here fake news?

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    I’m talking about Firefish.social, the microblog platform.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    And I am talking about the software Firefish which is still developed. So “Firefish is dead” is very unclear information.

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    Firefish the social microblog platform is gone.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    What nonsense. An instance is running here without any problems and with very frequent updates.

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    Where?

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar
    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    But where is the social media site? Firefish.social is gone and sold to someone else. I don’t know what everyone is talking about here.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    “Firefish” ist NOT a sole instance, it’s a software which is running on different servers (see the list). Even if the instance firefish.social is no longer running, the software Firefish is still being developed and continues to run on many servers and therefore Firefish is not dead.

    BonesOfTheMoon ,

    Well the social platform is gone and that’s what I meant.

    hiker ,
    @hiker@lemmy.ml avatar

    And as already said - your “Firefish is dead” was wrong. It’s only this platform - Firefish is developed and is running on a lot of servers.

    Mars2k21 ,
    @Mars2k21@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Yeah I’ve pretty much accepted that kbin.social is just gone at this point. I also owned a community there (/m/ai). I didn’t have any spammers appear, but it eventually just died since spam ruined the rest of the instance.

    The signs were already there months in advance, but most of us stayed on the instance in hopes that the dev would eventually take up one of the offers to help maintain the instance. Was fun while it lasted, and was the best alternative to Reddit for sure as a software. I don’t even know how Ernest kept up with development during the initial Reddit exodus lol.

    Honestly, I’m not impressed with Lemmy so far and I don’t really vibe with mbin for personal reasons even though the software is great.

    This whole kbin story has just pointed out a lot of flaws in the Fediverse as a whole for me. I still like the idea, but the execution needs improvement.

    rglullis ,
    @rglullis@communick.news avatar

    At the moment of writing this there are 90 comments, none of them even considering the idea that this whole Fediverse thing is never going to be a worthy contender for a healthier Internet if we keep treating it as some hippie, amateur, “community is all you need” project.

    “You get what you pay for” is still true. If the thousands of people using kbin contributed with $10/year, you can bet that the developer wouldn’t be in this situation.

    We might come up with all the schemes to try to mitigate the issues and warts of federated software, but it would help a lot more if most people understood that software developers and instance admins are still professionals who still have ambitions and would like to be paid for their work accordingly.

    Blaze ,

    Do Mastodon users have to pay their admins? Iirc most of them still rely on donations

    rglullis ,
    @rglullis@communick.news avatar

    Mastodon is not any better. Plenty of stories of instances that disappeared, admins made amateur mistakes and lost databases, moderators burn out and leave everything…

    Even the “successful” donation-based instances make enough money to cover only the costs of hosting and the admins and moderators are expected to do all the grunt work out of “love for their community”. It’s simply not sustainable, and it will become even less so with all the upcoming regulations and controls around social media.

    Zuckerberg will use and abuse of regulatory capture to make it impossible to run an instance without significant costs. If we don’t “suit up” and professionalize the Fediverse quickly, we will have no other choice to put all social media infrastructure on his hands.

    JackbyDev ,

    I’m going to say it, community migration is probably more important than user migration features. While there is no official user migration there are scripts to carry over preferences and subscriptions to a new instance. Easy peesy. But community migration is a much more important concept if only because communities are what make Lemmy great.

    Mirroring content is probably easy enough, but I don’t know if we’ll ever see a way for the ActivityPub spec to say “This Group is actually now this Group” or if that would even be a good idea.

    Blaze ,

    “This Group is actually now this Group”

    Locking the previous community with a post to the new one usually works quite well

    originalucifer ,
    @originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

    kbin was the perfect storm of single developer and reddit migration. honestly, ernest could have saved everyone a lot of time and effort had they listened to the community 10 months ago when they were begging for more involvement.

    account portability is a big topic in 'verse developer circles. i think it is inevitable at some point, but its highly complex and will take some serious ActivityPub cooperation and standards. that we utilize addresses as names for both users and content is a big nut in the works.

    in the meantime, users should focus on community organized and operated instances. a shining example of this is beehaw.org

    also please dont forget this ecosystem is still in its infancy. the kinks, they are being worked on but its still the bleeding edge of social media tech, which can be painful.

