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Is it me, or the hive mind mentality has come over here as well?

I’ve posted some controversial stuff, and I understand why I would be getting down voted for that. But I see some of my posts and comments are in the negatives for seemingly no reason at all? I don’t really care about the karma because I can’t see it anyway, but I’m worried that comments and posts here are gonna get downvoted and dismissed without further consideration solely because of the negative score, like what would happen on reddit. I suspect someone, a troll, a bot, or a misclick downvoted my comment or post and people just followed along downvoting in turn. It’s either that, or I genuinely said something bad but I can’t figure for the life of me that it is indeed bad. My prime example is my support post for commenting under certain posts, why did that get the downvotes? And I see this kind of thing sometimes on other people’s comments as well, and I’m baffled, is it me who can’t understand why something is bad, or hive mind came here too?

EDIT: it seems i wasn’t clear enough. a) I’m not worried about getting the actual downvotes. I’m worried about downvotes stopping to be a tool to gauge content. b) I’m not worried about controversial opinions’ downvotes, I already said I’m not surprised I got downvoted there. I was talking about totally mundane posts, like that one support post. c) I’m not talking about people simply disagreeing, I’m talking about people immediately disregarding a post because of the downvote count. it’s not correct to say this doesn’t happen, it totally does and… how am I supposed to prove that? all it takes on reddit is see a comment on 0 for no reason and see it quickly drop to -5

Blaze ,

I’m not sure, but I guess there is no real way to address this until we have public downvotes as on Kbin.

pogosort ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Blaze ,

    Yes, hopefully that comes to Lemmy too

    pogosort ,

    deleted_by_author

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    Blaze ,

    There is (mostly the issue tracker on Github), but at the moment they have bigger fish to fry

    lxskllr ,
    @lxskllr@mastodon.world avatar

    @6mementomori

    Voting is garbage. It's a cancer on all these type sites. Deciding the value of a post only requires basic literacy, and someone else's opinion is irrelevant. I only upvote posts as a reward to the author. It isn't for anyone else. Others should read the post and decide for themselves what value it has.

    Oneobi ,

    It satisfies a human desire so that’s why they retain voting.

    Much prefer old school bulletin forums where you just comment and nasty comments are removed and you may even get a ban.

    jet ,

    At a infrastructure level the voting system is distributed content moderation. So that you don’t have to rely on a core group of moderators to flag bad content

    Oneobi ,

    Guess it seems to work in very large communities.

    peter ,
    @peter@feddit.uk avatar

    Voting is a good thing. People need to hear that their opinion or their post is garbage, twitter and Facebook only allow you to leave positive signals which leads to people having over inflated ideas of self worth

    pogosort ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    drcouzelis ,
    @drcouzelis@lemmy.zip avatar

    If someone writes a well worded, well thought out opinion that I disagree with what is the proper way to respond? Up vote because it’s a high quality comment? Down vote because I disagree? Reply with my own comment? What if my opinion is already expressed in another comment thread already?

    nac82 ,

    +1

    Moghul ,

    Maybe it’s on a different account but at least on this account I don’t see any posts on your profile that are in the negative.

    I find it interesting how posts like these only pop up asking about downvotes, never upvotes. Does this “hivemind” only do things you don’t like? Is it in the room with us right now?

    People have no obligation to interact with anything in any way. There are people who downvote just to make the post go away in some apps. Stop worrying yourself with what gets points. If it’s that big of an issue, sign up with beehaw, afaik they don’t do downvotes at all.

    kat ,
    @kat@feddit.de avatar

    Strange, when I look at OPs history, I see quite a few in the negative. Maybe it’s because I’m from a different instance?

    eendjes ,
    @eendjes@feddit.nl avatar

    Yeah same. I see a mix of positive and negative.

