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So, on pronouns.

I have a few questions on how to best behave to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible without sounding bad. I hope you guys don’t hate me.

I’m just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him? Is that how I should tell people? Do you actually tell them as you meet them ? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?

How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

I’d love some help with all of this.

planish ,

People will sometimes introduce themselves with pronouns, or sometimes wear little badges with them.

There are definitely people IRL who don’t use the pronouns one might guess by looking at them. I haven’t met many (any?) people who go by neopronouns, but they are around the Internet.

You can often just guess pronouns for people, but if you can’t read the gender someone is presenting (is your new friend rocking a kilt, sports bra, and enormous beard?) it might be polite to ask, and/or to use “they” until you get the right one.

You don’t have to want people to call you he/him just because you are a man. But he/him is overwhelmingly popular with men, so it’s a fine choice.

If there is a field for pronouns, and you want people to know yours instead of them having to guess, you should put yours in there. The other reason to put pronouns in, even if people are likely to guess right, is to exercise the field for the people who often get guessed wrong.

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Cis allies usually put pronouns in their bios to show support and normalize the act itself of specifying then online. IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

Just whenever you meet someone and they tell you to talk to them in a specific way, just do it and respect their pronouns. Its easy. Most people dont care if you get it wrong the first times as long as you acknowledge your mistake and correct yourself, your brain will get used to it and you will not make the mistake later. That’s the different between someone who is learning and an idiot purposefully misgendering someone.

BTW if you arent sure about someone elses pronouns, just ask them. Easy.

shapis OP ,

Cool thanks. I just put mine up in my bio. Hopefully in the right spot.

posthexbearposting ,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

I disagree with this. It’s better not to assume or encourage people to assume pronouns. It’s better to use they/them when you’re not sure. Most of the time you can learn people’s pronouns contextually, by hearing how other people refer to them.

Otherwise, it’s better to use they/them unless you have evidence otherwise. Looks isn’t evidence. It’s not the worst thing to assume once and be wrong, but if you’re aiming for inclusivity it’s better to not assume

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah. Good point. But I think OP shouldn’t worry about specifying his pronouns IRL, but what you say is a good general approach.

grabyourmotherskeys ,

One thing I try to do as clueless old man is when I am writing a policy doc or instructions at work, I just stick with they/them.

Instructions on how to merge a branch in Git do not need gender specific pronouns.

vis4valentine ,
@vis4valentine@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah. That is just better.

jpeps ,

I think this is the most basic change to make that simplifies everything. Particularly online, until you described yourself as an ‘old man’ I had no idea of your gender. Traditional language would mean even without this information I’d still refer to you with he/him pronouns, or broader terms like ‘this guy’ etc, but to be more welcoming to everyone, we should be starting out using generic they/them for everyone.

CaptainAniki ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    jpeps ,

    What do you mean by ‘never neutral’?

    Ubettawerk ,

    Your first sentence is a really good point. Many cis-gendered people thing it’s pointless to add their pronouns in their email/bio, but it helps to not out those who are trans. If everyone/most people state their pronouns then it makes it harder to unnecessarily identify those who are trans.

    BuddyTheBeefalo ,

    I find the use of the term guys exclusive.

    shapis OP ,

    What do you mean

    BuddyTheBeefalo , (edited )

    u/t3hgrl on reddit:

    I have some strong opinions on this topic. It really is the default to talk about a group of people and most people out there won’t be bothered by it. Does that mean it is no longer a gendered term? Absolutely not. We’ve defaulted to male pronouns to refer to all humans for a really really long time, and it has never gone the other way. Using female pronouns to talk about a group has always been belittling, and there’s no female equivalent of “guys.” One of my favourite lines for when a man tries to tell me it’s okay to use guys because it’s completely gender-neutral is to ask “oh okay, so do you f*ck guys?” (Works for “dude” as well by the way!)

    Personally I’ve been trying to remove it from my lexicon and have been having luck with saying y’all, everyone, friends, you two (or three, or four, etc.), and fam. “Y’all” is also not at all local to me either but I’ve found a lot of people have been using it as somewhat of a silly alternative and it’s become more accepted (in Canada. Might be a bigger stretch in Ireland.) I appreciate hearing people work on removing “guys” from their use and it does actually stick out to me when someone refers to me as a “guy,” but I have never corrected anyone. I see this as a change I’m working on for my own language and am not shy about sharing why, and I see a lot of people working on that same change (especially in LGBTQ2+ communities) so I foresee “guys” becoming much less common in the future.

