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Thoughts Around KBin's Current Status and the Importance of Community Migration Features

So my understanding is that KBin.social is now gone from the internet for the indefinite future. Ernest, who meant well, simply could not keep up with the demands due to his personal life and the development issues that were cropping up all the time. Let me get ahead of any replies and say that it’s perfectly reasonable to shut down a large instance if it’s taking up your time and money or becoming a burden on your personal life. Personal health should always come before a bunch of random dudes/dudettes that happen to be on the internet. Additionally, it’s a good reminder that developing software while also maintaining a large instance probably isn’t a good idea and that you should probably make sure you’re taking a reasonable amount of work off your plate.

But I can’t help but feel like there’s another story here regarding the potential risks of the fediverse: Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden. Additionally, there should be a larger focus on community migration features for more flexibility to sudden instance losses.

I managed a community that had partially migrated to Kbin after the great reddit exodus last year and managed to continue to admin said community up until a few months ago when Kbin’s service became very very spotty. I understood Ernests’ particular dilemma so I was willing to give it a month or two to figure out what actions I needed to take to migrate the community again, but enough time has passed now that I am no longer confident that Kbin will return to even a read-only, moderator only state. This means that whatever community I had there is now completely out of my control and the users might not know why posts have stopped entirely. Basically, I have to start from the ground up which might be OK but I’m not particularly keen to start it all over right now.

So this is basically a plea to the admins out there: If you are having trouble with management and need to stop, could you please give the community a vocal heads up so that whatever subcommunity happens to form on your site has some means of migrating? Additionally, software out there should have more policies for community migration, whether that’s lemmy or mbin, as we never know when it might be necessary to migrate to a new domain under different ownership. Lastly, if there’s an option to give ownership to others in the community, please consider it as it would really help the fediverse if admins were willing to migrate domain and databases to other users who are willing to carry the torch.

That’s it from me for now, thanks for reading this minor rant. 🤙

blindbunny ,

Damn this sucks I liked most of the kbin users. I hope they find out what happened and migrate over.

Thanks for letting us know what happened and I look forward to your moderation in a lemmy.world community.

wildncrazyguy138 , (edited )

A lot of us migrated months ago when the writing was on the wall.

Kbin became my home when I decided to move to a smaller foreign county, and I’m glad it was, because the land of Mastodon was a bit too distant for me. When the Kbin house was burning down, fortunately the next door neighbor, Fedia, was there to take me in and make things feel familiar.

I suppose that’s the whole advantage of the Fediverse. One head of the hydra may get chopped down, but many others can spring out from it.

Don’t forget to support your admins y’all.

DarkThoughts ,

I migrated to mbin 7 months ago because the issues became more and more, not less. Kinda felt obvious that things slowly went downhill for kbin.

blindbunny ,

Well I’m glad kbin was open source so the migration was easy(?) for y’all.

Passerby6497 ,

Man, I’m super glad I gave up on kbin at Christmas and migrated when I still had access to everything.

Sorry to hear you lost your community, but I’d be lying if I said this was a surprising outcome. Even back then people were seeing the writing on the wall with ernest’s personal issues, and personal issues are fine and we all have to deal with it. But as someone who has tried to run microservices for friends, I could tell he was less than a year from just turning the servers off.

Here’s hoping you can at least partially resurrect your community. And that ernest is able to get to a good place.

DarkThoughts ,

Yeah, I switched to mbin soon enough, because I felt the issues rather increased than getting less over the time.

Stopthatgirl7 ,
@Stopthatgirl7@lemmy.world avatar

You’ve highlighted what is definitely a major problem with the Fediverse - all it takes for you to lose all the hard work you’ve done building up a community is the person running a server to pull the plug with no warning.

I loved kbin social - I started out on there, and only moved over to lemmy because it was getting too erratic and it was impossible to find out what was going on. Being able to move is a great thing, but if you miss your window to move, you’re SOL.

Admins definitely need to be willing and able to have the reins over to someone else if it’s getting to be too much, or to at least let people know in advance if they’re planning to shut down. Communication is key.

jay ,
@jay@mbin.zerojay.com avatar

This is exactly why for everything fediverse, I only run my own.

lambalicious ,

all it takes for you to lose all the hard work you’ve done building up a community is the person running a server to pull the plug with no warning.

This also shows the even more important lesson: if you want to maintain a community you also have to be responsible about digital community sovereignty. Set up your own instance, or at least set up your own webpage (even a Neocities one) that is kept updated with information about where the active community and any alternatives / mirrors are.