    Die4Ever , (edited )
    @Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

    account portability is a big topic in 'verse developer circles

    I think community portability is a way bigger deal, at least here

    I think if communities could have aliases/mirrors, that would mostly fix the problem without completely rewriting all of the ActivityPub spec?

    edit: I did find this issue on their Github github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3100

    and: github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4619

    originalucifer ,
    @originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

    the difference between community <-> user are less than youd think. the hurdles are nearly identical.

    moving user or community data from one domain/server to another is not hard. getting that change to propagate across fediverse and be functional is fucking hard.

    WeirdAlex03 , (edited )
    @WeirdAlex03@lemmy.zip avatar

    the difference between community <-> user are less than youd think. the hurdles are nearly identical

    As a matter of fact, if you look up a Lemmy community (or *bin magazine) on i.e. Mastodon, you’ll see it’s literally just a user that boosts all posts/comments posted to it

    I don’t ActivityPub has any concept of communities, since even microblog-focused groups (like Guppe) work that way

    Edit: not really, see replies

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    That is an annoyance of mastodon. AP is not to blame in this case. Mastodon could just treat boosts by group actors differently, but they don't

    Blaze ,

    Iceshrimp and Sharkey ftw!

    JackbyDev ,

    This is somewhat correct, somewhat incorrect. ActivityPub has a concept of Actors. Actors can be People. Both Lemmy and Mastodon users are People. Actors can be Groups. Lemmy’s communities are Groups.

    seb.jambor.dev/…/understanding-activitypub-part-2…

    www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-gro

    maegul ,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    I think community portability is a way bigger deal, at least here

    Very true. And the aliases/mirrors idea might work well. Where content doesn’t have to be moved or the addressing problem fixed, instead people can just change their subscription and the mirror community have the ability to treat itself as the primary (and not a mirror). This feels viable to me!

    Fitik ,
    @Fitik@fedia.io avatar

    @MoogleMaestro If you liked kbin (like me) I suggest checking out mbin(kbin hard fork), I moved to it a year ago when I seen first red flags, and I don't regret it

    https://joinmbin.org/

    DarkThoughts ,

    Did you not read his actual post?

    Fitik ,
    @Fitik@fedia.io avatar

    @DarkThoughts I have, but they're not the only who read comments, it's not directed only at them, it's directed at all ex-kbin users

    @MoogleMaestro

    aeharding ,
    @aeharding@vger.social avatar

    60 days notice is standard on Mastodon, it would be nice to see instances commit to that.

    Chozo ,

    Kbin is dead. Long live Kbin.

    For those who enjoyed the Kbin experience, Fedia.io has been fantastic! It's running Mbin, a fork of Ernest's Kbin. It's stable and online reliably!

    Hopefully Ernest is able to take care of himself. I've only ever had limited interactions with him, but he seems like a good guy, and I hope he's able to get back to work on fulfilling his vision for the project.

    bacon_saber ,

    Fedia’s been great.

    There are a handful of other choices, too: https://joinmbin.org/

    classic ,

    Agreed. Moved from kbin to fedia.io and it has been smooth so far. I hope they continue to evolve the format though

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    Please have a look at the smaller mbin instances as well. It is not good to have one massive server and a lot of tiny ones. Kbin.social is the best example of it, the second best is lemmy.world which just has issues because of its size...

    Blaze ,

    For people reading mbin.fediverse.observer/list

    ReveredOxygen ,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    My understanding is that mbin encourages microblogging to !random, which you can’t see from other instances. Is that incorrect? If that’s the case, I really don’t understand how mbin federation is supposed to work

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    The microblog side works the same as mastodon: following people. You cannot follow random from other instances, because it would creates way too much traffic on larger instances. Imho there should be no random magazine. It only exists for things that cannot be assigned a magazine, because it is not possible to post something without a magazine. We inherited that from kbin

    ReveredOxygen , (edited )
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    But on mastodon, there’s a feed that lets you view all posts from all federated instances. Wouldn’t mbin users be excluded from that feed when posting to !random?

    Edit: I was looking, and it seems to me that if a user posts to !random, I can’t even see it on their profile from mastodon? Am I misunderstanding this?

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    That is a very good point 🤔
    I just checked the code. Your "subscribed" feed does include the users you follow as well, not just the magazines

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    I don't understand your added information about the mastodon post...

    ReveredOxygen ,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Actually, it seems I was misunderstanding. Apparently all mastodon posts get federated as appearing on !random, so I’m not sure what I was seeing

    BentiGorlich ,
    @BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

    That is right. When you do not explicitly tag a magazine from mastodon (or a hashtag that is matched to a magazine) then the post ends up in the random mag

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