Move to defederate *.ml, hexbear, lemmygrad, etc.

card797 , 18 minutes ago

How do you block an instance from the browser version of lemmy?

TORFdot0 , 54 minutes ago

You are free to block communities or even whole instances if you want.

I don’t particularly care for the anti-western hegemony, anti-capitalist, attitudes from a minority of users there that can’t help themselves but make every post political but i still enjoy the content from the rest.

The health of the network depends on being able to have a lot of different viewpoints and servers federated which each other. It’s better for users to block content and users that are bothersome to them than admins to defederate for political reasons (harassment, legal and liability issues of course are reasonable still)

HubertManne , 42 minutes ago

I agree here. I would like the power to be with the individual. let us block at all levels, by keyword, etc. Let me subscribe to anything as well including other folks block lists.

communist , 1 hour ago

I think there should be a default blocklist and defeds should be saved for illegal shit

if I want to see an instance I should be able to

SorteKanin , 26 minutes ago

Even if you block an instance, you still see comments from that instance and the instance can also still influence your feed via voting. Which means propaganda or what’s worse can still be pushed to people’s feeds.

Just keep that in mind - defederation is a more effective tool, but obviously it should be used with care.

aniki , 4 hours ago

Why not just call out their tankie bullshit? It’s fun, entertaining, and rewarding.

Is this defederation bullshit going to be the next post that every newbie makes? You can do it yourself – don’t tell me what to do.

SupraMario , 2 hours ago

Because they just ban you and delete the post. There is no way to call them out if you’re unable to respond to their tankie bullshit.

fjord_monkey , 4 hours ago

Just link to support websites to do with solvent abuse (paint/glue huffing) whenever you see a hexbear / lemmygrad post. Push the narrative that they all huff paint and eventually they’ll isolate themselves.

Blaze , 5 hours ago

Good luck defederating from lemmy.ml and losing, among others

• !linux
• !opensource
• !privacy
• !degoogle

There are alternatives that we’ve been trying to push (see the few posts on !fedigrow ):

• !linux
• !freesoftware
• !privacy

But network effect is still around.

Blocking seems enough for most people.

onlinepersona , 38 minutes ago

I think that’s the attitude people have that keeps them on old media like twitter, reddit, and others. Blocking lemmy.ml did me some good, personally.

I’m not saying everyone should block lemmy.ml, just that the argument “but it’s big” doesn’t float.

Anti Commercial-AI license

iso , 5 hours ago

No - isildur

maegul , 5 hours ago

It’s called a federation. Its design is intended to give people options. To provide a diverse network of content that people can navigate as they see fit.

The internet can naturally do a bad job of facilitating good and robust conversations.

Federation is the only cure I’ve seen for social media … where separate but connected and navigable spaces can co-exist, enabling a discourse through contrasting biases and perspectives, for those willing to use the content that way.

Can’t stand a community or instance? Don’t subscribe. Or unsubscribe or block.

Instance defederation is an extreme action and requires extreme justification IMO. It reduces the size of the network and the value of the ecosystem. Especially for lemmy world’s size … it has a responsibility to support the network.

What some loud people find unacceptable is likely interesting to some quiet others.

Differing political “sides” or perspectives isn’t enough. Politics isn’t everything for everyone. Moreover, it’s exactly the domain in which a diverse array of content is most valuable and important … because no one has all the answers!

Leate_Wonceslace , 2 hours ago

Tankies are fascists. Fascists shouldn’t be tolerated.

maegul , 1 hour ago

Tankies are fascists.

From what I’ve seen around here, this just isn’t true and seems more like anything “extreme” and not somewhere closer to the middle is bad.

SorteKanin , 35 minutes ago

Can’t stand a community or instance? Don’t subscribe. Or unsubscribe or block.

I agree that defederations should not be done lightly, but I just want to point out that “just block” is not a foolproof strategy. An instance block on Lemmy functions like blocking all communities, so you will still see comments from that instance on other posts. Also, the blocked instance will still influence your feed via their votes.

it has a responsibility to support the network

Well, on the other hand it also has a responsibility to provide a reasonably well-moderated space that doesn’t include bigots or what’s worse.

To be clear, I am not advocating for or against defederation of lemmy.ml, just want to add some nuance to this.

maegul , 13 minutes ago

just want to add some nuance to this.

All good and cheers!

LainTrain , 6 hours ago

Hexbears stay winning as always

aniki , 4 hours ago

If racing to the bottom was a competition, you’d still be second behind Yugthos and their army of Canadian-based hot-takes. The only thing you’re winning is second place, always.

hendrik , 6 hours ago

You can cross off lemmygrad and hexbear. Those are defederated already.

https://lemmy.world/instances

It's just lemmy.ml we have to talk about.

dch82 OP , 6 hours ago (edited 2 hours ago)

That’s good, although I do want to crosspost to other instances like .zip

EDIT: nonono, i mean this post to block bad instances

hendrik , 5 hours ago

I doubt you'll find many instance admins who aren't already aware of this. But that doesn't mean you can't be vocal about what you think should be fixed.

But maybe you should have a quick look at the instance list before posting. As I said 2/3 or your proposal are already done on lots of instances. And lemmy.ml is just difficult. There are still a lot of big/important communities there (and users) which we haven't yet replaced.

maegul , 5 hours ago

I’ll add to hendrik’s sibling post … it seems you’re relatively new to the fediverse. You may want to get a feel for the place before advocating for such wide reaching actions.