    Blamemeta ,

    Yeah, federation is not perfect.

    darq ,
    @darq@kbin.social avatar

    Huh, I looked and also didn't see many posts in the negative. Then I clicked through to the original instance, and the same posts have completely different scores. Like one post was (+22/-10) on Kbin, and -52 on Lemmy.

    kat ,
    @kat@feddit.de avatar

    Let’s all make a test, what does this post look like from your instances:

    https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/5f6ff7f7-ad22-414a-b829-e379dc62998d.png

    darq ,
    @darq@kbin.social avatar

    +35/-0 for me.

    atlasraven31 ,

    O score. +34, -34.

    AnonymousLlama ,
    @AnonymousLlama@kbin.social avatar

    Coming up as 35 / 0 for me. Strange that none of the downvotes are coming into kbin

    livus ,
    @livus@kbin.social avatar

    I'm on kbin too and I can't see the downvotes OP is talking about either.

    I think we're way more sparing of downvotes at kbin because we can all see exactly who upvoted or downvoted what.

    But that doesn't explain why we can't even see the Lemmys downvotes.

    AngryDemonoid ,

    +3 / -34

    emilygage ,
    @emilygage@lemmy.ml avatar

    +2 (38 up/36 down).

    hsl ,
    @hsl@wayfarershaven.eu avatar

    36+, my home instance doesn’t allow downvotes. wayfarershaven.eu/post/115735

    Dantpool ,
    @Dantpool@lemmy.world avatar

    +34/no downvotes shown

    Moghul ,

    Just shows 33 points for me, both on pc and on the sync app

    baduhai ,

    +35/-37

    Moghul ,

    I’m on Lemmy and I don’t see any points in the negatives, though there is one post on 0 right now

    Perfide ,

    I find it interesting how posts like these only pop up asking about downvotes, never upvotes

    You don’t hear complaints about it as much but it absolutely does happen. I haven’t really seen it here, yet, but I cannot count the number of times on reddit I’ve seen a highly upvoted comment confidently spouting incorrect information, with replies correcting the information at BEST gaining no traction, but more likely they get downvoted hard for going against the upvoted comment.

    Moghul ,

    That’s fair enough, but even in that case I wouldn’t call it a “hivemind”. I can only speak from my own perspective (don’t have stats to support this) but I don’t think people click an arrow just because X amount of people have done the same. At least I don’t. What it seems like to me is, right or wrong, people will generally behave in ways that reflect their knowledge and level of interest in the subject.

    That’s not a hivemind or herd behavior or whatever else people like to call it. The masses aren’t an NPC that does stuff on auto pilot.

    blivet ,

    You see the same phenomenon on Stack Overflow sometimes. A confidently incorrect answer will be marked as correct with a tremendously high score, while the actual correct answer languishes somewhere below.

    paradiso ,

    I know for a fact that some nefarious users are employing bots to mass downvote certain accounts.

    jet ,

    I haven’t run across any content that had down votes that I couldn’t understand a reason for. Either whatever was being said was untenable, controversial, negative, or hostile.

    Humans have emotions, and certain interactions with people will get a certain emotional response. People are utilizing the downvote to express this. So being blunt, controversial, negative, inciting an argument is going to get these kind of responses. It’s just human nature.

    Try not to think of upvotes and downvotes as anything meaningful beyond hey did I make somebody smile by saying this or frown by saying this. And people frown at things all the time

    rikudou ,

    Downvote bots are here as well, though. Recently I was helping someone see whether they are downvoted by bots.

    Here’s the post I’m talking about: a.lemmings.world/lemmings.world/post/214059

    Twelve20two ,

    I feel like there’s an equal amount of people being stinkers + people trying to remind others to be chill/happy to not be on reddit and trying promote positivity. At least that’s my perception of what I’ve experienced

    makingStuffForFun , (edited )
    @makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s changed in a matter of a week or so. I can’t even believe the drop in quality contribution. It’s actually made me upset. I was so excited, with such sound discourse. But I’m just seeing:

    This. What he said. This is the way.

    Etc.

    Very. Very. Disappointed.