We are coming out from reddit yet still have to fully learn the lesson about renting our existence on someone else’s server. (And, to be fair, fediverse development as a whole should be helping with that: in the least migrating user accounts should be as easy as “export to file” → “import from file”).

wjs018 ,

This is an excellent point that I thought about when a previous community I was active in got shut down on the ml instance due to some admin whims. Since then, for the two communities I run, I have an external wiki that I maintain with things like complete rules or an index of past weekly discussion threads, etc. These wikis are set up on a VPS that I am responsible for, independent of the host instance of my communities.

ani.social and the admin, @hitagi, has been excellent, and the instance is a logical place for anime/manga communities. I have also tried to keep up donations to keep the server running, but people’s lives change, not always by choice. Having some form of communication independent of the lemmy instance makes sense for those scenarios, if for nothing else except for communicating a migration to a different instance.

Elevator7009 ,

Hey, I remember your name from kbin.social and I have not seen you in awhile, nice to see you're still up and kicking on the Fediverse.

I just lucked out. As soon as I figured out what I was doing I wanted off of the flagship instance to help with decentralization, went to kbin.cafe whose admin abandoned it so I went to kbin.run, and kbin.run happened to make the switch to Mbin.

Glowstick ,

fedia.io is the replacement you’re looking for. It’s an mbin, which is a branch from kbin

strawberry ,

kbin.run too

HubertManne ,

I sorta wish the strengths of the fediverse could be utilized by having some redundancy. Im not saying every instance should replicate everything but it would be great if you could make an account for two or three instance and then get some secret to copy and paste into each other to link them up. Maybe even allow a max of 3 for syncing.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden.

Yes. Even more, any administration (and frankly community mod team too) needs to have backups in place from the start. Or at least very early.

It’s not hard. Find someone willing to be a co-admin or mod. If you can’t do that … then you’re not actually in a position to be an admin (or even a mod).

Emperor ,
@Emperor@feddit.uk avatar

But I can’t help but feel like there’s another story here regarding the potential risks of the fediverse:

It’s perhaps the most important story going forward. Rexxit was only a year ago and a lot of instances are gone already. If that’s not sorted out people will start to wonder why they should invest time and effort in an instance or community.

Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden.

It was touch-and-go for us on feddit.uk but it all worked out right at the last minute and we’ve been working hard to ensure that everything is set up so that the instance’s future is assured for as long as the users want it. Here is our most recent financial report.

A lot of problems could be avoided by planning ahead - never rely on a single Admin and make sure that funding is in place (and not being run from any one individual’s bank account - why Open Collective is very good for this). That way, if one Admin has to step down (and you are less likely to burn out if you can spread the load) then there are already others who can pick up the slack.

Hello_there ,

Also a good lesson to give up control to others. I and others volunteered to help with the spam problem - in direct messages to him - that went unanswered.
If people offering help and you might be overwhelmed, accept it.

Flax_vert ,

I think it’s important if people don’t get too attached to a fediverse account, especially right now. Although it would be nice to see easier solutions to self hosting. I’ve actually never managed to get a federated app to work via self hosting. Even if there was an instance which you simply could plug(point) your domain into, and have that work if you care about your identity.

Main concern though would be communities

Frozyre ,

We were seeing the warning signs already by the amount of bots and spammers who were taking over abandoned instances. They just posted a lot of garbage that filled up everywhere they went. And there was almost nobody there to deal with them. Ernest being out of action for prolonged periods didn't help this.

I really hated to see kbin social get mistreated this way considering it was my true alternative since Lemmy got mostly bombarded with former Reddit users that took that over and made it their own.

Kbin social is a learning lesson that if you're unable to maintain something due to personal problems, it is time to hand over the reigns. Ernest did do that but I'm not really sure if the person running it now knows what to do.

readbeanicecream ,

I started out on kbin.social. It really had a lot of potential…until it didn’t. Now, I spend my time on lemm.ee or kbin.earth (they migrated over to mbin). Account migration would have been great, and made things a lot easier, but you live and you learn. The fediverse is a new frontier for all of us. I wish Earnest the best!

Rhaedas ,

The idea of migration and data preservation has been a topic since day one, since that's a big reason why so many moved to the Fediverse. I still haven't seen a perfect solution, and maybe there isn't one. Perhaps just having a lot of redundancy (oh no, reposts!) is the only true way of protecting posts for as long as possible, and even then...

Ernest started things rolling with something that probably wasn't ready for the demand, but it was there when the time came. That others forked off from it and kept it going is the bright spot here. I appreciate Lemmy and even have an account from the first days, but I like the kbin/mbin setup better so that's where I sit.

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