I’m all for expressing your feelings on an issue, but I do wonder if your eagerness is a bit premature. I myself “called for” defederation early in my time on the fediverse … and it was dumb of me.

Since then I’ve come to view most arguments around the idea of defederation suspiciously. There’s usually a bit of personal drama or a shallow opinion or people who want to loudly voice opinions without wanting to put work into making this place better. Usually, if defederation is actually needed, the admins will know before you do and it will be obvious.

All that being said … I’d ask you … what do you think federation and decentralisation is for?

hendrik , 4 hours ago

I think what we ultimately need is a healthy and welcoming culture of being nice to each other and engaging with each other with a minimal amount of drama. But that's difficult to pull off and a long process. We aren't there yet but we can make an effort.

Question is: how do we get there? Defederation might be part of that. But it's a bad tool with lots of consequences and side-effects. And ultimately the Fediverse is about connecting people. So disconnecting them will prove to be problematic. However we don't all agree on that. And it's a good thing that the Fediverse is a diverse place. You can sign up at beehaw and they have a strict policy and are happy to defederate with a lot of the network. Maybe OP is better aligned with what they do, than be on lemmy.world

maegul , 4 hours ago

Defederation might be part of that

As you say, it’s a very blunt tool and likely only able to create more civil interactions by creating a fairly strong echo chamber.

My perspective on “defederation” conversations, hinted at in my comment above, is that it’s a new “tool”, a new phenomenon etc. Nothing like it existed on reddit for example. And so it’s natural that there will be “unwise”, premature and overzealous calls to use it as though it’s the solution to many of our social media problems, when in reality it’s a relatively subtle tool best used in concert with active and relatively sophisticated community building and organising.

Which all makes sense to me. But what’s a little sad I think is that we have here a pretty good compromise between “absolute free speech is bad” and “censorship is bad” for social media, and instead of embracing it as an ideology we’ve gotten some loud voices eager to use it as a territorial weapon for drawing boundaries around spaces for everyone else without, AFAICT, much the same in the way of actually building spaces that suit people’s needs (though that happens too of course).

If one wants or needs a space that is shut off completely from what one would call “extreme” politics, that’s totally fine. Doesn’t mean all of lemmy world and half or more of the communities on lemmy should be cut off in a big “us and them” statement. Instead … you probably need an instance that caters to that world view. You may need to try to start organising it yourself if it doesn’t exist. Except, that’s harder than posting a “lets defederate” post.

hendrik , 2 hours ago

I think I mostly agree. The thing with that, we could solve a lot of the issues with technology. Give users more tools to decide what content and which users to expose themselves to. Maybe hide or collapse content on a user level. But we just have these blunt tools and lots of fine granular tools that would be able to actually tackle the issues are missing on Lemmy. And I think we should revamp some other aspects too to foster good behaviour. I don't see things change substancially, the way it is.

One good thing about the Fediverse is everyone can have their own instance and make their own rules. Theoretically that enables us to have a locked down "safe" space and an anarchic place with freedom of speech next to each other.

In practice most people don't lean towards the extremes, you're right. I want something in between. Not just a*holes and trolls but some meaningful discussions. I wouldn't want to be on a free speech instance. But I also don't want to be in a bubble all day. So something in the middle would be appreciated.

maegul , 1 hour ago

But we just have these blunt tools and lots of fine granular tools that would be able to actually tackle the issues are missing on Lemmy.

Tools could always be better for sure! This is still beta software after all! And the fediverse ecosystem is still finding its feet.

That being said … isn’t subscribing to communities a pretty good tool already? I ask because it strikes me that many here might be talking about the “all” feed. If so, that’d be a case of people just not using the tools given to them (and also an abuse of this system frankly).

And I think we should revamp some other aspects too to foster good behaviour. I don’t see things change substancially, the way it is.

Think I’m totally with you there. The fediverse for me has been a bit of a let down in terms of how much it has just recreated big social platforms without more experimentation. It’s early days and all so I don’t want to be harsh on all the devs. They’ve done great things. But it does feel like some basic revamping could be quite nice.

protist , 4 hours ago

If .zip is your home instance, why do you care about with whom .world federates?

Blaze , 4 hours ago

Good point

Darkard , 5 hours ago

Fucking hell there’s a lot of pedophile instances.

hendrik , 5 hours ago

I've had a look at it and it's not as bad as it looks. Lot's of websites on that list aren't around anymore. Others are anime or hentai stuff which might be questionable at times. So from reading the list I thought the fediverse is full of nazis, extremists, trolls and loli pictures. But when doing the research it's just a minority. Those pedos exist, though. But the blocking works.

Rai , 20 minutes ago

I dig through a bunch and have no idea what you’re talking about… I didn’t see anything.

jordanlund , 6 hours ago

I’ll share this with the lemmy.world admins, but I believe hexbear at a minimum is already defederated. .ml is not. Not sure on lemmygrad.

Eldritch , 2 hours ago

Hex bear and Leningrad are both defederated. Just lemmy.ml isn’t which I have blocked. Mostly because it’s annoying ending up on one of their communities and then having them get all upset when you point out basic facts.

AchtungDrempels , 1 hour ago

Please share with the lemmy.world admins that i don’t want to be defederated with lemmy.ml then too. OP should really ask their own instance admin though, what the hell.

jordanlund , 1 hour ago

General consensus seems to be that, yes, .ml is problematic, but also it’s not going anywhere due to being the OG lemmy. Too many vital communities are there.