    Levsgetso ,

    I definitely agree. In just a matter of days Lemmy has fallen to almost Reddit-like quality and I don’t see what could have caused it, there wasn’t a huge spike in users. It’s really weird

    makingStuffForFun ,
    @makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

    I was going to say days, but felt it was just me. Literally in days, the shitposts have started. What a shame.

    dragnucs ,

    Shitposts are more appreciated than quality posts.

    freamon ,

    There was an increase in users when the Sync app went live (a few days ago). So, absent of any other evidence, I’m blaming them.

    Boggy ,

    You can see your “karma” with the lemmy client Memmy.

    Hank ,

    You said some controversial stuff and are upset that you got downvoted? Grow up, not everyone has to like what you say and if you're so needy for validation say something you know won't get pushback.

    NightOwl , (edited )

    One of the things I found annoying on reddit was when people would cry about getting downvote instead of making a comment without worrying about whether they got downvoted or not.

    Making edits crying about getting downvoted or first saying I’ll probably be downvoted for this but… I really disliked those.

    But, I will agree that it is preferable to leave a message explaining why someone disagrees rather than just downvoting. Whining about it is just as annoying though. If my instance let me downvote I’d downvote those comments even if I agreed.

    6mementomori OP ,

    I said that’s not the comments I’m interested in. I already said I can understand why those get downvoted.

    vegai ,

    Of course it does. There’s nothing about Lemmy that would prevent that.

    kat ,
    @kat@feddit.de avatar

    I agree that the downvotes on your posts in the Jerboa community are rather strange. My theory is that people who downvote your more controversial stuff subsequently go through your whole profile and just downvote everything regardless of content.

    bernieecclestoned ,

    I think the Jerboa ones are for asking questions that have been asked multiple times before

    Jay ,

    Sometimes you say things that go down well, sometimes not. If you only ever experience approval in your life, you are doing something wrong.

    eendjes ,
    @eendjes@feddit.nl avatar

    I’ve only skimmed your comments, but I think a factor is also that a lot of them are really hard to read.

    Examples I see are weird sentence structure, the lack of paragraphs for longer messages, the lack of capitalisation, and rather odd/hyperbolic use of words (writing in the same way you’d speak?). This “style” just gets interpreted as “noise” when I’m reading it, which will get downvoted as it doesn’t contribute.

    English isn’t my first language either (it’s not even my second or third!) so I understand it’s very hard to get these things right. But without sufficient clarity you will get downvotes, as it just comes off as noise.

    6mementomori OP ,

    I understand, that makes sense. I have a really hard time with good sentence structure

    eendjes ,
    @eendjes@feddit.nl avatar

    It really is. Luckily it’s a skill that can be trained.

    ribbitman ,

    Op’s question is not a question at all. It’s a scare mongering tactic that invents a hivemind boogeyman, claims victimhood, and seeks weaker minds to join his false crusade. At best, he’s looking for attention.

    Hazzia ,

    I think that’s a little disengenuous. You can be concerned about the quality of conversation without wanting to play victim about it.

    Even if you take away responses to the obvious alt-right bullshit and dogwhistles, Reddit absolutely had a hivemind problem and was largely unable to hold real discussions on any sub with any significant userbase.

    Filtering what’s worthy of discussion from bait by people with no good faith can be hard, and for people who actually want to talk deeper about issues that require addressing controversial details, even if that’s in order to refute the bad-faith interpretation, will be more susceptible to being downvoted by people assuming bad faith.

    If a more down-to-earth, small, approachable community that you can have deeper discussions with than most social media is what you came here for, I think it’s entirely justified to be disapointed if you’ve seen an uptick in dogmatic rhetoric that leaves out any room for those conversations.

    plumbercraic ,
    @plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Well that was an excellent, nuanced, comment - cheers. I have seen examples supporting OPs observation, but I’m too new to know if this is a change.

    restlessness ,

    You sound mentally ill.