    TankieCatgirl ,
    @TankieCatgirl@hexbear.net avatar

    The female equivalent to “guys” would be “gals” imo.

    ratboy ,
    @ratboy@hexbear.net avatar

    They may be acting facetious, but “guys” is a gendered term and some folks don’t appreciate being referred to as a guy. Just like some people don’t like being called “dude”. But that’s person to person, anyway. To answer your questions from my perspective (I’m a nonbinary millenial fyi)

    Your pronouns are whatever feel reflective of your gender. If you feel that you’re a cisgendered man (someone who aligns with their gender assigned at birth), then yeah he/him is probably accurate. It’s whatever feels most authentic to you.

    As for telling people your pronouns, I think it honestly would be really nice for more cisgender dudes to normalize that. It’s pretty uncommon for men to do in my experience, and I think it would show that you want to be respectful of gender nonconforming folks. Also if you share first, it may actually help people to feel more comfortable around you, and then they’ll likely share theirs so you won’t have to ask.

    As for pronouns irl I’ve only really met folks who go by he/him, they/them, or she/her. I am not really deep in the queer community, though, and I think it’s more common to find folks who have other different pronouns in those spaces because they feel comfortable using them. It probably also depends on where you live. I live in a pretty queer-friendly town and so trans and other gender nonconforming folks make up a decent chunk of the population.

    In conclusion though, I think doing all of the things you just asked about is really great and more men should do. Be a model for other dudes; get people comfy with it because if anyone else gets weird/hostile about it you are in a place of privilege to push back on that, and more of that is needed, especially in the political climate we are living in rn

    Thisfox ,

    I don’t. Plenty of times said “what are you guys doing?” to a group of people which did not include men. I have been addressed the same way plenty, despite being cis female. Possibly it’s different in other countries, but on the east coast of nsw “guys” is gender neutral.

    fubo ,

    I live in a house with three queer/poly people. Around here, people sometimes introduce themselves or others with a note about their pronouns. But if someone doesn’t, it’s okay and either people will pick up the right ones from context, or they will guess and maybe be gently corrected.

    “DiD yOu JuSt AsSuMe My GeNdEr??” is not real; it’s an Internet troll parody.

    shapis OP ,

    That’s a relief.

    So just go on about my merry way and if someone corrects me respect their choices ?

    fubo ,

    Yeah. Like if you thought someone’s name was Joe but it was actually Jeff and they tell you that, it’s not a big deal. Just one of those things that sometimes happens if you’re meeting new people.

    OwenEverbinde ,

    Oh no, if I think someone’s name is Joe and it turns out being Jeff, I feel atrocious.

    fubo ,

    Sure, but you probably have the sense to focus that into remembering their name correctly next time. You wouldn’t go telling them that Jeff is a molester name because Epstein and that therefore they should pretend to be named Joe.

    LillyPip ,

    Exactly this. It’s just a minor social correction. Like if you meet Pamela and a few sentences later you call her Pam. She corrects you to ‘Pamela’ because she doesn’t like the nickname. No big deal, you call her Pamela and move on. It’s like that.

    Nonameuser678 ,
    @Nonameuser678@aussie.zone avatar

    From what I’ve seen gender diverse people generally seem to understand the difference between someone’s who’s just made a mistake and someone who refuses to use the correct pronoun despite being corrected numerous times.

    Sneptaur ,
    @Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

    Yep exactly! I’m trans and can confirm it’s not a huge deal. It’s actually usually fine to assume someone’s gender.

    gibmiser ,

    I think the people who end up getting upset are the ones who are isolated from the LGBT community in real life.

    ricecake ,

    Yup, that’s about it. A good tactic if you’re not sure about someone’s gender is to lead with your own: “hi, I’m shapis, he/him”. They’ll invariably follow suit most of the time. If they don’t and you get it wrong, well, you tried and were polite about it.

    DogMuffins ,

    I know I’m out of touch on this, but I just can’t imagine someone introducing themselves in this way. Particularly if you’re a cis male and your pronouns are he/him. I guess it depends on context.

    ricecake ,

    Yeah, it’s definitely still something new. It’s not something I would typically do in 99% of face to face encounters. In work presentations in front of a large audience we typically just fill it in on the introduction card at the start.

    It’s only a tactic for the edge case where someone presents ambiguously, in which case they’re probably perfectly used to it as a way to politely ask. And yeah, it’s a little awkward, but no more so that any other “polite chat with a new person” banter.
    You can usually tell what pronouns to use via normal social awareness, and when in doubt, sharing yours is a polite way to prompt others to share theirs.

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