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aniki ,

Why not just call out their tankie bullshit? It’s fun, entertaining, and rewarding.

Is this defederation bullshit going to be the next post that every newbie makes? You can do it yourself – don’t tell me what to do.

SupraMario ,

Because they just ban you and delete the post. There is no way to call them out if you’re unable to respond to their tankie bullshit.

fjord_monkey ,

Just link to support websites to do with solvent abuse (paint/glue huffing) whenever you see a hexbear / lemmygrad post. Push the narrative that they all huff paint and eventually they’ll isolate themselves.

Blaze ,

Good luck defederating from lemmy.ml and losing, among others

There are alternatives that we’ve been trying to push (see the few posts on !fedigrow ):

But network effect is still around.

Blocking seems enough for most people.

iso ,
@iso@lemy.lol avatar

No - isildur

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s called a federation. Its design is intended to give people options. To provide a diverse network of content that people can navigate as they see fit.

The internet can naturally do a bad job of facilitating good and robust conversations.

Federation is the only cure I’ve seen for social media … where separate but connected and navigable spaces can co-exist, enabling a discourse through contrasting biases and perspectives, for those willing to use the content that way.

Can’t stand a community or instance? Don’t subscribe. Or unsubscribe or block.

Instance defederation is an extreme action and requires extreme justification IMO. It reduces the size of the network and the value of the ecosystem. Especially for lemmy world’s size … it has a responsibility to support the network.

What some loud people find unacceptable is likely interesting to some quiet others.

Differing political “sides” or perspectives isn’t enough. Politics isn’t everything for everyone. Moreover, it’s exactly the domain in which a diverse array of content is most valuable and important … because no one has all the answers!

Leate_Wonceslace ,
@Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Tankies are fascists. Fascists shouldn’t be tolerated.

LainTrain ,

Hexbears stay winning as always

aniki ,

If racing to the bottom was a competition, you’d still be second behind Yugthos and their army of Canadian-based hot-takes. The only thing you’re winning is second place, always.

hendrik ,

You can cross off lemmygrad and hexbear. Those are defederated already.

https://lemmy.world/instances

It's just lemmy.ml we have to talk about.

dch82 OP , (edited )

That’s good, although I do want to crosspost to other instances like .zip

EDIT: nonono, i mean this post to block bad instances

hendrik ,

I doubt you'll find many instance admins who aren't already aware of this. But that doesn't mean you can't be vocal about what you think should be fixed.

But maybe you should have a quick look at the instance list before posting. As I said 2/3 or your proposal are already done on lots of instances. And lemmy.ml is just difficult. There are still a lot of big/important communities there (and users) which we haven't yet replaced.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ll add to hendrik’s sibling post … it seems you’re relatively new to the fediverse. You may want to get a feel for the place before advocating for such wide reaching actions.

I’m all for expressing your feelings on an issue, but I do wonder if your eagerness is a bit premature. I myself “called for” defederation early in my time on the fediverse … and it was dumb of me.

Since then I’ve come to view most arguments around the idea of defederation suspiciously. There’s usually a bit of personal drama or a shallow opinion or people who want to loudly voice opinions without wanting to put work into making this place better. Usually, if defederation is actually needed, the admins will know before you do and it will be obvious.

All that being said … I’d ask you … what do you think federation and decentralisation is for?

hendrik ,

I think what we ultimately need is a healthy and welcoming culture of being nice to each other and engaging with each other with a minimal amount of drama. But that's difficult to pull off and a long process. We aren't there yet but we can make an effort.

Question is: how do we get there? Defederation might be part of that. But it's a bad tool with lots of consequences and side-effects. And ultimately the Fediverse is about connecting people. So disconnecting them will prove to be problematic. However we don't all agree on that. And it's a good thing that the Fediverse is a diverse place. You can sign up at beehaw and they have a strict policy and are happy to defederate with a lot of the network. Maybe OP is better aligned with what they do, than be on lemmy.world

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Defederation might be part of that

As you say, it’s a very blunt tool and likely only able to create more civil interactions by creating a fairly strong echo chamber.

My perspective on “defederation” conversations, hinted at in my comment above, is that it’s a new “tool”, a new phenomenon etc. Nothing like it existed on reddit for example. And so it’s natural that there will be “unwise”, premature and overzealous calls to use it as though it’s the solution to many of our social media problems, when in reality it’s a relatively subtle tool best used in concert with active and relatively sophisticated community building and organising.

Which all makes sense to me. But what’s a little sad I think is that we have here a pretty good compromise between “absolute free speech is bad” and “censorship is bad” for social media, and instead of embracing it as an ideology we’ve gotten some loud voices eager to use it as a territorial weapon for drawing boundaries around spaces for everyone else without, AFAICT, much the same in the way of actually building spaces that suit people’s needs (though that happens too of course).

If one wants or needs a space that is shut off completely from what one would call “extreme” politics, that’s totally fine. Doesn’t mean all of lemmy world and half or more of the communities on lemmy should be cut off in a big “us and them” statement. Instead … you probably need an instance that caters to that world view. You may need to try to start organising it yourself if it doesn’t exist. Except, that’s harder than posting a “lets defederate” post.

hendrik ,

I think I mostly agree. The thing with that, we could solve a lot of the issues with technology. Give users more tools to decide what content and which users to expose themselves to. Maybe hide or collapse content on a user level. But we just have these blunt tools and lots of fine granular tools that would be able to actually tackle the issues are missing on Lemmy. And I think we should revamp some other aspects too to foster good behaviour. I don't see things change substancially, the way it is.

One good thing about the Fediverse is everyone can have their own instance and make their own rules. Theoretically that enables us to have a locked down "safe" space and an anarchic place with freedom of speech next to each other.

In practice most people don't lean towards the extremes, you're right. I want something in between. Not just a*holes and trolls but some meaningful discussions. I wouldn't want to be on a free speech instance. But I also don't want to be in a bubble all day. So something in the middle would be appreciated.

protist ,

If .zip is your home instance, why do you care about with whom .world federates?

Blaze ,

Good point

Darkard ,

Fucking hell there’s a lot of pedophile instances.

hendrik ,

I've had a look at it and it's not as bad as it looks. Lot's of websites on that list aren't around anymore. Others are anime or hentai stuff which might be questionable at times. So from reading the list I thought the fediverse is full of nazis, extremists, trolls and loli pictures. But when doing the research it's just a minority. Those pedos exist, though. But the blocking works.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll share this with the lemmy.world admins, but I believe hexbear at a minimum is already defederated. .ml is not. Not sure on lemmygrad.

Eldritch ,

Hex bear and Leningrad are both defederated. Just lemmy.ml isn’t which I have blocked. Mostly because it’s annoying ending up on one of their communities and then having them get all upset when you point out basic facts.

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