    CeruleanRuin ,

    Yup.

    6mementomori OP ,

    I’m not entirely sure what this is. is this an attempt at a gotcha?

    alokir ,

    I read through some of your comments with lots of downvotes, I have a theory why you were heavily downvoted.

    First, people use the dowvote button as a way to express that they disagree, not that they think the content is low quality or unfitting. I don’t see how we can change this other than not having a downvote button at all, this seems to be like an outcome of the up/downvote system.

    Also, you seem to be a person of principles. I know the reactions too well because I also think similarly. For example, I think judging someone by the color of their skin or ethnicity is wrong, and it seems like you do so as well.

    You have a heavily downvoted comment under a post where some Russians faced discrimination and it wasn’t clear if it was happening because they were Russians or there were some other reasons as well. You noted this, and got downvoted because people think racism is ok now because Russia (as a country) is an aggressor in a war.

    People are too quick to put you in a box if you don’t 100% follow their narratives and say even one thing that remind them of others who genuinely belong in that box.

    6mementomori OP ,

    coming from r/PCM I was used more to downvotes being in fact used for filtering low quality stuff out, that being said I already mentioned that’s not the type of comment I’m talking about, I expected to get downvoted in the controversial comments. I was talking about more mundane stuff

    alokir ,

    Some people are petty and will go thought your profile to downvote everything. I’ve read about and seen some people even stalking users, commenting on every post they make. There was an AuthRight guy on PCM who was followed around and called a Nazi on unrelated subs the moment he commented something.

    plumbercraic ,
    @plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I heard that reddit faked these kind of votes. So they looked like they worked to the voter, but noone else could see votes cast from the profile page. Don’t know if it’s true, but it is a cool idea (I don’t think votes on out of contex comments are “valid” I guess, insofar as Internet points can be considered valid)

    Sinnerman ,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning

    plumbercraic ,
    @plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I’m aware of shadow banning as a concept. But this is different isn’t it? A shadow ban let’s somebody post to a community, while not letting them know that they have been banned. Clever, I guess, but intentionally opaque and it doesn’t sit right with me ideologically. As an admin, I would love this feature though. Interesting that I have a different position on voting vs posting. Maybe I have a deeper belief that an individual’s comments matter more than their votes.

    neptune ,

    I have a hard time trusting your opinion of community and online discourse if you came from PCM. That was an insular community astroturfed to push the Overton window rightward. It’s about role playing genocide. It’s for laughing about police shootings and marginalizing trans people. If you don’t think PCM was designed to build a hive mind through performative conflict, then so help you God.

    Neato ,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    Aaaand there we are. 100% of these posts whining about being down voted and censored come from fascist havens or are bigots. Lol PCM. No fucking wonder.

    It's because if you have that kind of mind, your "normal" comments might not be as tame as you think.

    restlessness ,

    You sound mentally ill.

    Neato ,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    Here's another classic post from you

    And it’s already lefty infested, too.

    Edit: the army of soy guzzlers downvoting me does kinda prove my point, guys.

    Fascists and bigots always love questioning the mental wellness of people who call out their obvious bullshit.

    restlessness ,

    Get your hysteria treated

    hariette ,
    @hariette@artemis.camp avatar

    Lol how old are you?

    CeruleanRuin ,

    Honestly it’s a problem with binary ranking systems across the board. Maybe if there were additional axes you could vote on, like “agree/disagree”, “quality/low effort”, “nuanced/trite”, etc. I don’t know how one would go about implementing such a thing, but until someone does, we’re stuck with having a simplistic system that doesn’t adequately reflect the complicated responses real people have to content.

    alokir ,

    Unpopular opinion but I think the emoji system of Facebook, Github and Slack are much better. We could have something similar with a limited amount of emojis and rank posts and comments accordingly.

    tc43 ,

    Slashdot had something like this back in its day, you could upvote for Funny, Insightful, etc, and it worked quite well. No idea what it’s like these days though.

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